Couple of technical questions from a potential PW owner

[LagunaH1]

Hi all,

Things are progressing (slowly) and I *might* be getting closer to getting a shiny new PW.

How is the transmission cooled? Does it have its own dedicated cooler or is it integrated with something else such as the engine cooler?
How is the engine oil cooled?
Is the transfer case cooled? If so, how?
How simple (or not) would it be to add a higher output alternator? -I ask because there are a couple of trucks on local dealer lots with some pretty nice discounts. None of those trucks have the high output alternator let alone the dual alternator setup.

[nts007]

Alright to start
Yes there is a tranny cooler
Engine oil is most likely through the rad
Transfer case is not cooled and wouldn't need to be as it would never get hot enough to cook off the oil
Power wagons come with the high output alternator with an option for a dual setup in the new ones.
There is even a power steering cooler (since we are on the topic)

They are engineered very well as far as your line of questioning and you should have no issues. Unless you're looking at seriously modifying the systems.

Maybe your purpose for the truck are outside the realm of what we would use them for.

[LagunaH1]

They are engineered very well as far as your line of questioning and you should have no issues. Unless you're looking at seriously modifying the systems.

Maybe your purpose for the truck are outside the realm of what we would use them for.

Hehehe, good point. I'm actually not planning on running mine very hard or modifying it. I'm comparing to what I'm running currently (an H1 Hummer) which has separate cooling systems for darn near everything and a cooled t-case

[Snowsled]

It isn't the hard parts that are going to disappoint, it is the electronics. I have never seen my trans temp over 180 F. It is on a separate cooling circuit from the engine coolant. The truck seems well engineered to deal with hard use.

The problem I am having is that the electronics thwart all attempts at using the truck properly. Your H1 is pretty much analog. The new PW is ruined by its electronic nannies. You will not be allowed to brake torque on off road obstacles without having the electronic throttle shut down completely on you. You will not be allowed to spin the tires ever, without first disabling the traction control system. You will have to wait for the center axle disconnect to engage regardless of the manual 4wd shifter. The TPMS with flash at you an illuminate a warning light when you go to air down. You will need to have the dealer reprogram the thresholds or run 65 psi in the rear tires to satisfy the system. Hill descent control is incapable of using engine braking, it is all brakes. The new suspension in front gives away several inches of ground clearance. The auto trans programming will likely give you fits. It hates engine braking in 3rd so it gives you 2nd even though you may be on an icy road when it decides to do so. The shifter buttons only limit upshifts not downshifts.

As a highway poser, it is a great rig. For real use it is seriously flawed by the electronics fitted. I will make you a great deal on my lightly used '15 Tradesman if you want...

[nts007]

Snows led has a lemon jk jk. The electronic nannies are nasty now but that comes with all new vehicles. The argument is the pw should not have had them or have a full switch off system. It won't be long until we figure out how to make it like it should be.

The principal of the truck is sound. And its abilitys will surpass the H1 in some areas. But dam the H1 is badass lol. At least you are used to under 10mpg already lol.

[LagunaH1]

And its abilitys will surpass the H1 in some areas. But dam the H1 is badass lol. At least you are used to under 10mpg already lol.

Well, for starters the PW will be light years more comfortable, LOL. And, yes, the H1 is badass and exceptionally capable off road. It's also unbelievably heavy on maintenance, mostly given it's age (my truck is 19 years old). I am blissfully unaware what mileage my H1 gets

Prior to my H1, I wheeled an H3 Alpha. It was a 2008 model year and it had the same "handling nannys" as is being described in this thread so I think I'd be ok with the constraints. I was surprised to hear that the PW's hill descent control doesn't use gears and only brakes. How do you guys use hill descent control? DO you even use it? I imagine I'd use engine braking and gears much more than hill descent control. I assume I'd be able to do so, albeit manually?

[Snowsled]

You can control your descent as much as the electronic throttle and torque convertor will let you. Engine braking really is hit or miss on these trucks. Sometimes it will help you when you need it, most of the time it wont and you have zero control over how and when you get engine braking. My guess is, the new systems are far more intrusive than your H3. I know they are worse in this truck than any vehicle I have ever driven. My biggest beef is during winter. The nannies are just plain dangerous because they can not tell what the road surface is like. Couple that with unpredictable transmission shifting, unpredictable electronic throttle actions and overbearing traction and stability control systems and I assure you, it is a handful.

[MoparToYou]

And its abilitys will surpass the H1 in some areas. But dam the H1 is badass lol. At least you are used to under 10mpg already lol.

Well, for starters the PW will be light years more comfortable, LOL. And, yes, the H1 is badass and exceptionally capable off road. It's also unbelievably heavy on maintenance, mostly given it's age (my truck is 19 years old). I am blissfully unaware what mileage my H1 gets

Prior to my H1, I wheeled an H3 Alpha. It was a 2008 model year and it had the same "handling nannys" as is being described in this thread so I think I'd be ok with the constraints. I was surprised to hear that the PW's hill descent control doesn't use gears and only brakes. How do you guys use hill descent control? DO you even use it? I imagine I'd use engine braking and gears much more than hill descent control. I assume I'd be able to do so, albeit manually?

I only use hill descent control when off road, in low range 4 wheel drive, and when descending the very most difficult hills. It works very well in those situations. I have never used it on the highway, and don't see why you would want to. Just downshift the transmission.

Electronic nannies on a new Power Wagon are nowhere near as intrusive as on a new Jeep Wrangler, especially if it is a two door Wrangler that has a suspension lift and big tires on it. Now that is a constant battle with electronic nannies, so much so that I sold my 2014 Wrangler that was very well set up.

[LagunaH1]

As a follow up question:

If any of you have put 35's on your PW, how is it handling that in terms of regular on-road handling? I'm not super concerned about gas mileage or acceleration (keeping in mind what I am comparing to, LOL)

[coder]

Hi all,

Things are progressing (slowly) and I *might* be getting closer to getting a shiny new PW.

How is the transmission cooled? Does it have its own dedicated cooler or is it integrated with something else such as the engine cooler?
How is the engine oil cooled?
Is the transfer case cooled? If so, how?
How simple (or not) would it be to add a higher output alternator? -I ask because there are a couple of trucks on local dealer lots with some pretty nice discounts. None of those trucks have the high output alternator let alone the dual alternator setup.

Hello LagunaH1,

Here is my input:

- How is the transmission cooled? Does it have its own dedicated cooler or is it integrated with something else such as the engine cooler? - There is a dedicated cooler and it works well you won't have any cooling problems
- How is the engine oil cooled? - It's not and you won't have in problems with the factory setup
- Is the transfer case cooled? If so, how? - Same as above
- How simple (or not) would it be to add a higher output alternator?- There is limited aftermarket support for high output alternators, you can buy the 220 amp factory unit, or order a truck with the 180/200 dual combo (380 total). Unless you plan on adding a lot of electrical components the basic 180 amp alternator will work fine on a stock PW

The PW is a whole different animal than an H1 so the things you listed aren't really an issue. Maybe some of the 4G PW guys can chim in here, I think you should be fine with 35's they aren't that much bigger than the stock 33's I don't think it's a problem.

[MSCH2112]

you'll be happy with the PW. yeah the lockers can be slow to engage though. main problem for me offroad is the traction control, even being off. in deep snow i need to spin tires for momentum going uphill and the damn thing doesn't want to spin them so when i start revving up the the hill it will slow it down.

mike

[LagunaH1]

Hi all,

Things are progressing (slowly) and I *might* be getting closer to getting a shiny new PW.

How is the transmission cooled? Does it have its own dedicated cooler or is it integrated with something else such as the engine cooler?
How is the engine oil cooled?
Is the transfer case cooled? If so, how?
How simple (or not) would it be to add a higher output alternator? -I ask because there are a couple of trucks on local dealer lots with some pretty nice discounts. None of those trucks have the high output alternator let alone the dual alternator setup.

Hello LagunaH1,

Here is my input:

- How is the transmission cooled? Does it have its own dedicated cooler or is it integrated with something else such as the engine cooler? - There is a dedicated cooler and it works well you won't have any cooling problems
- How is the engine oil cooled? - It's not and you won't have in problems with the factory setup
- Is the transfer case cooled? If so, how? - Same as above
- How simple (or not) would it be to add a higher output alternator?- There is limited aftermarket support for high output alternators, you can buy the 220 amp factory unit, or order a truck with the 180/200 dual combo (380 total). Unless you plan on adding a lot of electrical components the basic 180 amp alternator will work fine on a stock PW

The PW is a whole different animal than an H1 so the things you listed aren't really an issue. Maybe some of the 4G PW guys can chim in here, I think you should be fine with 35's they aren't that much bigger than the stock 33's I don't think it's a problem.

Thanks much for this. I do plan on installing a couple of HAM radios and an additional deep cycle battery to drive them along with various battery isolator devices, etc so I want to feel really comfortable that my power budget can handle all that, plus winching whenever that's required (which probably won't be often)

[nts007]

You will be fine. Very happy with your new pw.

[Chromolykid]

I'm really confused by all these comments about the "electronics" being such a problem. Has everyone read the manual and held the TCS button for 5 seconds when stopped? 4HI I can pitch the truck sideways spinning the tires, no flashing lights or throttle reduction. The lockers and swaybars were slow at first, but get faster the more I use them and are now within 1-2 seconds. The transfer case shifts are instant. Love everything about this truck besides some sloppy adhesive work on the fender flares and Rambox (which I'm having replaced, the passenger side is warped). Only thing it's missing is a bumper sticker that says "Drive a hybrid, I need your fuel"

[azracer]

I'm really confused by all these comments about the "electronics" being such a problem. Has everyone read the manual and held the TCS button for 5 seconds when stopped? 4HI I can pitch the truck sideways spinning the tires, no flashing lights or throttle reduction. The lockers and swaybars were slow at first, but get faster the more I use them and are now within 1-2 seconds. The transfer case shifts are instant. Love everything about this truck besides some sloppy adhesive work on the fender flares and Rambox (which I'm having replaced, the passenger side is warped). Only thing it's missing is a bumper sticker that says "Drive a hybrid, I need your fuel"

I had and paid for a "drive a Prius I need your gas" sticker being made when my wife put a total ban on that idea, she said it was because of her fear of a nut job retaliating while we were nowhere near our truck and at best most vulnerable.

[Snowsled]

I'm really confused by all these comments about the "electronics" being such a problem. Has everyone read the manual and held the TCS button for 5 seconds when stopped? 4HI I can pitch the truck sideways spinning the tires, no flashing lights or throttle reduction. The lockers and swaybars were slow at first, but get faster the more I use them and are now within 1-2 seconds. The transfer case shifts are instant. Love everything about this truck besides some sloppy adhesive work on the fender flares and Rambox (which I'm having replaced, the passenger side is warped). Only thing it's missing is a bumper sticker that says "Drive a hybrid, I need your fuel"

So every time I drive the truck I have to push a button to make it work, because mine is in 4wd every day? Then I have to look at yet another warning light on the dash?

Try the throttle manipulation in 4lo and tell me how you like that... More stupidity, and the raised idle speed in 4lo makes stopping the truck a two foot affair for this 230 lb guy.

The electronics suck, they ruined the truck with them. Just because you have chosen to accept the garbage fitted doesn't mean it works.

Don't worry though, I will be gone soon as this thing sells. I wont come by to bother anybody with their heads in the sand regarding the de-nutting of the Power Wagon anymore.

[TruckBoatTruck]

I think when people are very experienced with one type of machine and then upgraded to a much different rig they feel like the new rig is worse (In some cases it may be) but I just think it takes time getting used to. You can just grab a brand new Machine and expect it to work the same exact way it did 20 years ago. You may have to develop new skills that the new rig may require. Maybe driving a 2015 rig off-road properly is much different then driving and analog rig off-road properly. Back in the day some things may have worked best but now with new items other things may work better and these just have to be rediscovered. Other then the CAD that just some Liberal bean counter decision right there.

Snowsled, You obviously know your shit. I read your comments on both forums and I would take your advice on just about everything, you seem to have a lot of experience and knowledge. That being said, maybe the best factory rig out there is not best for you. Obviously you take your vehicle to limits a lot of us will just never do on a day to day basis. but I think you are a very small percentage of the population that requires such a reliable and built vehicle. I can't wait to see what you get next because I know I'm gonna want one!

I still think the truck is a great rig for being a 2015 vehicle, it does not have a riced out 6 cylinder, It likes to drink like its old counter part, its got tires, its a REAL 4x4 system (even if part of it is cut in half), TWO straight axles, and have you seen those cup holders!

Either way at the end of the day were all gonna like what we like and do what we do, At least you gave the PW a shot and we all know more about its weaknesses so we may better prepare for them. not every rig is perfect, especially the PW but at least its not a Ford.

Thanks Snow, you should stick around and through your two sense in every once in a wile because its usually pretty good.

[Chromolykid]

I'm really confused by all these comments about the "electronics" being such a problem. Has everyone read the manual and held the TCS button for 5 seconds when stopped? 4HI I can pitch the truck sideways spinning the tires, no flashing lights or throttle reduction. The lockers and swaybars were slow at first, but get faster the more I use them and are now within 1-2 seconds. The transfer case shifts are instant. Love everything about this truck besides some sloppy adhesive work on the fender flares and Rambox (which I'm having replaced, the passenger side is warped). Only thing it's missing is a bumper sticker that says "Drive a hybrid, I need your fuel"

So every time I drive the truck I have to push a button to make it work, because mine is in 4wd every day? Then I have to look at yet another warning light on the dash?

Try the throttle manipulation in 4lo and tell me how you like that... More stupidity, and the raised idle speed in 4lo makes stopping the truck a two foot affair for this 230 lb guy.

The electronics suck, they ruined the truck with them. Just because you have chosen to accept the garbage fitted doesn't mean it works.

Don't worry though, I will be gone soon as this thing sells. I wont come by to bother anybody with their heads in the sand regarding the de-nutting of the Power Wagon anymore.

Is pushing a button that hard? I weigh 170 and can stop in 4LO just fine with one foot. I'm beginning to think your truck may have some kind of issue. If I was you and ABSOLUTELY needed to disable all the nannies, I'd wire an ABS fuse killswitch. But if a simple light on the dimmable dash is enough to bother you I'm sure a few more would make you light the truck on fire (not to mention the added task of having to flip a switch). But what do I know, I'm just a guy with my head in the sand. Sell it to someone who will appreciate it and go build a proper rock crawler. Good luck.

[LagunaH1]

Thought of one more question, this one isn't very technical:

All that "flame job" stuff on the sides of the truck. Is that stickers which can be removed or is it part of the actual paint job?

In other words: Could i get a dealer to peel it off, or would I need to find / order one without it?

[huntinguy]

They're just stickers.

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[FirerescuePW]

Many have done it. Make removal part of your deal, if you find one you like that has the stickers.

[monteholic]

Power Wagons can be ordered "graphics delete"

[Mule]

Power Wagons can be ordered "graphics delete"

With that option, were the graphics removed after installation, or were they never installed to begin with? :thinking

[waldo]

I ordered my 16 debadged.

[Low_Sky]

"Badging delete" is a free factory option. The badges are the default. If you find one stickered up on the lot, you can ask the dealer to remove them.


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