First Epic Power Wagon Fail

[ramv]

Wouldn't my 2nd gen be superior to the 3rd gen PW?

Shorter wheelbase, no electronic controls, 4:1 T-case, lockers, beadlocks, It leaks a lot though, no doors.

J/k, I know what you mean, my '05 Avalanche I felt was kind of the peak in reliability and maintenance (coil on plug, longstroke big block), and lack of nannys (no ESC, traction control etc.) However, in reality, once it had 200k miles on it and was over a decade old, it lost some of the luster. I hated 4whl ABS when it came out in the '99 Chevys. I liked my 2nd Gen Ram and my '93 Ranger for RABS only, however it was much better in the 2005 Chevy than the 99/00 Chevys I had for work.

New PW is the best truck on the market. If you don't need a truck, the JK Rubicon is the way to go.

[Reloaderguy]

Panty hook on the '05's.

Why do you take them off, do the cabs really leak that bad in the old trucks?

Do you know what the panty hook is?

The hook on the dash below the PS vent. Was that supposed to be a secret?

[waldo]

You guys and your damn dinosaur trucks!

The 3G's will become the new pre 64's PW's. The '05's and '09's the most wanted. The '05's because of it being the first year, and the '09's because of the most HP from the 5.7 Hemi.

You're kidding yourself. This is like when the YJ owners tried to convince the TJ owners that YJ's were going to be a valued vintage. The fact is the Gen 4/4.5 (especially 4.5) is a better vehicle engineering and quality wise. Daimler just about ran Chrysler into the ground; quality under Daimler was absolutely terrible. It's true there were some options available in Gen 3 that are not available today but that doesn't make the engineering or quality better. One of the philosophies under Daimler was profitability increase through reduction of material and quality cost (this appeared in financials); FCA on the other hand is maximizing profits via quality control claim frequency and efficiency. FCA is intentionally building better vehicles to reduce cost...and it shows in every metric available through the supply chain. That is not to say RAM is perfect, because it has a long way to go, but 2010 and new vehicles are quantifiably better.

Perhaps there are some qualities you like about the older platform but as a user I would (and did) avoid Gen 3 like the plague. This ain't your grandpappy's Packard, technology and QC are marching on with time and nostalgia will only get you so far.

I have both and prefer the 07 3G over the 16, especially offroad. There's not much to like about the new one. The steering gear is about it. The transmission acts like it's got a drunk controlling it.

[FirerescuePW]

You guys and your damn dinosaur trucks!

The 3G's will become the new pre 64's PW's. The '05's and '09's the most wanted. The '05's because of it being the first year, and the '09's because of the most HP from the 5.7 Hemi.

You're kidding yourself. This is like when the YJ owners tried to convince the TJ owners that YJ's were going to be a valued vintage. The fact is the Gen 4/4.5 (especially 4.5) is a better vehicle engineering and quality wise. Daimler just about ran Chrysler into the ground; quality under Daimler was absolutely terrible. It's true there were some options available in Gen 3 that are not available today but that doesn't make the engineering or quality better. One of the philosophies under Daimler was profitability increase through reduction of material and quality cost (this appeared in financials); FCA on the other hand is maximizing profits via quality control claim frequency and efficiency. FCA is intentionally building better vehicles to reduce cost...and it shows in every metric available through the supply chain. That is not to say RAM is perfect, because it has a long way to go, but 2010 and new vehicles are quantifiably better.

Perhaps there are some qualities you like about the older platform but as a user I would (and did) avoid Gen 3 like the plague. This ain't your grandpappy's Packard, technology and QC are marching on with time and nostalgia will only get you so far.

The difference there is the YJ guys were wrong.

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[Low_Sky]

Had some light snow this morning. Found an empty cul de sac, went with 4hi, turned off ESC. Much better! Even did the full sideways slide down the road. ESC is definitely the issue in 2wd.

Glad you got it figured out, Ramv! I was going to have to shame you. I did a bunch of donuts in the snow in a couple of gravel pits on the way back to anchorage today.

Despite the foot of fresh snow my truck didn't get stuck, hop uncontrollably, or try to kill me. I wonder if Snowsled (wherever he is) is feeling the hair on the back of his neck stand up.


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[Reloaderguy]

I have both and prefer the 07 3G over the 16, especially offroad. There's not much to like about the new one. The steering gear is about it. The transmission acts like it's got a drunk controlling it.

The interior in the new trucks is night and day better.

[olyelr]

[

I did a bunch of donuts in the snow in a couple of gravel pits on the way back to anchorage today.

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So you did them in 4wd? I want some 2wd fun!

In 2wd I held the traction control button for five seconds, ten seconds, with the truck stopped, with it moving, in gear, in park and get nothing more than the small skid mark light on the dash that you get with the quick push of the button. Nothing else. I can get the truck to do spins at very low speed, but if I am moving at a decent rate of speed as soon as the truck starts going sideways the damn brakes start going off in the front to straighten the truck up.

[Low_Sky]

[

I did a bunch of donuts in the snow in a couple of gravel pits on the way back to anchorage today.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So you did them in 4wd? I want some 2wd fun!

In 2wd I held the traction control button for five seconds, ten seconds, with the truck stopped, with it moving, in gear, in park and get nothing more than the small skid mark light on the dash that you get with the quick push of the button. Nothing else. I can get the truck to do spins at very low speed, but if I am moving at a decent rate of speed as soon as the truck starts going sideways the damn brakes start going off in the front to straighten the truck up.

No "ESC full off" in 2HI.

[olyelr]

No "ESC full off" in 2HI.

How do you do that?

[Low_Sky]

No "ESC full off" in 2HI.

How do you do that?

2HI - push the button for "ESC partial off" ("traction control off"). ESC cannot be turned full off in 2HI.

4HI - push the button for "ESC partial off". long-push the button for "ESC full off".

4LO - "ESC full off" is the only mode available in 4LO.

Pages 581-584 of the 2015 manual. It's all in there.

[Retired BLM Rig]

From the 2016 Manual, page# 625:

Full Off – If Equipped
This mode is intended for off-highway or off-road use only and should not be used on any public roadways. In this mode, TCS and ESC features are turned OFF. To enter
the “Full Off” mode, push and hold the “ESC Off” switch
for five seconds while the vehicle is stopped with the engine running. After five seconds, a chime will sound,
the “ESC Off Indicator Light” will illuminate, and the 5 “ESC OFF” message will display in the Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC). To turn ESC ON again, momentarily push the “ESC Off” switch.
NOTE: System may switch from ESC Full Off to Partial mode when vehicle exceeds a predetermined speed. When the vehicle speed slows below the predetermined speed the system will return to ESC Full Off.

I love the "If Equipped" disclaimer at the beginning.
It sounds like if you get your wheels spinning too fast, even in "Full Off Mode", ESC will step in and shut you down.
I wonder what that magic number is?
Time for a "Shenanigan/Nanny Bypass", or start pulling fuses.

[olyelr]

From the 2016 Manual, page# 625:

Full Off – If Equipped
This mode is intended for off-highway or off-road use only and should not be used on any public roadways. In this mode, TCS and ESC features are turned OFF. To enter
the “Full Off” mode, push and hold the “ESC Off” switch
for five seconds while the vehicle is stopped with the engine running. After five seconds, a chime will sound,
the “ESC Off Indicator Light” will illuminate, and the 5 “ESC OFF” message will display in the Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC). To turn ESC ON again, momentarily push the “ESC Off” switch.
NOTE: System may switch from ESC Full Off to Partial mode when vehicle exceeds a predetermined speed. When the vehicle speed slows below the predetermined speed the system will return to ESC Full Off.

I love the "If Equipped" disclaimer at the beginning.
It sounds like if you get your wheels spinning too fast, even in "Full Off Mode", ESC will step in and shut you down.
I wonder what that magic number is?
Time for a "Shenanigan/Nanny Bypass", or start pulling fuses.

I like the idea of a shenanigan/nanny bypass switch. Whos got the kahunas to be the guinea pig?

[olyelr]

No "ESC full off" in 2HI.

How do you do that?

2HI - push the button for "ESC partial off" ("traction control off"). ESC cannot be turned full off in 2HI.

4HI - push the button for "ESC partial off". long-push the button for "ESC full off".

4LO - "ESC full off" is the only mode available in 4LO.

Pages 581-584 of the 2015 manual. It's all in there.

Thanks low sky.

[nts007]

I'd take my old 06 any day of the week over any other year. 3G will be the one still powering through while the 4g+ are sitting on the side of the road with drivers yelling at their dash board they "were only 1mph over the speed limit you piece of **** go back into drive" and with the trucks response ...."I can't do that Dave"

[TankerZak]

No "ESC full off" in 2HI.

How do you do that?

2HI - push the button for "ESC partial off" ("traction control off"). ESC cannot be turned full off in 2HI.

4HI - push the button for "ESC partial off". long-push the button for "ESC full off".

4LO - "ESC full off" is the only mode available in 4LO.

Pages 581-584 of the 2015 manual. It's all in there.

Look, if we wanted to actually read the manual we wouldn't need a forum! <insert joke about men not reading directions here>.

On a serious note, would one of the more experienced guys with this stuff write a tutorial? Not about how you switch it off but when you should (donuts aside ).

For example:

Deep mud/snow: before you sink in 4hi, esc full off

Deep mud or snow after you sink in: 4LO (nannies off automatically) rear lockers on. Front lockers if you don't need to turn much.

Rock crawling: 4LO ( nannies off) sway bar disconnected. Use hill decent if creepong down hill.

Fording a river (30 inches or less): 4HI?

Ice: 4HI leave nannies on, lockers off?

Rain with pockets of DEEP standing water: 4HI leave nannies on

What scenario would you want traction control off but not full ESC off? When woukd lockers on be a no brainer and when would it be deteimental. These are in no way suggestions just conversation starters and a first stab at it.

It took a long time (years) for me to figure out what scenario for which nanny state with my Duramax and I didn't have to worry about lockers or a sway bar. Getting up to speed faster and getting everyone's opinion would be awesome.

[Bill2014]

... Hill Descent is Yet another Nanny...

[RustyPW]

I'd take my old 06 any day of the week over any other year. 3G will be the one still powering through while the 4g+ are sitting on the side of the road with drivers yelling at their dash board they "were only 1mph over the speed limit you piece of **** go back into drive" and with the trucks response ...."I can't do that Dave"

Guess we can call all the nannies HAL. Maybe Snowsled was on to something. And HAL got rid of him.

[olyelr]

I was very discouraged about all the electronics in my '12 JKUR when I first got it. Didnt mind them one bit when on road, but off road I couldnt stand them. Once I installed a ESC kill switch it was like I was off roading one of my old 80's toyotas! Loved it! I think I may do the same for this truck... my balls just havnt grown large enough yet.

[Reloaderguy]

You could just pull out the ABS pump fuse. I realize it's kind of hard though, Snowled went full retard because of the complexity.

[olyelr]

You could just pull out the ABS pump fuse. I realize it's kind of hard though, Snowled went full retard because of the complexity.

Now, if pulling the fuse would indeed shut all the ESC stuff off along with the ABS, would it be possible just to tap into a wire for that and put a switch on it to achieve the same thing (without having to pop the hood and pull the fuse). I am horrible with electrical stuff, so if I am way off sorry for asking, but I simply dont know.

[ramv]

What scenario would you want traction control off but not full ESC off? When woukd lockers on be a no brainer and when would it be deteimental. These are in no way suggestions just conversation starters and a first stab at it.

It took a long time (years) for me to figure out what scenario for which nanny state with my Duramax and I didn't have to worry about lockers or a sway bar. Getting up to speed faster and getting everyone's opinion would be awesome.

Bad/good weather I drive traction control off/ESC on. Same when I drive my wife's car. I want to have the ability for wheelspin starting out, but if the car want's to come around on me on the highway, I'll take any help I can get! If I am getting after it on snowy/icy roads in her car, I will go to competition mode which allows for some drifting. I was almost hit when I first got the Ram as I was accelerating out of a gravel drive on a left turn on a paved road with traffic. Traction control on, truck bogged hard and rolled slowly into traffic. Now I disengage TCS and MDS as soon as I get in.

Lockers: With the factory LSD, lockers are more for wheeling. If the engagement was more reliable, I would only engage when needed. Since the engagement is pretty random, I engage as soon as I get near anything challenging and leave them on. My second gen, I seldom engage the ARB unless I need it, but the engagement is a lot more reliable than the PW.

I agree on downhill descent. Was fine to play with a in a controlled setting, but when I was on Redcone in the snow, it was downright sketchy. The old 2nd gen with no ABS and 4 wheel discs is a lot safer in those situations.

[TankerZak]

... Hill Descent is Yet another Nanny...

Or down hill cruise control...

[ramv]

... Hill Descent is Yet another Nanny...

Or down hill cruise control...

Unless off-road. Then it gets scary quick. And turning it off isn't exactly intuitive on the center stack.

[Stickman]

I'm assuming most of you guys having the nanny issues are 14+s, so this would be an expensive fix (if it is still the same) but the DiabloSport Trinity will completely disable all TC and ABS crap on my '12 with the push of a button on the Trinity. Then to return to normal just a cycle of the key and you're back to normal factory mode. So if they still have that option on the Trinity for the 14+ trucks then that's an option, but also $1k and an ECM swap might not be everyone's cup of tea either.

[Ducky's Dad]

Ya know if y'all had '05s, you would not have needed to even start this thread.