Need some opinions guys- this gear pattern...

[2wagons1driveway]

Hey guys snapped these pics
Of my front diff tonight. When my hubs are locked for the last few months I've had quite a howl/ groaning noise coming from the front diff area. The t case was rebuilt cause the dealer suspected that was it. No change. Told me it was wheel bearings so I changed to the dynatrac free spin kit and still same noise. I'm a technician but I never deal with gear sets. It honestly sounds very similar to a bad wheel bearing but zero play in the pinion. No metal shavings or anything in there but the tooth pattern on the pinion caught my attention? Looks to be very far forward on the pinion. Truck only has 60,000 miles

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[RustyPW]

From what I can see in the pic's. The toe pattern does look like it's too far out on the end.

[Colibri]

Yep looks a little screwy to me. I'd bet your backlash is way on the loose side.

[loveracing1988]

Snap a little bit better picture of the drive and coast side of the ring gear. When is the noise happening? Acceleration? Deceleration? Constant speed? Does the noise change when you put the transfer case in 4wd?

[Will]

Pinion does look shallow but it leaves the tooth right at the end looking at the pattern, drive side of the ring looks great in those pictures.

[Will]

Inspect front drive shaft also. Could be hearing vibrations where the slip yoke has wear and wobbling.
Take out drive shaft and drive around with hubs locked to start eliminating. If it still does it, unlock them and drive some more, if it goes away, you'll know it's in the front end, diff,or axle bearing or u joints...but you should be able to narrow it down.

[15wbpw]

Time for a new R&P. That pinion looks wasted. It's way too far on the edge and the ring gear looks like it's barely getting contacted on those pictures. Surprised it hasn't broken yet.

[2wagons1driveway]

Inspect front drive shaft also. Could be hearing vibrations where the slip yoke has wear and wobbling.
Take out drive shaft and drive around with hubs locked to start eliminating. If it still does it, unlock them and drive some more, if it goes away, you'll know it's in the front end, diff,or axle bearing or u joints...but you should be able to narrow it down.

the slip yoke should have very little play if any as the drive shaft probably only has 20,000miles. And I've already lubricated the splines on it when it was new. Unless it's deteriorated that much which is possible. Just figured it was diff cause of that gear pattern and the shaft has zero play in it and turns smoothly but I think I'm gunna pull this weekend and check it out. Maybe hit George up for a rebuild kit...


Sent from Canada

[Will]

Inspect front drive shaft also. Could be hearing vibrations where the slip yoke has wear and wobbling.
Take out drive shaft and drive around with hubs locked to start eliminating. If it still does it, unlock them and drive some more, if it goes away, you'll know it's in the front end, diff,or axle bearing or u joints...but you should be able to narrow it down.

the slip yoke should have very little play if any as the drive shaft probably only has 20,000miles. And I've already lubricated the splines on it when it was new. Unless it's deteriorated that much which is possible. Just figured it was diff cause of that gear pattern and the shaft has zero play in it and turns smoothly but I think I'm gunna pull this weekend and check it out. Maybe hit George up for a rebuild kit...


Sent from Canada

10-4, just thinking of other things it might be, good luck with it.

[2wagons1driveway]

Inspect front drive shaft also. Could be hearing vibrations where the slip yoke has wear and wobbling.
Take out drive shaft and drive around with hubs locked to start eliminating. If it still does it, unlock them and drive some more, if it goes away, you'll know it's in the front end, diff,or axle bearing or u joints...but you should be able to narrow it down.

the slip yoke should have very little play if any as the drive shaft probably only has 20,000miles. And I've already lubricated the splines on it when it was new. Unless it's deteriorated that much which is possible. Just figured it was diff cause of that gear pattern and the shaft has zero play in it and turns smoothly but I think I'm gunna pull this weekend and check it out. Maybe hit George up for a rebuild kit...


Sent from Canada

10-4, just thinking of other things it might be, good luck with it.

thanks man. It isn't a life or death thing right now but it's been bugging me a few months and now that winter here is on my door step running on the highway in 4wd is mandatory some days.

I just talked to a driveline shop and he said there's almost "no way" it could be from the gear set being bad as the noise is present in 2wd or 4wd unloaded/ loaded. He figures it's got to be a bearing inside the diff / pinion bearing or the prop shaft. Says 870$ to rebuild it with new bearings and all new seals if the shaft is okay.


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[TwinStick]

"pinion bearing failure, due to lack of lubrication" is the #1 finding from Dodge/Chrysler/Fiat when one fails under warranty & they inspect it.

My question is: If it is bought new & oil level is correct & no leaks....how can this possibly even happen ?

This is why i intentionally overfill my diffs.

Google "dodge pinion bearing failure" & you get 28,700 hits.

Google dodge axle failure & you get 408,000 hits.

Yet talk to your dealer & they will say "huh, i've never heard of this happening before.

[2wagons1driveway]

"pinion bearing failure, due to lack of lubrication" is the #1 finding from Dodge/Chrysler/Fiat when one fails under warranty & they inspect it.

My question is: If it is bought new & oil level is correct & no leaks....how can this possibly even happen ?

This is why i intentionally overfill my diffs.

Google "dodge pinion bearing failure" & you get 28,700 hits.

Google dodge axle failure & you get 408,000 hits.

Yet talk to your dealer & they will say "huh, i've never heard of this happening before.

well in all honesty the dealer is told not to use words like common or normal or frequent on any repairs they do. They can get themselves caught up in Some nasty lawsuits if they start admitting to failures!



Okay so weird and confused alittle: I pulled the front driveshaft and drove the truck still had noise in the front end but it was less pronounced almost like the driveshaft is accenting it?

Any thoughts? Figured this would isolate driveshaft/ pinion bearing/ axle at least but the fact it's less quiet kind of worries me more. Again t case was just rebuilt at dodge 3000 miles ago. And I still had noise after that so unless the guy didn't put any bearings in it (doubt it) then it may be the shaft or the pinion bearing.


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[2wagons1driveway]

Shaft splines look great FYI lots of grease in there and easy movement no play or stiffness in the double cardan either added some more
Grease just to be sure. Wondering if the driveshaft out of balance could cause the noise to be louder? When I hit 70mph with the truck in 2wd the noise is really cyclic like it pulses almost ....


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[TwinStick]

Maybe an output bearing in t-case ??? Or the double cardan joint ???

[Will]

Mine has has a slight hum to it right at 70mph in the front of the truck since the day I got it. It quits between 72 & 80 but comes back above that and gets louder the faster you go. 130k miles and nothing has changed... Sounds like gears, I just figured it's the low gears not liking high speed. I don't notice anything below 70 though.

[2wagons1driveway]

Maybe an output bearing in t-case ??? Or the double cardan joint ???

I'm wondering if my 6" lift is toasting this front drive shaft double cardan faster then it normally would- I also
Don't have a t case turn. To help with the angle and the fourth gen trucks have much larger front u joints in the double cardan also so they don't seem to enjoy the severe angles as easily as the third gens. The joints seem okay though no tough spots no play in the u joints but maybe the cardan itself is toast from the constant 20* arch. It is a part that I haven't changed since I've had this issue starting a few months ago....

Considering a t case turn or a new high angle drive shaft made with dual cv's


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[2wagons1driveway]

Lol nevermind it's got to be a diff issue as well maybe compounded with the shaft but driving it to work this morning hubs locked and not front driveshaft connected to the diff she was howling pretty good/ maybe I couldn't hear it last night cause the pinion was actually driving it on the hoist so taking pressure off the bad bearing


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[nts007]

Keep in mind I went through 3 Cardon joints in a year. Dealer once looked at it and couldn't find the issue or what was vibrating. Useless. They were being grenaded by the pinion flopping around as the control arm bushings were beyond toast. So your lift and what you have for angle may be hurting it more than you think. I vividly remember the vibrations I got from it the first time it went bad and the horrible sound and feeling I got when the second blew apart on the highway. I'd rather have my front diff disintegrate than that Cardon blow again

[2wagons1driveway]

This is true I'm Deffinately keeping this in mind.


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[2wagons1driveway]

Anybody have experience with HAD prop shafts?


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