AEV Ram suspension.

olyelr · Post by **olyelr** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:12 pm

Well, I have been considering this kit (if I ever actually get myself a PW) until I read the red print at the bottom of there website that they recently added...

Please Note: Installation of this suspension system on a 2014+ Ram Power Wagon truck will require the purchase of new front and rear coil springs, Mopar PN: 68172091AA (front) and 68091216AA (rear)

Pffff. Forget that I guess. The few extra inches with the power wagon springs must be too much over the top for their kit (geometry wise).

MoparToYou · Post by **MoparToYou** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:04 pm

And with the new springs you get a higher spring rate, less suspension articulation, and a poorer functioning suspension. Doesn't sound like too good of an idea to me either.

olyelr · Post by **olyelr** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:16 am

MoparToYou wrote:And with the new springs you get a higher spring rate, less suspension articulation, and a poorer functioning suspension. Doesn't sound like too good of an idea to me either.

Exactly. Its the springs for the regular Ram 2500. Seems like taking a step back to me. But that being said, AEV does know their stuff so...

My thoughts are, 3" over top of a regular ram height is most likely where AEV feels comfortable with the geometry of their kit. Their kit on PW springs is going to be more like 5" over a regular height ram. At that height, I think more geometry changes would be needed to suite their fancy.

I have kind of brainstormed a way around it, if one would want to use their kit with a PW and still keep the soft springs, but not sure it is really all that worth it. You could buy their kit in all it's glory, but don't use their 3" spacers for lift. Instead use some 1" spacers from traxda or some other spacer company. You will get the same height, but get to keep your PW springs. Seems like a lot of money for a bunch of added brackets and one inch of lift, but that is essentially what you are going to get when installing their kit on a PW if you use the non PW springs like they require.

I dont understand why they just cant engineer a specific system for the PW, utilizing the PW springs.

C'mon AEV, you start up making off road accessories for the Ram and you dont even sell a kit specific to Ram's most capable off road rig, the iconic power wagon. Sure it fits the rig once you replace the factory springs with regular 2500 springs, but that is a cheesy loophole that many are not going to be willing to squeeze through.

04Ram2500Hemi · Post by **04Ram2500Hemi** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:59 am

Part of what I've seen is they swap out the springs in the front because their bumper is so damn heavy, especially after you move the winch. I like a lot of the AEV components, but I'm not sold on the suspension.

olyelr · Post by **olyelr** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:16 am

04Ram2500Hemi wrote:I like a lot of the AEV components, but I'm not sold on the suspension.

Thats because they dont have one for your mode truck lol. JK

I think it is probably a great kit for a regular ram truck. But on a power wagon, you will realy only be gaining an inch of lift and also removing the supposedly better springs. Sounds like a lot of money to me for not much gain (if any gain at all).

I wonder if geometry wise the kit would work using the stock springs, but they just dont recommend it because of the sag with their bumper?

Colibri · Post by **Colibri** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:45 am

I like many of AEV's products, I have their highline conversion on one of my wranglers in fact, but I would not ever run one of there suspension systems. Their bumpers and body panels etc are all top notch but I do not trust the geometry correction bracketry to survive under anything I drive. I understand and agree with the concept but not the execution.

04Ram2500Hemi · Post by **04Ram2500Hemi** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:46 pm

olyelr wrote:
04Ram2500Hemi wrote:I like a lot of the AEV components, but I'm not sold on the suspension.
Thats because they dont have one for your mode truck lol. JK

Well, there is that...

2wagons1driveway · Post by **2wagons1driveway** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:52 pm

04Ram2500Hemi wrote:Part of what I've seen is they swap out the springs in the front because their bumper is so damn heavy, especially after you move the winch. I like a lot of the AEV components, but I'm not sold on the suspension.

agreed. Why not just run diesel soft coils from Thuren and that heavy ass bumper.

Sent from Canada

04Ram2500Hemi · Post by **04Ram2500Hemi** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:40 pm

This was posted by AEV Dave on the AEV forum. I thought y'all might find this interesting.

The PW does sit about 1.5" taller in the front and 1" in the rear.
The PW springs do have less load capacity in the front (FGAWR 4700 vs 5500)

In order to fit the AEV kit, the non-PW springs must be used to get the geometry correct. It was designed to be a 3" lift in the front, 2" in the rear over the non PW height. The 3" lift from the standard height as well as the way the kit moves the axle forward is plenty to run 37s. Its important that the front AND rear springs are swapped in order to have the proper frequencies (think the front end bouncing at one rate and the rear bouncing much faster...they need to be designed as a matched set!) The part numbers are in the instructions. No noticeable difference in articulation.
If you were to use the PW springs the steering would be off and frankly you just don't need that much lift. You do need the added capacity when running a bumper and winch and gear which is how we consider most AEV customers.

The ProCal will work to adjust tire size and gear ratio.

Currently there are no gears on the market for the new trucks other than 4.10 but we're working hard to change that. We should have 4.56 available soon and hopefully 4.88 which is what would be necessary for a gas truck to run the 40s.

olyelr · Post by **olyelr** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:48 pm

Thanks for posting that 04.

I should stop on by that there AEV forum place and see what is going on over there.

2011RPW · Post by **2011RPW** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:32 pm

What does the AEV lift consist of? Just spacers?

olyelr · Post by **olyelr** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:12 pm

2011RPW wrote:What does the AEV lift consist of? Just spacers?

And a lot of brackets to get all the geometry back into check.

2011RPW · Post by **2011RPW** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:23 pm

Seems like a lot of work and more money than it's worth.

olyelr · Post by **olyelr** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:22 pm

For those who are thinking the AEV lift is just a typical cheap kit with a few spacers, here is a good bit of information about it that I read on another forum. This is written by a fella from AEV...

Wow! Where to start?!?!

First, I'll ask for the benefit of the doubt on the "spacer" lift and what that really means. I know as well as all of you that a "spacer kit" has certain connotations that are hard to overcome, but let me take a stab at correcting some of the misinformation on the first 4 pages of this post and see if I can't swing some of you who are willing to listen/read. This isn't some pc of sewer pipe with two flanges welded to it and stacked on top of the spring

Keep in mind a few things:

AEV certainly knows how to do spring engineering, in fact, I would argue that between Jim and Dave Yegge (former chassis engineer on TJ and JK) we have more knowledge and spring engineering capability than any of the "enthusiast turn suspension company's" in our industry. I would also argue it would have been cheaper/easier and faster for us to spec and make springs than to go the route we did.
The cast aluminum spacers we use are far more expensive than springs with far lower ability to mark up from a business standpoint. Springs are relatively cheap. We did this because it was the best way, not the cheapest.
The spacers are a relatively small part of the kit. The forged draglink, trackbar, geometry correction and shocks all play into the kit in big ways. Don't forget the kit comes with a procal to correct for tire size and gear ratio because we don't just leave it up to our customers to figure it out. All that is important to make sure things like ESP are working properly.
While AEV does sell a lot of parts into Jeep and has had a relationship building show cars for nearly 20 years, we are not "part of Mopar" in fact with the Jeep they now sell their own kits and with the Ram they sell I believe a rebadged Superlift kit.
Jim Frens formerly of Jeep/Chrysler, Nth Degree and AEV still does all of our suspension design and is responsible for all the engineering in this kit. Personally I am very proud of this kit and Jim's work. Though this kit is unconventional, we went through much more expense for what is routine in the aftermarket, I think its our best work yet.
Our intent for this suspension was not to try and make the Ram a rock crawler, a pretend trophy truck, or something that was all looks, aka 12" lift with fancy shocks. Our intent was to increase the off-road capability but not ruin the truck in terms of what 99% of people use these trucks for, everyday driving, towing, and load carrying. That meant low lift, big tires, proper geometry and OE engineering.

On to the (front) suspension:

We started with the steering, in order to not have the issues most lifted Rams have, we kept the steering angles stock, to do that we forged a new draglink that flips the TRE onto the top of the knuckle as we pioneered and have been doing on the JK since its introduction. This flip set the height, 3".

In order to fit 37s on with only 3", that dictated moving the axle forward, in order to do this we needed to make an all new trackbar and geometry correction bracketry for both the control arms and the trackbar.

Since our stated goal was to keep the MILLIONS OF $$$ in OE engineering, we decided to base the lift portion on the stock springs since we realistically could increase travel (ours has 5" of uptravel vs 4" with OE and most aftermarket) without yielding the springs.

Anyone who has ever been involved with car companies knows that they don't do things that cost money if they don't have to. The new Ram has 44 front spring part numbers, 18 for the rear of a 2500. The front springs are specifically matched to the rear springs for frequency tuning and is critical to making the truck ride correctly. In the aftermarket, you'll typically see one rear spring and two front springs (gas/diesel) THATS A MAJOR ISSUE. I'll be honest, we can't and I don't think there is a single aftermarket company out there than can inventory 44 front springs and 18 rear springs, nor could any of our dealers inventory any of that. The customers ends up throwing out away springs that Ram thought was so important that they couldn't get away with less. For those who don't understand why there are so many, it has to do with weight, wheelbase, cab style, and options and capabilities that you, the customer, specified when you went out and specifically bought a Cummins, manual trans, megacab with a 6'4" bed. Yes the springs are very different than a gas auto single cab longbed with a tow package. Remember our goal was to not ruin the truck's capabilities for what most people use them for.

There are spacers and then there are spacers. Ours is a cast aluminum 3" spacer on the bottom of the spring attached to the axle which allows the spring to maintain its inward camber as designed but that gets eliminated with an aftermarket spring, it gives 3" of lift, it allows us to move the axle forward in vehicle position and it gives us a way to mount the steel jounce spacer where it will actually work. Those extended urethane jounce spacers in most kits will take very few actual hits before they fracture. This kit has been through extensive durability testing that would destroy most kits on the market.

Here are a few pics, note the camber when viewed from the front that our spacers retain but a taller spring eliminates and causes an "S" to form in the spring. You can also see how the spacer ties together with the trackbar brackets and jounce spacer. Also visible is the draglink flip.
AEV 3" lift-frt2capture.jpg
AEV 3" lift-frt1capture.jpg

Hopefully this sheds some light on why AEV went with what at first seems like a really bad way to go...the dreaded cheap spacer kit...In reality after looking at the problem extensively, the spacers were the right way to go on the Ram and in fact the springs where the cheaper easier route with less performance.

All parts made in USA. I wanted to add more pics, but this forum wont let me. dave@aev-conversions.com if anyone wants to email me personally.

Troll away! (well not too hard please)

dh

olyelr · Post by **olyelr** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:26 pm

I am adding the two pictures that he had in his post (which did not show up with the 'copy and paste').

olyelr · Post by **olyelr** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:33 pm

SOOOO, I see that my original thoughts of using this kit with the PW springs and aftermarket 1" spacers (instead of their 3" spacers and regular Ram coils) is not really feasible, as the front axle is supposed to be pushed forward (which other aftermarket front spacers do not do).

04Ram2500Hemi · Post by **04Ram2500Hemi** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:42 pm

Olyeir- that's some good info from Dave at AEV. I'd be curious to see which forum that came from to read the whole thread.

olyelr · Post by **olyelr** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:24 am

04Ram2500Hemi wrote:Olyeir- that's some good info from Dave at AEV. I'd be curious to see which forum that came from to read the whole thread.

Cummins forum. Was a lot of badmouthing going on. Dave pretty much shut them all up after his explanation.

2011RPW · Post by **2011RPW** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:00 am

I still don't get what AEV thinks they have. Sounds good, but reading that just reminded me of a used car salesman, smoke and mirrors.
Nothing was really explained. They want to use an excuse of 44 different coil part numbers? So what? The RIGHT aftermarket coil will make an oe coil obsolete, with far better benefits. Like I said smoke and mirrors, at a ridiculous cost to the end user.

olyelr · Post by **olyelr** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:22 am

2011RPW wrote:I still don't get what AEV thinks they have. Sounds good, but reading that just reminded me of a used car salesman, smoke and mirrors.
Nothing was really explained. They want to use an excuse of 44 different coil part numbers? So what? The RIGHT aftermarket coil will make an oe coil obsolete, with far better benefits. Like I said smoke and mirrors, at a ridiculous cost to the end user.

Nothing was explained? I learned quite a bit of info from his explanation. And of course he sounds like a used car salesman... so would Thuren, Carli, BDS or anyone else talking about their kits.

Personally I am still on the fence about it. The whole idea of spacers I just simply don't like. But after reading more about it I kind of see why they went that route.

What it really boils down to is how well does the kit function. He claims they actually gained an inch of uptravel with the kit which is really pretty crazy. I would love to see a side by side comparison with other systems out there, with real world testing for what this kit was intended for. Obviously, if you want a Ram truck to rip through the desert or whooped out dunes at 60MPH than you should look at a kit from Carli or Thuren. That is not what this kit is for. But, if you are planning on using your truck as a work truck, towing, hauling and just want another 3" in height than this kit seems pretty worthwhile to me.

2011RPW · Post by **2011RPW** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:12 am

I haven't heard a specific price point for the AEV 3" system, but I assure you, I get more out of the $1600 worth of Thuren I have currently, then I imagine I would get from AEV, and I don't pound whoops.
It sounds like to me, it's foray into the ram truck world, where they're version of "R&D" has nothing compared to Thuren or Carli. From what I've read and seen, AEV, is nothing more than another off the shelf lift system, purely for fitting bigger tires and not a significant ride increase, or articulation. Point us, dollar for dollar, AEV suspension is just another name, with nothing new. Nothing significant.

2011TXPowerWagon · Post by **2011TXPowerWagon** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:42 am

According to the website they only make suspensions for 2014+ and they are starting at $2050.

2011RPW · Post by **2011RPW** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:07 am

Plus the cost of buying another set of factory coils...

Colibri · Post by **Colibri** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:31 am

Thats a lot of money to spend to gain so very little. Factory suspension is a bundle of compromise meant to serve the needs of the largest market segment possible while keeping production cost low enough to maintain adequate profit margins. It sounds like for 2k you get to enjoy what you've already got and the only real gain is an extra inch of uptravel.

15wbpw · Post by **15wbpw** » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:52 pm

Good explanation. But I still think they should have tried to work with a power wagon to keep the stock springs. They're a softer spring rate. We bought this truck for is suspension capabilities. I know with how much engineering went into this they could find a way to use our Springs with a smaller spacer and still dial the geometry in

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