2014+ Suspension/Lift Options = NOTHING

[OffroadTreks]

I buy them based on design, quality, fit for purpose and my own experience using them.

That's value. You just said you don't and then you said you did. That's getting good value for your money. Paying because something is cheap in leu of that, is not value. Neither is over paying in leu of that.

I still don't know what the fuss is?

I just wanted to know why I couldn't find taller springs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[rkgzx9leftcoast]

Yeah, I have Thuren front coils and stock rears with a replacement Fox Shock. I thought I would want to retain factory towing/payload, but now that I am interested in going off-road more, I am thinking of switching to his rear springs, track-bar for sure, and Kings at some point. Carli kit is super nice, but they are proud of it, and have openly stated that the valving in their shocks is for the general condenses of softer highway ride and complimentary off road ride.

I almost went with DOR front springs/shocks, but Thuren came out with his Hemi coils right about that time. I think DOR stuff might be pretty good, I am still thinking of trying his new arms for the front. His rear arms look pretty cool as well. I think if you tow the spring rates from the aftermarket would be so close to stock for that type of spring that it doesn't warrant them making a new spring...if that makes sense, as most will say they are switching out for a softer every day ride.

Carli tells the diesel guys to use air bags, helpers, ect for towing, and they seem to make it sound like some of the options are easy swap out ?? I understand your frustration, but I would strongly suggest installing Thuren 1.5 Inch front kit and going from there. His quality is second to none!!!! I have 37s on mine and a lot of it is air pressure truthfully, I dont think you can get away from the fact that we are in a 3/4 ton truck....

On Carli's site it states that their rear Springs will maintain the factory payload. Thuren's site says that you will need air bags if you tow or haul a lot.

Yeah, if you look for pics of the Carli springs they show them squatting with the bed loaded, it has a LOT more squat than stock, have also seen pics of people towing with a lot of tongue weight with carli, a lot of squat. Anyone who has used carli needs helper bags as well. seems anything other that stock spring has a lot of squat for towing.

[rkgzx9leftcoast]

I buy them based on design, quality, fit for purpose and my own experience using them.

That's value. You just said you don't and then you said you did. That's getting good value for your money. Paying because something is cheap in leu of that, is not value. Neither is over paying in leu of that.

I still don't know what the fuss is?

I just wanted to know why I couldn't find taller springs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have seen Don and Aaron talk about lift on these 4th gen trucks on other forums, and they dont like to go over 3 Inches, mostly he is talking about the front, but the rear does some strange things as well with more than 1 inch level in rear, effects Track Bar, Sway bar , ect...... might be why ?

[TwinStick]

This is just what came up quickly. I would seriously think about contacting a custom spring maker to get what you want. Just give them your specs of wanting a 1" lift while carrying xxxx amount of weight.


http://www.advanexusa.com/product/compr ... aQod070BLA

http://www.bettsspring.com/coil-springs

https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/

http://www.bluecoilspring.com/

https://www.springworks.com/custom-coil-springs/

http://coilsprings.com/

[DamageWagon]

Betts is the largest manufacturer. They might be the cheapest.

[Rodeoflyer]

Roll center, steering, ball joints, bushings will all be affected when you lift your truck more than 3". Some people could care less and think it's great until they start dealing with death wobble and worn components but I assume that's why Thuren and any other reputable companies don't advise it.

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[OffroadTreks]

I want 12 inches of lift for my 44 inch tires and 20 inch wheels.

[Rodeoflyer]

I know...that's not what your beef is about

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[OffroadTreks]

It would really help with all the confusion if there was some better understanding of performance associated with the springs in published data on both of the two big brands sites. Like I said earlier, it'd be great to get together and do some side by sides tests.

Carli states this "50% more suspension travel than the factory platform" and Thuren says "coils provide about 40% more down travel than stock" (taken directly from both sites.

Thuren stated via an email that for a PW his coils are 20% softer than existing ride.

Let's say we're getting 10 inches of downward travel now stock. So 50% more than factory is 15 inches of downward travel. Thuren's site states they will sag like a 1500, but that's when compared to a stock 2500, not the PW. Our trucks already are soft, so is it 20% more sag?

I just kind of want some of the finer points cleared up for me, so I can understand, cause I'm stupid.

Towing aside, what I don't want to do is mess up an already great suspension.

[Hammerballs]

I'm interested in doing the full Thuren King kit probably on 35s until I can convince myself and afford a re-gear. One question I have is I am planning to purchase an off-road RTT travel trailer such as offered by Turtleback. So about 2500lbs fully loaded and around 300lb tongue weight give or take I think. Probably some gear in the truck bed too. Will the Thuren rear coils be too soft for this setup? Like Mike, I want to raise my front but maintain the rake for towing but also improve performance. What are the negatives to the Thuren front coils and a 1" block on the stock rear coils? Does the rear lose performance with the block?

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[rkgzx9leftcoast]

I'm interested in doing the full Thuren King kit probably on 35s until I can convince myself and afford a re-gear. One question I have is I am planning to purchase an off-road RTT travel trailer such as offered by Turtleback. So about 2500lbs fully loaded and around 300lb tongue weight give or take I think. Probably some gear in the truck bed too. Will the Thuren rear coils be too soft for this setup? Like Mike, I want to raise my front but maintain the rake for towing but also improve performance. What are the negatives to the Thuren front coils and a 1" block on the stock rear coils? Does the rear lose performance with the block?

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I Have the Thuren front kit on mine, and there really isnt any down side I can tell. He spent a lot of time making sure the lift will not cause any ill effects in steering/handling. He knows these trucks as well as anyone. On the rear lift blocks, the PW sits 1 inch higher that stock or diesel trucks so his springs or carli for the rear only add the same lift or a little less. If you add 1 inch spacer it may effect your drag link/sway bar.

AEV puts a 2 inch rear spacer with their kit, which is an inch over the lifted springs, but changes the drag link/sway bar mounts. I would call and talk to Don or Aaron at Thuren about their front kit and his thoughts on rear spacers. He does have some pics on his Instagram. linked on his sit,e with pics of him hooked to his travel trailer, his springs do have a good amount of squat.

[coder]

I buy them based on design, quality, fit for purpose and my own experience using them.

That's value. You just said you don't and then you said you did. That's getting good value for your money. Paying because something is cheap in leu of that, is not value. Neither is over paying in leu of that.

I know what you're saying there are two ways to think of value. 1) The importance of something (noun), 2) the monetary worth of something (verb), so when you said $6265.00 was seamed too much for the Carli kit I assumed you meant monetary value so that was the emphasis of my post, if you want the best kit regardless of cost that's another topic.

Honestly I find the easiest way to approach a design suspension or anything else, is to first figure out what the end goal is ,what are expecting from the suspension, flex or speed, or just more lift for taller tires, etc. Then you can pick a system that gives you those features and avoid overspending to get things you don't care as much about.

If you primarily want more lift without all the high speed stuff Pure Performance as 4.5 lifts I believe starting under $2000.
http://www.pure-performance.biz

[TwinStick]

It would really help with all the confusion if there was some better understanding of performance associated with the springs in published data on both of the two big brands sites. Like I said earlier, it'd be great to get together and do some side by sides tests.

Carli states this "50% more suspension travel than the factory platform" and Thuren says "coils provide about 40% more down travel than stock" (taken directly from both sites.

Thuren stated via an email that for a PW his coils are 20% softer than existing ride.

Let's say we're getting 10 inches of downward travel now stock. So 50% more than factory is 15 inches of downward travel. Thuren's site states they will sag like a 1500, but that's when compared to a stock 2500, not the PW. Our trucks already are soft, so is it 20% more sag?

I just kind of want some of the finer points cleared up for me, so I can understand, cause I'm stupid.

Towing aside, what I don't want to do is mess up an already great suspension.

FWIW. here is my opinion: One area (towing) makes the other area (nice ride & off-road flex) suffer. It's just the way it is. Yes, there IS a happy medium, but it may cost you thousands of dollars to find it. The simplest things to do is: 1) Keep the stock rear coils (because they are stiffer than Carli's or Thuren's) and have 2 sets of rear shocks, 1 pr for towing & 1 pr for go fast. The towing rear shocks could even be the HD overload shocks with the coil springs on them. 2) Get some air bags. Filled when you need them, empty when you don't. Or some Timbren's.

Their coils are softer than stock, that's why they claim a more compliant ride. Pickup trucks, by their very nature are a compromise between ride quality empty & towing/hauling capacity when loaded. I kept my stock rear springs & put a set of Hellwig Load Pro 35's on for towing. The set up works great. In 10-15 minutes or less, I can remove the outer most nuts on each side & I have full flex returned. Helper springs stay in place with the center most bolts. Also, because we tow with ours, I have not lifted it. I have seen in person, a 4Dr, CC, 8' box F-350 SRW, that was lifted high, running 38's, pulling a custom made, custom suspended 5th wheel trailer, with matching tires. It was awesome. It was around 15 yrs ago at Watkins Glen Int. Raceway. He was a lottery winner & had over a $1/4 million into it. So, anything can be done if you have enough money. I think if you wait a few years, you will have more options from the aftermarket.

[OffroadTreks]

You turd gen guys keep missing it.

[RustyPW]

You 3rd gen guys keep missing it.

No.........................we have it together..............you 4turd guys missed the boat.

Think I know what you want. And no one makes it. You will end up with springs and air bags to get the results you want.

[nts007]

I hear all the newest rage is removing those awful coil springs and replacing with full leaf packs. Best compromise between ride and load. Easy to air bag. Less than half the required bushings. No track bar. No sway bar. Getting more height without compromising geometry...... a real multi -pro design.

[olyelr]

Why do you want the truck higher? More ground clearance? To run 37's?

37's fit stock with minor trimming and the correct wheel. Even with a small lift, unless you add taller bump-stops you will still most likely need trimming for 37's.

If its for more ground clearance, then put Thuren springs up front (sounds like that is about all the lift you want). Leave the stock springs in the rear, as they are a smidge stiffer, smidge taller and perform plenty good enough. Your truck will still have a small rake with his springs up front and the stock in back when unloaded. If it is too nose high when towing your trailer, then add a set of air bags. You already have onboard air to fill them when needed, and they will not ruin your off road prowess at all when empty.

If you didnt like the near level stance you could add a 1" spacer in the back (you would be dang close to your stock rake then). All you would really need to do if you added a spacer is just assure the coils dont bind without more bumpstop (and of course shocks, which I am sure you are planning on). Also, adding Thurens rear trackbar setup is apparently a nice addition.

[DamageWagon]

Because of the type of rear suspension (link, Trackbar, cool sprung) it is true that there isn't a solid combination of payload and ride quality. Two sets of shocks also makes zero sense. Bypass shocks make perfect sense though, you can adjust between loaded and unloaded settings easily.

Really you need air bags or Timbrens or sumos for the rear (if you go Timbrens or sumos I might be able to make you a quick-disconnect bracket so you can swap between those and Thurens bump stops if you wanted to go that route). For the front, do whatever the heck you want.

I haven't looked into them at all but I just saw a guy with a Reytek spacer lift. Don't know if they do anything cool but thought I'd throw them out there.

[olyelr]

Because of the type of rear suspension (link, Trackbar, cool sprung) it is true that there isn't a solid combination of payload and ride quality. Two sets of shocks also makes zero sense. Bypass shocks make perfect sense though, you can adjust between loaded and unloaded settings easily.

But shocks will offer nothing against the rear end squat, correct (just stiffer/looser dampening)?

Really you need air bags or Timbrens or sumos for the rear (if you go Timbrens or sumos I might be able to make you a quick-disconnect bracket so you can swap between those and Thurens bump stops if you wanted to go that route). For the front, do whatever the heck you want.

^^^ This guy has got to be about due for a beer by now.

I haven't looked into them at all but I just saw a guy with a Reytek spacer lift. Don't know if they do anything cool but thought I'd throw them out there.

That is the one thing I like about the AEV spacer kit... it is basically the stock suspension, except it is taller. My truck suspension is just fine for me in stock form, but I want it just a bit taller. Problem is, I think 3" over the stock PW height is a bit too tall (and I would not want to change out the PW coils). And I like the axle moving forward an inch, and I like the steering correction setup (except stock wheels are not usable with it).

[DamageWagon]

Ha thanks Olyer. You are correct, shocks really have no "spring" capacity to them. Technically they have some (nitrogen pressure times the volume displaced by the shaft inside the cylinder) but it is effectively near to nothing. The point of the shocks is only to control the suspension. The extent at which shocks make a difference is huge though once you get nice shocks and have an example. For instance, even with a camper on my truck and no swaybar and big soft shocks, all I had to do was open up my compression tubes and close in my rebound tubes on my rear bypasses and almost all of my body roll went away, but there is still just enough to be fun. Bypasses rock. Big shocks rock.

[OffroadTreks]

you 4turd guys missed the boat.

That's not as funny as turd gen

It's just an open ended thinking out loud bsing thread. Also never said I wanted 3 over stock. Getting an inch higher is ideal. I can do that with 37's. One of my big concerns with the AEV kit is you add a spacer but then your down travel and compression seems to be compromised. It would probably be fine for towing since stock 2500 springs. Thurens seem like they'll improve downward travel but also put the truck nose high with any load. I want to run a RTT too occasionally.

I think Marcus has a good idea and I kind have an idea figured out for what we're doing for phase two of the truck build. Some fab work first. Then the tires are getting replaced and shocks after the summer. These should be worn out by then.

In the mean time, trolling in real life. These are for the sliders.

[olyelr]

Hahahahah.

You guys need this on the back of your shirts for next year...

[DamageWagon]

Hahahahah.

You guys need this on the back of your shirts for next year...

You mean WE, right? Because you're going to be there? And yes I agree that should be on the shirts

[OffroadTreks]

2018 is going to be "Do I need lockers for this"

It's an in joke for those who attended.

[olyelr]

Hahahahah.

You guys need this on the back of your shirts for next year...

You mean WE, right? Because you're going to be there? And yes I agree that should be on the shirts

Baaaahaha. I cant come along unless there is Starbucks and Dairy Queen drive-through's on the trail.