About to pull the trigger on a 15 PW, need some advice!

[Snowsled]

So why do we panic earlier now? The fluids are better, better materials, better engineering, it should be less of a problem if anything.

[RustyPW]

So why do we panic earlier now? The fluids are better, better materials, better engineering, it should be less of a problem if anything.

Two words. "Warranty Claims!". Keep the temps down. Some manufacturers recommend changing the fluid after hard use like towing at 15,000 miles. If they don't have to pay out for warranty work. That's more profit.

[RAM4ROKS]

I thought mine had a problem due to how much the 4wd shift lever moves as well! (I have had I think 5 other manual T-case lever vehicles and none of them have ever moved this much) They assured me it was normal, and I have put 50+k miles on it since that time so, no worries there! The other issues I don't have any input other than to say- good luck! I hope everything works out well for you!!!

[nfb]

So I got the truck back Tuesday after having CarMax paint a large scratch I hadn't seen. They were super cool about it. I dropped it at the dealer Wednesday to replace the oil pan gasket and to rule out a wrist pin issue. I don't have any of the clatter but I figured worst case, I get a new engine.lol. They fixed the leak and put in the correct amount of oil this time.

Got the truck back yesterday and went out to the Rio Puerco trail head in ABQ. Didn't make it a mile in before I got the transmission temp warning. This morning I replicated it on a small dirt hill just by holding a steady 1/4 throttle with the truck just creeping up.

I had my camera ready so I got the initial warning, and the guages immediately after. My findings show that the warning is coming on at lower and lower temps, often at temps lower than what I see sitting in traffic. No limp mode with the warning yet, but there is certainly something wrong here. I just dropped the truck off and sent the rep my pictures. I told him I don't want it back until it's fixed. I'm going to start getting a packet together and prepare to lemon law the thing if it comes to that.

[nfb]

But to keep from being such a Debby Downer, here's a little pic from yesterday while I let the transmission cool down before heading home.

[Reloaderguy]

Ask to have the PCM flashed with the most recent update. It could be a software issue.

[nfb]

Ask to have the PCM flashed with the most recent update. It could be a software issue.

I'm planning on it. They we're supposed to do that with the oil pan gasket, but instead only updated an ABS patch. I would be happy if that were it. And it's so easy to trip the warning that I would be confident that it was fixed. It will probably be Tuesday before I hear anything.

[nfb]

I figure I would update this for anyone still following. After I dropped the truck off last time, I waited 4 days for the transmission specialist to look at it, only to be told they could not duplicate the problem. They finally agreed to let me take a tech out and show him which I've been suggesting since the second time I went in.

This time the truck had sat and cooled for 30 minutes or so and the transmission temp was at about 157 when I got to the hill. Not sure if that is relevant. The first encounter I had with this problem was at 190, then 176, and then 167 so I expected to have to get the transmission temp over 160. To do that I lightly power breaker up the hill in 4hi 1st gear. 159 degrees. That's how hot it got before the warning. To me that could mean the problem is getting b worse since it happens at lower temperatures every time. Or it could mean the warning is load-induced not temperature-induced. The tech was flabbergasted, he said he had never seen that. I mentioned how it only ever happened in 4hi regardless of grear, so he asked to see in 2wd. That time I did it on level pavement, temperature had climbed to 175 in 10 minutes since the hill and the warning light had gone off, brake down, holding at 1000 rpm. The temperature climbed to 179 and the warning came on again.

I dropped the truck off again and asked for a loaner again. The told me no again. They said unless engine or transmission were out I didn't get a loaner. Anyways they apparently had ever tech there look at it, and somehow after almost 10 unsuccessful attempts to duplicate my findings, they were suddenly able to duplicate it multiple times. They had no idea what it was so they initiated a STAR case. I told my gf that they will probably just go in and remove the light so I can't see it.

Fast forward 2 days to Thursday. They leave me a voicemail telling me that Chrysler's official decision and solution is...drum roll please....to replace the instrument cluster. Not the transmission, not the PCM, the guages themselves. Idk, to me that's like getting an error message on your computer and replacing the monitor to fix the problem. Of course it will be next week before the new cluster even gets in, I'm not authorised a loaner, and I don't feel comfortable driving the truck. So in 7-10 days when I finally get it back, the first thing I'm doing is heading back to my hill and getting the transmission temp above my highest recorded warning to make sure that it's "fixed". Honestly I don't even know who to be upset. I don't know what my options are. I don't think this issue qualifies for a Lemon case, I didn't buy from a dealer so getting trade or buy back seems pretty impossible since they already treat me like the black sheep when they see the carmax sticker on it. The only good news is that compared to my 1500, I am saving tons of money on gas.

[nts007]

I don't wanna be that guy but 167° is not a issue for the tranny. You cannot let the trans oil temp exceed 300° as at that point internal damage can occur. Your truck is just whining.

150° is the low minimum operating temp
175-200° is normal
275° is the maximum allowable for short duration during long uphill climbs
300° damage occurs like warping of metal parts and melting seals.
I see 200-210° on really hot summer days in the city just putsing around. And it cools off on the highway. I don't think you have a actual issue just a really stupid computer.
The higher the oil temp/duration the shorter the oil change interval due to oil oxidation. And these numbers are for atf under constant temps. Atf+4 has a higher tolerance so this is very conservative.

175° - 100,000mile
195° - 50,000mile
215° - 25,000mile
235° - 12,500miles
255° - 6,200miles
275° - 3,125miles
295° - 1,500miles
315° - 750 miles
335° - 325 miles
355° - 160miles
375° - 80miles
395° - 40miles

These are the distances and temps that major oxidation occurs. Obviously 300° plus is very damaging.
Atf+4 is far different than other oils (dexron, atf+3 ect) as it has higher resistance to tempature, oxidation, shear and cavitation. There are other things too but just do a Google search.

I don't see your tempature as bad in any way. At least not from a mechanical stand point.

[nfb]

I don't wanna be that guy but 167° is not a issue for the tranny. You cannot let the trans oil temp exceed 300° as at that point internal damage can occur. Your truck is just whining.

150° is the low minimum operating temp
175-200° is normal
275° is the maximum allowable for short duration during long uphill climbs
300° damage occurs like warping of metal parts and melting seals.
I see 200-210° on really hot summer days in the city just putsing around. And it cools off on the highway. I don't think you have a actual issue just a really stupid computer.
The higher the oil temp/duration the shorter the oil change interval due to oil oxidation. And these numbers are for atf under constant temps. Atf+4 has a higher tolerance so this is very conservative.

175° - 100,000mile
195° - 50,000mile
215° - 25,000mile
235° - 12,500miles
255° - 6,200miles
275° - 3,125miles
295° - 1,500miles
315° - 750 miles
335° - 325 miles
355° - 160miles
375° - 80miles
395° - 40miles

These are the distances and temps that major oxidation occurs. Obviously 300° plus is very damaging.
Atf+4 is far different than other oils (dexron, atf+3 ect) as it has higher resistance to tempature, oxidation, shear and cavitation. There are other things too but just do a Google search.

I don't see your tempature as bad in any way. At least not from a mechanical stand point.

Thank you for the info, it echoes a link that was posted earlier. It's definitively comforting to hear that I'm not crazy that these temps are well within normal limits. I agree completely that mechanically the temperatures I'm seeing are not an issue. Both my 1500 ran 190+ all the time with no issues. My issue is when the truck starts freaking out over the temps. I want to know why. I also wish I could verify that the temperature on that guage is accurate. It would be pretty bad if the tranny is running hot (250+) and I'm getting a warning, but the guage is only showing 160-180. I highly doubt that is the case, which is why I think a new cluster is not going to help. I trust the truck's reliability. But for the money I'm paying it would be nice to not have trivial issues like this that cast doubt. I could pick the truck up and drive it like normal and probably not see a transmission related problem for 100K miles. But I'll never be able to really trust it enough to take anywhere I can't walk out of. Which sucks because I bought the thing so that I could get off the beaten path, and go places that the average Joe can't. Now I've gotta either stay where a tow truck can make it just in case, or gamble that it's nothing. I don't want to sound like Snowsled here.lol. I'm more than satisfied with the truck and its potential to go just about anywhere and run just about forever. Just disappointed that I'm having this issue.

[RustyPW]

You can put a gauge in the outlet line of the tranny. That would show you the working temps of the tranny. If you put it in the inlet line. That would show you the temps after the cooler. If you put the gauge into the pan. That would give you an overall temps. That would be a mix of hot/cooled fluid, and some what metal temps. I have mine in the pan. I'm using the Mag-Hytec tranny pan.
My install thread.

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334355

[loveracing1988]

You can put a gauge in the outlet line of the tranny. That would show you the working temps of the tranny. If you put it in the inlet line. That would show you the temps after the cooler. If you put the gauge into the pan. That would give you an overall temps. That would be a mix of hot/cooled fluid, and some what metal temps. I have mine in the pan. I'm using the Mag-Hytec tranny pan.
My install thread.

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334355

There is a simpler solution. Get a $20 Bluetooth obd scantool and check to see what the pcm says. If it matches the cluster they cluster won't fix it, if it reads different the cluster probably will fix it.

[RustyPW]

You can put a gauge in the outlet line of the tranny. That would show you the working temps of the tranny. If you put it in the inlet line. That would show you the temps after the cooler. If you put the gauge into the pan. That would give you an overall temps. That would be a mix of hot/cooled fluid, and some what metal temps. I have mine in the pan. I'm using the Mag-Hytec tranny pan.
My install thread.

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334355

There is a simpler solution. Get a $20 Bluetooth obd scantool and check to see what the pcm says. If it matches the cluster they cluster won't fix it, if it reads different the cluster probably will fix it.

Wonder if the dealership already did that. And that's how they came up with replacing the cluster?

[olyelr]

The only good news is that compared to my 1500, I am saving tons of money on gas.

Was that a typo, or sarcasm? What are you getting for mileage?

Best of luck with you issue. Hopefully they get it worked out for you.

[loveracing1988]

You can put a gauge in the outlet line of the tranny. That would show you the working temps of the tranny. If you put it in the inlet line. That would show you the temps after the cooler. If you put the gauge into the pan. That would give you an overall temps. That would be a mix of hot/cooled fluid, and some what metal temps. I have mine in the pan. I'm using the Mag-Hytec tranny pan.
My install thread.

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334355

There is a simpler solution. Get a $20 Bluetooth obd scantool and check to see what the pcm says. If it matches the cluster they cluster won't fix it, if it reads different the cluster probably will fix it.

Wonder if the dealership already did that. And that's how they came up with replacing the cluster?

One can only hope.

[nfb]

The only good news is that compared to my 1500, I am saving tons of money on gas.

Was that a typo, or sarcasm? What are you getting for mileage?

Best of luck with you issue. Hopefully they get it worked out for you.

Haha it was sarcasm. I mean it's true. I've only filled up twice in the 3 weeks I've owned it. But when I can actually drive it, I'm averaging 12.5-13. My 1500 was averaging 13.5 with all the extras.

[nfb]

You can put a gauge in the outlet line of the tranny. That would show you the working temps of the tranny. If you put it in the inlet line. That would show you the temps after the cooler. If you put the gauge into the pan. That would give you an overall temps. That would be a mix of hot/cooled fluid, and some what metal temps. I have mine in the pan. I'm using the Mag-Hytec tranny pan.
My install thread.

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334355

There is a simpler solution. Get a $20 Bluetooth obd scantool and check to see what the pcm says. If it matches the cluster they cluster won't fix it, if it reads different the cluster probably will fix it.

This is why I love this forum. I just ordered one from Amazon. I'll use it to verify when they get the new cluster put in. And I'll ask the technician that drove with me if they checked the actual temp compared to the display.

[nfb]

Just got a call from the dealer. Well more specifically I called them to ask if the new cluster was in yet. Turns out it came in this morning, they swapped it out already, and were already seeing the same issue. Which confirms it is not a cluster-specific problem. I called during rush hour for them, so he didn't have much time for me to ask any other questions. He told me that the lead technician on the case has no idea what it could be, and that they have contacted Chrysler again to see what their next idea is. The service rep believes that I'm the only person in the country that has had this problem. He could not give me a timeline to expect. I am fine with waiting, because New Mexico law states that after 30 cumulative days in the shop for the same problem that the vehicle can be considered a lemon and I am at about 18. I love the truck, I wish I could drive it for the next 15 years but this whole ordeal will be hard to forget about when I'm trying to camp 15 miles from pavement and out where there is no cell service.

[14PowerWaggy]

I'm really sorry to hear about your experiences with this truck... For what it's worth, I had to go through the Lemon Law process with my 14 Wagon... It had an engine problem that I noticed on day 3 of ownership... It was a long and painful process and at times I said I would never own a RAM again... I spent more time in a loaner vehicle than I did getting to drive my $50K truck... I went through the process as patiently as I could and documented my problems along the way... I bugged the heck out of Chrysler, calling or emailing them almost daily... If I had to suffer I wanted them to suffer right along with me... Truth is that once you get to the process where they are going to buy back or replace the lemon vehicle it gets turned over to a company called Impartial Services Group and they are just that... IMPARTIAL and they do not care about you... They are going to make sure all their I's are dotted and T's crossed... They do not move fast... I was finally told that I could go to the dealer and order a 15 Wagon exactly like I wanted... Only thing I would be responsible for was any features I added that drove the cost above the MSRP of the 14 Wagon that was a lemon... I decided that I would go ahead and add all the features that I wanted and ended up paying about $4,000 out of my pocket, but I was getting exactly what I wanted... I took delivery of the 15 wagon in April and I tell you this... When the truck is right it is a fantastic feeling... Knock on wood, I've had no issues with the 15 and was finally experiencing all the things that I was reading about from all the new PW owners on here... The 14 was a complete turd compared to the current 15... I wish you the best of luck along this journey... If you have any questions then feel free to email me at brentandpaige@bellsouth.net I'll be happy to provide any assistance I can give...

[adeluca73]

Wow--really sucks , such a strange error process, I'm a bit vexed. Since it's only happening in 4Hi, & the trans isn't really overheating, & the instruments weren't faulty, then something is going on to the trans when you put the transfer case in 4Hi. Maybe it's as simple as the sensor is bad, or maybe the entire trans is bad...

[olyelr]

... or maybe the entire trans is bad...

Thats probly what chrysler will do next... replace the trans.

[loveracing1988]

Wow--really sucks , such a strange error process, I'm a bit vexed. Since it's only happening in 4Hi, & the trans isn't really overheating, & the instruments weren't faulty, then something is going on to the trans when you put the transfer case in 4Hi. Maybe it's as simple as the sensor is bad, or maybe the entire trans is bad...

My guess would be the temp sensor has a momentary short that the computer picks up but the dash doesn't show.

[nfb]

Wow--really sucks , such a strange error process, I'm a bit vexed. Since it's only happening in 4Hi, & the trans isn't really overheating, & the instruments weren't faulty, then something is going on to the trans when you put the transfer case in 4Hi. Maybe it's as simple as the sensor is bad, or maybe the entire trans is bad...

So the last time I drove it with the tech, I actually got the same error in 2wd while lightly power braking.

I spoke to the service rep yesterday and he said the next step is to order and replace "a module." He wasn't sure which one so I'll have to wait until Monday to ask the technician. I also whined enough that they will be putting me in a loaner on Monday. By my count if this repair doesn't work, that will be 3 out of the 4 required attempts to fix this issue. It should also bring it close to or over the 30 day requirement.

[nfb]

I'm really sorry to hear about your experiences with this truck... For what it's worth, I had to go through the Lemon Law process with my 14 Wagon......

Thank you. Depending on how things go the next couple weeks, I may indeed be hitting you up.

[nfb]

Talked to the service rep again today. All he could tell me was that the Chrysler master tech heading the STAR case said that the next step is replacing the transmission solenoid pack and one other solenoid I can't remember. Also after 3 weeks of not having a truck they finally set me up with a loaner to act in lieu of my power wagon. A 1500.lol. I mean it beats a minivan or something, but it is a little ironic that after all the work I've done to get out of my 1500 I wound up right back in one.

On a seperate note, the '16 1500 with the 5.7 and 8-speed I'm in gets phenomenal gas mileage.