Off Road Bumper and the Winch

[04Ram2500Hemi]

I'm hoping somebody can give me a solid answer on why moving the winch to the off road bumper is an issue, or if it even is an issue. Having a 4th Gen and the grill not opening with the hood is a butt pain when it comes to accessing the winch. I'm pretty set on the Road Rhino with the Pre Runner Bar and I'm 50/50 on moving the winch. I'd like to know what the experts think.

[cruz]

As long as our winch will bolt on to any bumper, I don't see any problems what so ever.

[TwinStick]

Not an issue, just a PITA. You gotta get/make new cables w/lugs. Many feel that some bumpers mount for the winch is simply not as strong as the factory mount. I gotta say, after looking at some bumpers in person, i feel the same way. (bumpers i have seen were custom made ones) Some are simply not made for or not braced for angled pulls. Our stock mount is plenty stout, it is triangularly braced inside the frame rails. Can't think of a much stronger way than that. I would prob be looking at doing that too, if i had a 4th Gen. I LOVE the fact that my grill goes up with the hood, & my G56.

[BigRed2007]

Didn't move my winch. Left the roller fair lead in place as well. It is a straight shot out the front of the ARB bumper.


Sent from my

[04Ram2500Hemi]

Didn't move my winch. Left the roller fair lead in place as well. It is a straight shot out the front of the ARB bumper.


Sent from my

I don't suppose you've got a picture of your setup with the winch that you could post? I'm just trying to picture this all in my head, and the whole fair lead in the stock place has me kind of puzzled.

[BigRed2007]

I don't have a good picture handy.

If it helps I have another fair lead on the ARB bumper.

The winch line does not contact the stock fair lead.

Sent from

[04Ram2500Hemi]

Another question I should have asked- is the fairlead on the stock setup part of the bumper on the Power Wagon or is part of the mount itself behind the bumper? The reason I ask is if you leave the winch in the stock location how do you mount the fairlead to the winch itself?

I’m sorry for the goofy questions- I’m just trying to make sure I do this right the first time.

[BigRed2007]

From what I can tell, and I am no expert, the stock fair lead is a weird size and bolt pattern. Ian pretty sure you won't be able to reuse it if you move the winch. Either way I am pretty sure you will need a new fair lead for the new bumper.

Hope this helps.


Sent from

[cruz]

Another question I should have asked- is the fairlead on the stock setup part of the bumper on the Power Wagon or is part of the mount itself behind the bumper? The reason I ask is if you leave the winch in the stock location how do you mount the fairlead to the winch itself?

I’m sorry for the goofy questions- I’m just trying to make sure I do this right the first time.

On 3g's (and probably 4g's also) the roller fairlead is is part of the winch mount between the frame rails and can't be used any other way. Leaving it all in the the stock location and adding another fairlead to the bumper doesn't present any problems IMO.

[04Ram2500Hemi]

Another question I should have asked- is the fairlead on the stock setup part of the bumper on the Power Wagon or is part of the mount itself behind the bumper? The reason I ask is if you leave the winch in the stock location how do you mount the fairlead to the winch itself?

I’m sorry for the goofy questions- I’m just trying to make sure I do this right the first time.

On 3g's (and probably 4g's also) the roller fairlead is is part of the winch mount between the frame rails and can't be used any other way. Leaving it all in the the stock location and adding another fairlead to the bumper doesn't present any problems IMO.

This is the exact info I was looking for. Thank you very much kind sir!

[TwinStick]

You need to give us some more pics. Of both sides & close ups of winch area, lights, & hi-lift slots. Thanks. The more i look at that, the more i like it. I appreciate it. I just cant see spending $2600 + lights for a bumper (that dont even have hi-lift points on it).

[djgaston]

My opinion is that if the winch is hard to access, then move it. If you can get to it easily, then leave it. The frame mount is less likely to move under pressure, but the line going through the bumper has the same effect as if the bumper was mounted in the winch. So the possibility of pulling the bumper down a little is there either way. It's not as much of an issue on 3rd and 4th gen trucks as it is on 2nd gen trucks like mine - which is why I weld the bumper mounts to the frame along with using larger bolts, to prevent the bumper from shifting.

Anyway, you get the same effect either way. Just do what is easier for you and what gives you the most protection. I think the stock winch location will be a little more exposed once the Road Rhino is on there, whereas mounting in the bumper will totally protect it from mud/debris/rocks.

It sounds like you will need a new fairlead anyway so you could try it both ways and see how it works best for you.

[04Ram2500Hemi]

My opinion is that if the winch is hard to access, then move it. If you can get to it easily, then leave it. The frame mount is less likely to move under pressure, but the line going through the bumper has the same effect as if the bumper was mounted in the winch. So the possibility of pulling the bumper down a little is there either way. It's not as much of an issue on 3rd and 4th gen trucks as it is on 2nd gen trucks like mine - which is why I weld the bumper mounts to the frame along with using larger bolts, to prevent the bumper from shifting.

Anyway, you get the same effect either way. Just do what is easier for you and what gives you the most protection. I think the stock winch location will be a little more exposed once the Road Rhino is on there, whereas mounting in the bumper will totally protect it from mud/debris/rocks.

It sounds like you will need a new fairlead anyway so you could try it both ways and see how it works best for you.

I didn't think about the winch being more exposed in the stock location. Good point Danny.

[2012 PW ST]

The upside to leaving the winch in stock location is: A. very stout there, and B. tucked up high as possible to keep weight where it should be. Moving it farther out toward end of frame just increases the droop it creates (not to mention the heavier aftermarket bumper).

I was adamant about keeping mine in stock location while hopefully making one of Ranch Hand's bumpers work with it. We did it but-to the other poster's point-mine is defnitely more exposed now with the hole we had to cut in the RH to make work. Great added protection over all from the world's heaviest bumper (Kidding but almost!) but I'm not entirely happy with how exposed the winch is now.

I kept the stock fairlead and then we welded a single, hidden extra roller into custom tabs on the lower backside of the RH schedule 40 main pipe to ensure the cable wouldn't chafe/bind on it. The extra roller is a Mopar original from a PW fairlead assembly. You can order the fairlead components individually from Mopar.

Don't even think about adding an aftermarket bumper (esp. heavy like Road Armor) without changing springs & shocks to support it. You know what happens once you open this whole can of worms....just stuff to consider.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

[04Ram2500Hemi]

I'll be honest- I don't think I'll need to replace/upgrade my shocks and springs. I may go with a stiffer setup down the road, but I don't see it being an immediate need.

[djgaston]

The current springs and shocks are designed for a 3,800 lb load, give or take a couple hundred. Adding 100 extra lbs plus the negligible leverage difference of moving the winch 1 foot forward won't do anything to the suspension. That's the same as a young lady standing on the front bumper. The truck barely moves.

Road Rhino and Armor bumpers start out at 145 lbs. That's 100 lbs over stock.

I know there are other bumpers that weigh over 200 lbs, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the frame and motor. The added leverage from the bumper sticking out is barely noticeable.

It does make a difference on lighter rigs like Jeeps and 1/2 ton trucks in some cases.

[Ducky's Dad]

Didn't Rusty get a new bumper from Aluminess for his 3G? I think he posted pics on the other board and he liked the bumper a lot. Way lighter than a steel bumper.

[RustyPW]

Yeah, I have the Aluminess bumper. It's about 90~100 lbs. The winch stays in the stock location. The cable runs throught 2 roller fairleads. The stock one, and the one on the bumper it's self. I've already tagged 3 deer with it. Can't see any damage to it. I was going to stay out of this discussion, but......I bought my bumper for some of these same reasons. And I DO like my bumper.

[Nailhead]

Don't even think about adding an aftermarket bumper (esp. heavy like Road Armor) without changing springs & shocks to support it. You know what happens once you open this whole can of worms....just stuff to consider.

Any notions I had of adding a bumper/grille guard ended right here.

[RustyPW]

Don't even think about adding an aftermarket bumper (esp. heavy like Road Armor) without changing springs & shocks to support it. You know what happens once you open this whole can of worms....just stuff to consider.

Any notions I had of adding a bumper/grille guard ended right here.

Don't worry about that. How many people have changed to aftermarket bumpers wothout doing anything else. Alot.

[djgaston]

Don't even think about adding an aftermarket bumper (esp. heavy like Road Armor) without changing springs & shocks to support it. You know what happens once you open this whole can of worms....just stuff to consider.

Any notions I had of adding a bumper/grille guard ended right here.

I promise you that you are worried about something that doesn't need to be worried about. Read my prior post.

If you want to see what a bumper will do to your truck, go stand on the tow hooks and measure how much it drops down. I'm 240 lbs and mine barely moves.

[TwinStick]

Even IF he IS worried about that, a new set of coils (1" lift for a PW) are only $440 & if he wants to help off set the weight he can get diesel coils instead of Hemi coils. Easy peasy !!!

[djgaston]

Yeah, that's certainly an option. The weight difference between the Hemi and the CTD is still greater than what any bumper would weigh, so the suspension would end up stiffer than before. Some new pro rate coils would be better because at least they would soften the suspension a little bit. But none of it is needed. The advantages to an aftermarket bumper (any brand) are so numerous, I wouldn't just rule them out based on someone thinking the truck would be affected greatly by an extra 100 lbs on the front.

[2012 PW ST]

I hear y'all, but I can tell you from experience that the addition of my ~200lb Ranch Hand (approx. 160 additional lb over stock) noticeably effected steering/handling/braking. I drove my truck a day or two with the new bumper & stock suspension before installing the Carli setup.

Even though the actual initial droop on the front may be minimal (~3/4" to start with) the change in steering & braking with additional front end drop is not fun. You also have to consider what any heavier bumper will do to PW single rate springs over time in terms of additional wear too. Not to mention ball joints either.

I know my bumper is on the real heavy end but I think you'd still notice and have similar issues with another aftermarket bumper that would be 50lb less. Maybe even just as much if you relocate the winch farther forward and lower.

As previous posters have said, adding progressive rate coils and different shocks isn't that much anyway.

[Fireman78]

You don't need to move the winch at all. Mine is very happy nestled in the factory spot behind my awesome Aluminess Slimline Bumper.