My 2016 finally arrived.

[Snowsled]

It would take a LOT of reprogramming to make the truck useable IMO. The electronic throttle is probably the worst offender... Is there a throttle cable conversion yet ? LOL If it was linear and in my control ALL of the time maybe we could come to an understanding. Still, I REALLY want a manual transmission too, I miss that badly. I am doubtful they could remove enough of the BS to make me happy at this point and doing so would likely cause warranty issues. If it doesn't have a warranty at this price point I am out.

I was just optimistic that all of the PW features would actually be useful. Problem is, when you really try to use it, the computer steps in and spoils the fun, usually creating a dangerous situation to boot.

I would love to have a one wire solution with a switch. Problem is, even with that it still needs that retarded CAD removed. What were they thinking?

From want you have posted on here you just need to sell the truck and move back to 2006. Aside from the fact I can't completely shut off the stability control in 2wd and the tpms system i don't see any issues with the rest. If you are used to a cable throttle drive by wire does take getting used to, but once you learn how what throttle it takes to do what there aren't any problems with it.
As for the CAD while I will agree it creates a weak point has anyone on here actually had an issue with it or are we just speaking hypothetically? In the design phase I thought they could have put it in a better location but they kept it there for some reason, obviously if they never set the truck down on it during the mule testing there probably isn't much of a chance of breaking it on trails. Could it happen? Sure, but even if that happens you will still have 4wd because it will just be stuck in the 4wd position. The put it on the power wagon because they weren't going to design another axle tube just for the power wagon, they already had to do that with the carrier for the locker connector.

I am going to sell the truck. I am not going back to a 2006.

If you think the drive by wire is OK I suspect you really haven't wheeled your rig hard yet. Go ahead and try crawling up a couple of big rocks using the gas and brake, as is common when off roading in an auto trans rig, and tell me how that goes for you... The computer will shut down the throttle completely. I had to re start the truck while it was balanced on a couple of wheels half way up the obstacle. Again, stupid and dangerous, thanks FCA.

My problem with the CAD is the lack of manual control over it, location of the connector(bet mine doesn't last the winter), and the delay in engagement. I would gladly take 1 mpg less, hell I'd give you 2 mpg if you give me a non CAD axle.

Why would they need to redesign for the PW? wasn't 2014 the first year of the CAD on these trucks? That would mean that they made front axles for years without this crap. Simply dig into that parts bin and fit a standard axle to the PW. It isn't like the parts do not already exist.

I understand much of this technology is considered progress. I just do not want nor need that much help driving my truck. The new trucks are quiet, comfortable and reasonable efficient but they have completely lost me with the capability. It should be a lot more capable than it is, it could be, in fact it used to be. Damn shame IMO...

[adeluca73]

Looks like you can put a free spin kit on the 2014 and up, if that's the route you'd like to go. Doesn't elimate CAD but removes one weak point.

http://www.dynatrac.com/free-spin-kits/dodge-truck.html

With the CAD, isn't your left wheel shaft hard connected to the spider gear, while the right has two splined shafts, one to the carrier, one to the wheel, w/ a vacuum motor actuated sleeve & collar between? So wouldn't manual free spin hubs only work on the left wheel?

You are good until the end, it is an electric motor that shifts the CAD, not vacuum.

Copy that's right, the 2nd Gen was a vacuum if I revall. I recall reading the press release where Ram did mention about an electrically actuated disconnect which they claimed supposedly increased dependability & reliability

[loveracing1988]

It would take a LOT of reprogramming to make the truck useable IMO. The electronic throttle is probably the worst offender... Is there a throttle cable conversion yet ? LOL If it was linear and in my control ALL of the time maybe we could come to an understanding. Still, I REALLY want a manual transmission too, I miss that badly. I am doubtful they could remove enough of the BS to make me happy at this point and doing so would likely cause warranty issues. If it doesn't have a warranty at this price point I am out.

I was just optimistic that all of the PW features would actually be useful. Problem is, when you really try to use it, the computer steps in and spoils the fun, usually creating a dangerous situation to boot.

I would love to have a one wire solution with a switch. Problem is, even with that it still needs that retarded CAD removed. What were they thinking?

From want you have posted on here you just need to sell the truck and move back to 2006. Aside from the fact I can't completely shut off the stability control in 2wd and the tpms system i don't see any issues with the rest. If you are used to a cable throttle drive by wire does take getting used to, but once you learn how what throttle it takes to do what there aren't any problems with it.
As for the CAD while I will agree it creates a weak point has anyone on here actually had an issue with it or are we just speaking hypothetically? In the design phase I thought they could have put it in a better location but they kept it there for some reason, obviously if they never set the truck down on it during the mule testing there probably isn't much of a chance of breaking it on trails. Could it happen? Sure, but even if that happens you will still have 4wd because it will just be stuck in the 4wd position. The put it on the power wagon because they weren't going to design another axle tube just for the power wagon, they already had to do that with the carrier for the locker connector.

I am going to sell the truck. I am not going back to a 2006.

If you think the drive by wire is OK I suspect you really haven't wheeled your rig hard yet. Go ahead and try crawling up a couple of big rocks using the gas and brake, as is common when off roading in an auto trans rig, and tell me how that goes for you... The computer will shut down the throttle completely. I had to re start the truck while it was balanced on a couple of wheels half way up the obstacle. Again, stupid and dangerous, thanks FCA.

My problem with the CAD is the lack of manual control over it, location of the connector(bet mine doesn't last the winter), and the delay in engagement. I would gladly take 1 mpg less, hell I'd give you 2 mpg if you give me a non CAD axle.

Why would they need to redesign for the PW? wasn't 2014 the first year of the CAD on these trucks? That would mean that they made front axles for years without this crap. Simply dig into that parts bin and fit a standard axle to the PW. It isn't like the parts do not already exist.

I understand much of this technology is considered progress. I just do not want nor need that much help driving my truck. The new trucks are quiet, comfortable and reasonable efficient but they have completely lost me with the capability. It should be a lot more capable than it is, it could be, in fact it used to be. Damn shame IMO...

I have been on the brake and gas at the same time, mine never shut down on me, it never did anything out of the ordinary, did yours do it once or can you replicate it?
I've had mine pushing snow with the front bumper and i have never harmed the connector whatsoever. The delay in engaging for me is about 2 to 3 seconds, I don't exactly think of that as a hinderence but I also shift into 4wd before I think I need it not after the fact so I've never had a issue.
They did the redesign on the front axle for the radius arms for 2013 3500's and then for 2014 the 2500's got it. They brackets are all different hence why they couldn't just use the old axle. When they changed the frame they changed to the radius arms as well, so they literally changed everything for 2014.

[Wild-Hog]

I just picked up my 2016 Laramie Power Wagon Thursday. Traded in a 2014 2500 CTD Laramie for it. I'm liking it so far!

[Snowsled]

I am glad it works for you, I really am. It doesn't work for me and you are unlikely to convince me otherwise. The issues are real and have created multiple potentially dangerous situations while driving the truck. I refuse to have 50 grand tied up in something I am just not happy with. The simple fact is they have gone backwards with the trucks capabilities and I am a disappointed customer because of it.

[RamGentry]

I just picked up my 2016 Laramie Power Wagon Thursday. Traded in a 2014 2500 CTD Laramie for it. I'm liking it so far!

That is one clean looking rig! I bet that expensive light bar will be the first thing to get trashed on the trail though

[adeluca73]

I am glad it works for you, I really am. It doesn't work for me and you are unlikely to convince me otherwise. The issues are real and have created multiple potentially dangerous situations while driving the truck. I refuse to have 50 grand tied up in something I am just not happy with. The simple fact is they have gone backwards with the trucks capabilities and I am a disappointed customer because of it.

Ok, you quandary has me curious since this weekend. Fortunately I woke up this morning to a snow storm so took the opportunity to do a series of informal tests & see if I can find the same issues you were having, here's a bulletized list, temps were in single digits (F) & roads were salt caked:

1) Traction control: I see where your complaint is valid, & how it could cause an accident. However, I think it's an invaluable feature. Yes it dramatically retards throttle mapping electronically & the harder I mashed on it on the ice covered streets in my neighborhood, the slower I was going, as the system sensed more acceleration & more slipping, it reduced throttle regardless of how much I mashed the go pedal. It works! It kept me nearly true in the corners & prevented spinning out the rear end, not real fun, BUT real safe. It also eliminates the need to drive in 4H driving on the roads in bad weather. This is my 3rd truck with it & I never have had to really go in 4H to drive the roads because of road condition or weather. If you were pulling out in traffic on slippery roads & needed to punch it, then yes, you could be in trouble.

2) CAD: I applied copious amounts of Fluid Film to my CAD & Smartbar in summer 2014 ( forgot to hit it again last summer ) & I installed a locker by-pass. I switched in & out of 4H today 10 times and I timed from lever throw to 4Lock indicator light on dash w/ my iPhone timer feature:
- from rest at stop sign : 1.28s
- repeat : 1.21s
- rolling at 10mph: 1.01s
- under power at 5mph: 1.65s
- under power at 25mph: 1.7s
- under power at 40mph: 1.68s
- under power at 55mph: 2.42s
- screwing around in the iced parking lot doing spins: 1.38s
- repeat: 1.35s
- repeat : 0.9s

3) engaged both lockers today several times in 4H, & the rears in 2H, & lock-up was instantaneous every time.

I couldn't find any flaws with my functionality at this juncture.

[Snowsled]

I would love to have the locker bypass. I have asked all over and can not seem to find them on sale anymore. No doubt about it, that would solve some of my issues.

I still despise the traction control and electronic throttle manipulation in general. It would seem to me that the whole works would be safer if it was more predictable. I hate the manipulation in low range, ridiculous garbage. I hate it with the TC engaged. I can handle the truck without the computer, thanks anyway. When it does something on its own that I did not tell it to do, and did not anticipate, it creates a dangerous situation.

I guess most people will look at your test numbers and think that waiting 1-1.5 seconds for the CAD is probably acceptable. The issue I have is having to wait at all. Third gen guys get 4wd no waiting but we are saddled with a fuel economy compromise in a V8 3/4 ton truck? The hardcore off road version to boot? Sorry but that is a fail in my book. I guess I am no longer a representative customer. I am officially out of the mainstream, probably approaching curmudgeon status...

I just want my vehicle to do exactly what I tell it. The computer has zero idea what the situation is and has no business taking control from me. That is my protest in a nutshell.

[Colibri]

I'm with you snowsled! I don't care for any of the electronic nannies that have become the norm. I even dislike abs in the truck because it has almost wadded me up in the dirt. We are definitely the minority though. I would not ever buy another vehicle newer than my 3rd gen. If I could swing it I'd just put a cummins in an old k30 Chevy truck and be a damn caveman lol

[RustyPW]

What's really sad. It's only going to get worst. Every manufacture has computer nannies now. Couple years down the road. You hop in the car, push a few buttons, bucket up, and relax. The car will drive it's self to where you want to go. Never have to touch the steering wheel if there is one to touch. That's why I'm hanging on the what I have now.

[FirerescuePW]

My 2005 forever!!!

[adeluca73]

So I was reading my write up again, and I didn't clarify the test exactly right, since I was driving, timing, and throwing the lever myself, I couldn't start the timer and the throw the lever exactly simultaneously---maybe 0.5 - 1.0 sec lag, so in reality, subtract that amount from my test times, and it really is near instantaneous.

The locker by-pass deal works great, and it uses the factory knob which is nice, the only thing it won't do is blink/flash if there's a problem with your locker engagement, it merely lights up with the presence of the 12V signal to the magnet. SO in theory, if you're not paying attention to the "feel" of the truck locked vs. unlocked, and only used the locker light as + ID, then you could have an issue, and not realize it. I think CajunPW and/or PitSlave are taking on the task of starting up the MyYoung By-Pass project, and there's a list, think I saw you on it. Be patient, it still might happen.

Locker engagement in general is an issue for some on EVERY PW variant from 2005 to today. Mine wasn't awful before I installed the by-pass though, and I debated not installing it at all and just reselling on here---hmmm now that they're a rare commodity, I see $$$ in my future---but seriously, I used them maybe 8-10 times before I installed the by-pass early last summer, and I barely had any lag or lock-up time previously. So I thought my lockers in stock config were just fine. So I don't necessarily think the by-pass gained me anything in activation-to-locked timing, but I know others who have lamented the figure-8, the rocking, the slipped turns to get their stock lockers to engage, so for those, who then installed the by-pass, it's a savior, wasn't for me. HOWEVER, where it is great for me, is the ability to lock-up in 2H or 4H w/ or w/o engaging the smart bar and going to 4L. That's is #1 benefit to me.

So I guess I'm confused on all the fuss over the TC, which seems to be your #1 biggest gripe. It's a safety feature, and I love it. It has really enable me to drive the truck with a sense of confidence in the ice, slush, slippery roads w/o going into 4H or crawling along at 20mph on I-75 or I-70. I don't ever worry about spinning out coming home at night on black ice in the neighborhood because the system simply doesn't let the read end to get away from you. I had a old CK1500 Chevy, 2-door, manual xfer case, long bed, as a hunting truck in Alaska, and that thing got sideways all the time if I got on the go-pedal in turns. It was a giant PIA. Now I forgot to mention, I did run with the TC OFF yesterday as well, in my neighborhood and in the huge parking lots at work in 2H and 4H, and whew, I was able to get the rear end whipped around quick in 2H, so you can disengage it if it is an issue for you. Also, I think JBM posted on here some procedure of holding down the button and turning the key off/on or something like that which further eliminates all nanny controls even more so than just pushing the TC off button, but I forgot what exactly it was. Have you tried that at all?

[olyelr]

So I guess I'm confused on all the fuss over the TC, which seems to be your #1 biggest gripe. It's a safety feature, and I love it. It has really enable me to drive the truck with a sense of confidence in the ice, slush, slippery roads w/o going into 4H or crawling along at 20mph on I-75 or I-70. I don't ever worry about spinning out coming home at night on black ice in the neighborhood because the system simply doesn't let the read end to get away from you. I had a old CK1500 Chevy, 2-door, manual xfer case, long bed, as a hunting truck in Alaska, and that thing got sideways all the time if I got on the go-pedal in turns. It was a giant PIA. Now I forgot to mention, I did run with the TC OFF yesterday as well, in my neighborhood and in the huge parking lots at work in 2H and 4H, and whew, I was able to get the rear end whipped around quick in 2H, so you can disengage it if it is an issue for you. Also, I think JBM posted on here some procedure of holding down the button and turning the key off/on or something like that which further eliminates all nanny controls even more so than just pushing the TC off button, but I forgot what exactly it was. Have you tried that at all?

While agree with you about the traction control on the main highway, where my gripe about it is when off road (and sounds like snowsleds main issue also). I dont know how exactly it effects the truck in any scenario as I dont have a pw, but my Jeep does have a similar setup.

Like you, I love the system on the main roads. It has saved me on a few different occasions. I watched from the passenger seat as it saved my family and I when my wife was driving the Jeep through a completely iced over section of road. Jeep started going sideways and there was absolutely no way for her to bring it back... hell I dont think I even would have and I am the best driver in the world. But the system started locking up brakes and what-have-you and the next thing I know we are going straight down the road again like nothing happened... except there may have been a squirt or two in my briefs.

My beef with the systems are when in the off road environment. I just want to drive the vehicle myself, and know what it is going to do. Even you press the off button for the traction control (on a Jeep anyway), you still cant whip the jeep sideways in 2 wheel drive cause it starts doing the brake lockup bullshit. Also, when the stupid antilock brakes are kicking in coming down a steep offcamber descend that you know damn well the vehicle would stop dead in its tracks IF IT WOULD ALLOW IT... that pisses me off. And as snowsled sates, it can be downright dangerous.

I know why the systems are installed. They are safe. And, it is the law.

The fact is, if you dont like the systems then either buy older vehicles or figure out a way to bypass it. I cut one single wire on my Jeep which completely stops all of those electronic nannies... traction control, ABS, all that stuff... and put a switch on it so I can shut it off when I going wheeling. Maybe there is a way to do something like that with the PW?

[coder]

I thought you could turn the traction control off I saw this thread on the cummins forum.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2013- ... ntrol.html

[Stickman]

I don't know if the Trinity is updated for the '14+s yet but it has the capability of turning the TC and ABS off completely, takes about 10 or 15 seconds to do after starting it up and then automatically resets it after cycling the key.

[MoparToYou]

Snowsled,
If you don't like the electronic nannies on a Power Wagon, then don't buy a new Jeep Wrangler. They probably have the same systems, but the system on the Wrangler feels far more intrusive than the system on the Power Wagon. The electronic nannies haven't been too bad on my Power Wagon, but they caused problems almost daily with my last Wrangler. I sold the Wrangler, largely due to the intrusiveness of the electronic nannies. Here is a post I made on a Wrangler forum about the electronic nannies on my Wrangler:

Just some background before I post my question. My main passion for the last 35 years has been desert racing. Jeeps are kind of a side attraction for me. I still race some, in fact, I'm signed up for a National Hare & Hound Desert Race next Saturday in my UTV. I've raced three different vehicle classes over the years.

Anyway, I did some exploring today in the Jeep, in the mountains of southeast Nevada. I got snowed out at high elevation and had to come back down to the high desert (5000 feet elevation) to get out of the snow. When I got back down to the main dirt road heading north-south my fuel situation limited which way I could go. If I went south to the highway there would not be a fuel station close enough to refuel before running out. So I had to go north, which was away from home, but I could gas up in Garrison, NV, and then return home. A few miles after turning north I see a sign that says "Garrison 66 miles", and I knew I had enough fuel to make it. The road was a typical desert road with long straights, sweeping turns, and a few wash crossings that made for big G-outs. After a few miles I start picking up the speed a little more, and then a little more. Eventually I'm hitting 70 on the straights, and sliding through the turns some. The Electronic Stability Program (ESP) is coming on for pretty much every turn, but it isn't interfering too badly, and I'm having a good time. I am noticing that the Jeep is working really good. Its not a race vehicle, but the Fox 2.0 shocks are working awesome for this type of driving. The Toyo M/T tires are working very well, with a smooth transition from grip to slipping that is easy to control. The bumpstops are set perfectly, and when the suspension is bottomed hard on a G-out the tires very very slightly buzz the fenders. Couldn't ask for a better set up for a basic exploring Jeep.

Then I enter a turn a little hotter than the rest. I get on the brakes a little harder than I normally would, then decide I'm going to have to drift this turn instead of brake for it, and go to get back on the gas. All of this takes about a half second if you've been doing this for a few decades. But, ... the ESP system had gone into full panic mode, far far more aggressively than its ever done before. And I realize that except for the steering wheel I have no control over the vehicle at all. I made it through the turn, but with a different method than I planned on. The ESP can apply brakes to just one side of the vehicle, which I obviously cannot do.

As I exit the turn and get back on the gas, I'm thinking to myself that I need to back it down a bit, and I notice that the Sirius radio had gone silent. I had been listening to a nice Patty Loveless song on Prime Country, and it stopped. The radio then starts speaking to me, and says "If this has been a roll-over, or you need emergency towing service please press such and such button to set up this service, or just speak directly into the radio". I didn't catch what button it said to press. I looked at the radio and the display says "VOICE" and there is a microphone symbol after the word, and everything is quiet, as if the radio is waiting for me to speak.

Being the conspiracy theorist that I am, I didn't want someone somewhere that is connected to a satellite listening to me. So I turned off the radio, and then turned it back on again, and it was back on Prime Country again, and the Patty Loveless song was ending.

Then I thought, why didn't I check this out. What is this "emergency towing service" that it was talking about? Is it satellite based, or cell phone based like On Star? Is this a service that could save your butt if you got into trouble in the middle of nowhere where there is no cell phone service? How do you go about activating it? And how much does it cost? Is it a Jeep based service, or do I need to stay subscribed to Sirius to use it?

Sorry for the novel, but it was one of those you had to be there moments. I think I made my ESP think I rolled my Jeep.

[Chromolykid]

My 2010 Tacoma was also able to completely eliminate ABS, TCS, and ESC by placing a switch on a single wire. It would be awesome if someone was to figure out a similar, simple way to make the new trucks "unsafe". You won't find me cutting factory wires in my 2016 (I'm a little hesitant to throw a 3.5 ton truck into a 70mph drift anyways), but anyone else can feel free to experiment and report their findings

[azracer]

I have pulled my abs fuse when off road but I have no other nanny controls that I'm aware of on my 2009.

Might try that and see what it does.

[nts007]

Forgive me If I'm wrong but as far as the axle disconnect, couldn't one switch out the entire passenger half shaft from carrier to hub with a single one piece and eliminate the cad? Sure the truck would complain but if it gets put together it can come apart right? That would eliminate the cad. Piss off the truck a bit and allow you to install free spin kit. It has been done on 2nd gen trucks.

[waldo]

Forgive me If I'm wrong but as far as the axle disconnect, couldn't one switch out the entire passenger half shaft from carrier to hub with a single one piece and eliminate the cad? Sure the truck would complain but if it gets put together it can come apart right? That would eliminate the cad. Piss off the truck a bit and allow you to install free spin kit. It has been done on 2nd gen trucks.

Yeah. Have to find a shaft though. I tried Yukon and they don't make a kit for one (yet) and they wouldn't say if they were going to or not. You'd probably have to keep the shift motor connected somewhere under the truck so it would provide positional feedback to the system (saying it did shift) so your lockers would work. If you just removed it, it would probably throw a bunch of faults, even with a bypass.

[Will]

Ooo, I want to turn my abs off permanently. Was reminded of that yesterday when I came up on my turn a little fast on a hard sandy road with pea gravel on top.

[Snowsled]

See, there is another problem... When Yukon gets around to making the kit we need we will still need to look at all of the warning lights on the dash. Seems like every time you get in for a drive there will be buttons and switches to activate, which will light your dash up but maybe you will be able to exorcise 50% of the demons from the truck????

I am definitely going caveman. We are in the middle of buying a house right now so no trades coming real soon. I will find a buyer for this very nice truck over the summer I am sure. Nothing wrong with it at all except it just doesn't suit me.

As far as the TC system, I would MUCH rather throw the truck into 4wd than depend on the TC to keep me going. There have been several times the TC has left the trailer still out in the highway because the uphill turn off the highway is icy. Then you grab the 4wd lever and go to gas it, no engagement, try gain, OK moving but all along my rig is in the narrow road around blind corners. I HATE IT!

As mentioned, most of this junk is mandated by the govt and not FCA's fault really. These are nice trucks but not for me. I will be backdating the fleet as soon as I can.

[nts007]

I hate the electronics changes as much as you snow. That's why I won't buy newer than 09 unless I really really have no choice. I love my 08. Miss my 06 more than anything.

[loveracing1988]

Forgive me If I'm wrong but as far as the axle disconnect, couldn't one switch out the entire passenger half shaft from carrier to hub with a single one piece and eliminate the cad? Sure the truck would complain but if it gets put together it can come apart right? That would eliminate the cad. Piss off the truck a bit and allow you to install free spin kit. It has been done on 2nd gen trucks.

In theory a shaft from a 2013 truck could work, but no one has tried it. Or until a shaft is made (if that doesn't work) you could buy a second shift actuator and connect it to the stock connector so the truck thinks the actuator is working and leave the factory one engaged at all times.

[nts007]

I do know that the inner shaft didn't change from 06-09 just the short outer did once or twice. The ujoint being the common connector. Honestly if that stayed true any inner half shaft passenger side would work. I can't see them changing splines or shaft diameter. Might be something to look into. In that case just pull your half shaft and replace the long inner keeping your outer.

I'm always lookin for ways to circumnavigate the bullshit.