Power Wagon's and Airstreams?

[TwinStick]

Even people who don't "off-road" their camper, like the added ground clearance. My father in law ordered a double axle camper, 15 years ago, that had an 8" lift over the reg one. He ripped the plumbing dump line off getting into a campsite at a state park. The place we used to go ATV'ing at had "speed-bumps' to keep riders from going too fast in the camp area. They were serious speed bumps. I could not take our toy hauler over them & was only able to camp in the area before the first speed bump. Lots of people had to go somewhere else as a result. I think they would not be able to keep em on the lot, if Airstream made one w/more ground clearance.

[California_RAM]

2015 Ram Tradesmen Power Wagon + 2013 30' Flying Cloud Airstream.

I agree. I love the Power Wagon/Airstream combination. It is an obvious adventure duo. Also Airstreams are light towing, when compared to farm equipment etc. so, even with reduced spring capability, the Power Wagon pulls/rides very well. It was a lot of research for me, and I purchased the above black Power Wagon, because of the airstream. I wanted a large truck to tow with, but still wanted the off road capability that I've enjoyed with smaller vehicles in the past. The real advantage is when I disconnect, and explore fire roads, and national parks in an amazing 4x4 that I'm already driving! The Magnaflow exhaust sounds great, and is an upgrade that I would recommend if you like to hear your 6.4L V8 in its true form.

[azracer]

You're wrong, sorry but it's true. Go drive over a cat scale and get back to me.

---

And just to clarify; I'm not saying that airbags won't eliminate sag, because they will. What I'm saying is, that recommending them over a Weight Distribution/Anti-sway hitch as a fix all, is SHIT advice. And that you should be running such a hitch setup, even with a 3/4 ton truck. And a quick visit to the cat scales, hitched and unhitched will reveal the weight removed from the front axle and the weight added to the rear. All you have done is hidden a symptom of a bad setup.

On the FB Group a kid just towed his 28ft and reported really bad sway because someone else gave him the, "you'll be fine advice."

While I have no reason to contradict your rant I do have a problem with your conclusion. The balance issue is a mute point at the said weight limits!

[TwinStick]

My personal experience : Any person towing a camper should have a weight distributing hitch along with the trailer anti-sway bars. It makes a WORLD of difference. I followed a Chevy Suburban, towing a 35' travel trailer, from Sullivan Co. NY, to just before Bighamton NY. All was level. All was well. Right up until the moment it wasn't. Then, he pulled out to pass a tractor-trailer. Suburban got past the rear of the trailer but as the camper started to go past the rear of the semi-trailer, it began to sway VIOLENTLY. It made him go into the center median, down a side hill & it rolled, VIOLENTLY. People were ejected & rolled over & crushed. It was REALLY BAD. 8 kids plus the parents. This was in 1988. He had no weight distributing hitch & no trailer anti-sway bars. There are a few things that could have prevented this. It was sad. I would never tow a camper without both, whether i had air bags &/or helper springs.

You can do many things wrong, with no problems, for a long time sometimes. But when things go wrong badly, the innocent usually pay for it, & they usually could have been prevented.

[Reloaderguy]

You're wrong, sorry but it's true. Go drive over a cat scale and get back to me.

---

And just to clarify; I'm not saying that airbags won't eliminate sag, because they will. What I'm saying is, that recommending them over a Weight Distribution/Anti-sway hitch as a fix all, is SHIT advice. And that you should be running such a hitch setup, even with a 3/4 ton truck. And a quick visit to the cat scales, hitched and unhitched will reveal the weight removed from the front axle and the weight added to the rear. All you have done is hidden a symptom of a bad setup.

On the FB Group a kid just towed his 28ft and reported really bad sway because someone else gave him the, "you'll be fine advice."

While I have no reason to contradict your rant I do have a problem with your conclusion. The balance issue is a mute point at the said weight limits!

Maybe if we were discussing a Cummins 2500 but gas 2500's have 800+ less pounds over the front axle. Our trucks have less braking pressure on the front tires and are worse when weighting the hitch tongue. I would say based on the rear spring rates and light front end you should consider WD for tongue weights over 600 pounds. Without WD, even light loads on the tongue, you will have reduced braking (more likely to lock up/antilock chatter) and reduced steering (more likely to understeer in turns and wobble when the front end unload in rolling bumps). Balance is specifically a major issue and doesn't matter if you use air bags or not.

[Bill2014]

You're wrong, sorry but it's true. Go drive over a cat scale and get back to me.

---

And just to clarify; I'm not saying that airbags won't eliminate sag, because they will. What I'm saying is, that recommending them over a Weight Distribution/Anti-sway hitch as a fix all, is SHIT advice. And that you should be running such a hitch setup, even with a 3/4 ton truck. And a quick visit to the cat scales, hitched and unhitched will reveal the weight removed from the front axle and the weight added to the rear. All you have done is hidden a symptom of a bad setup.

On the FB Group a kid just towed his 28ft and reported really bad sway because someone else gave him the, "you'll be fine advice."

While I have no reason to contradict your rant I do have a problem with your conclusion. The balance issue is a mute point at the said weight limits!

Maybe if we were discussing a Cummins 2500 but gas 2500's have 800+ less pounds over the front axle. Our trucks have less braking pressure on the front tires and are worse when weighting the hitch tongue. I would say based on the rear spring rates and light front end you should consider WD for tongue weights over 600 pounds. Without WD, even light loads on the tongue, you will have reduced braking (more likely to lock up/antilock chatter) and reduced steering (more likely to understeer in turns and wobble when the front end unload in rolling bumps). Balance is specifically a major issue and doesn't matter if you use air bags or not.

I'm thinking that weight difference is overstated... My '12 CTD mega cab diesel only weighs about 300 pounds more than my '14 Powerwagon with the rock sliders. Front axle on the CTD is 4620 pounds - front axle on the Powerwagon is 4360 pounds.

The requirement for a weight distributing hitch depends on many factors and you can't make a generalization for tongue weights over 600 pounds. My tongue weight often exceeds 1500 pounds - but I don't know anyone that puts weight distributing hitches on dump trailers.

[Reloaderguy]

Do you normally tow your dump trailer cross country at 80mph in mixed traffic? We're talking about travel trailers and I'm speaking specifically to the factors commonly found for that type of towing.

[nts007]

Do you normally tow your dump trailer cross country at 80mph in mixed traffic? We're talking about travel trailers and I'm speaking specifically to the factors commonly found for that type of towing.

The answer to that question is a yea. But!! Trailer design plays a huge part as well as how you load it down. Flat decks and enclosed trailers are generally heavier than travel trailers. By a fair bit. Even when empty my 30' vnose bumper hitch enclosed trailer is heavier than most of these travel trailers. And it pulls like a dream. Saying you HAVE to have a special towing hitch to tow anything is bogus. Proper loading of a trailer of any type is far more important than how long or how tall it is. Travel trailers in my mind are the worst kind of trailers not because they are really light weight or tall or not balanced well once people load them. It's people stupid enough to believe their suburban or their half ton can properly handle a load that was never meant for their vehicle platform. The shorter the wheel base of the towing vehicle the more dangerous this gets. The 3/4 ton ram platform is a very stable towing platform but things like lifting to powerwagon height and bigger tires all will contribute to less towing stability. Not to the extent of using a half ton but it's a percentage. Simply don't tow a trailer that your truck isn't meant to. Also imho too many unskilled drivers are on the road when it comes to towing holiday trailers. These are people who have never owned a truck let alone towed a trailer then decided to buy a 'truck' and take the family camping in their new 36' ultralight hooked to their new Ford F-150 that cost less then the trailer. Oh did I mention that they have never towed anything before. Sry for ranting but I see this way way too much. Just because you can does not mean you should.

[nts007]

Case and point!! Went to morning coffee. Here is what's wrong with some of these camper people!! Stupid as shit. Sales people should be shot selling someone a tow package let alone a camper to someone who pulls up in a minivan. These are the dangerous ones. 22' 3" cloud series. Weighs in at enough for a half ton. Not a minivan. 4000lbs Ish empty.
Sry guys this just gets on my nerves. You guys with the wagons and airstreams are fine. I'd be more than comfortable with you beside me on the highway. But not some of these others

Found this on the Chrysler website
The trailer tow capacity of all models of Caravan and T&C is a Max. of 3600 lbs. It breaks down as follows: 3600lb + 2 persons + 50 lbs. luggage ea., 3350lbs + 3-5 people +50lbs luggage ea, 3000lbs + 6-7 people + 50 lbs luggage ea. (Single person weight = 150lbs.

Right there is the problem. Hauling near max at max or over max. That is a croc of shit

[Will]

Case and point!! Went to morning coffee. Here is what's wrong with some of these camper people!! Stupid as shit. Sales people should be shot selling someone a tow package let alone a camper to someone who pulls up in a minivan. These are the dangerous ones. 22' 3" cloud series. Weighs in at enough for a half ton. Not a minivan. 4000lbs Ish empty.
Sry guys this just gets on my nerves. You guys with the wagons and airstreams are fine. I'd be more than comfortable with you beside me on the highway. But not some of these others

Found this on the Chrysler website
The trailer tow capacity of all models of Caravan and T&C is a Max. of 3600 lbs. It breaks down as follows: 3600lb + 2 persons + 50 lbs. luggage ea., 3350lbs + 3-5 people +50lbs luggage ea, 3000lbs + 6-7 people + 50 lbs luggage ea. (Single person weight = 150lbs.

Right there is the problem. Hauling near max at max or over max. That is a croc of shit

But they have added tow mirrors so they'll be fine.

[nts007]

I didn't see that. You're right. Whew I feel better now

[TwinStick]

I understand both sides here, really, i do. Yes, Airstreams are about the most perfectly balanced trailers there are. I get that. That being said, if the trailer is perfectly balanced it still does not mean you shouldn't have proper brakes, hitch, & anti sway bars. i know this is a bad example but you get the point. If a semi truck passed this guy, quite sure he would have his hands full. Or if a 40+ mph gust of wind caught him from the side.

[nts007]

That's impressive. But out here the wind would teach him he has one or two pieces too many lol. I love seeing pictures like that.

[MSCH2112]

Case and point!! Went to morning coffee. Here is what's wrong with some of these camper people!! Stupid as shit. Sales people should be shot selling someone a tow package let alone a camper to someone who pulls up in a minivan. These are the dangerous ones. 22' 3" cloud series. Weighs in at enough for a half ton. Not a minivan. 4000lbs Ish empty.
Sry guys this just gets on my nerves. You guys with the wagons and airstreams are fine. I'd be more than comfortable with you beside me on the highway. But not some of these others

Found this on the Chrysler website
The trailer tow capacity of all models of Caravan and T&C is a Max. of 3600 lbs. It breaks down as follows: 3600lb + 2 persons + 50 lbs. luggage ea., 3350lbs + 3-5 people +50lbs luggage ea, 3000lbs + 6-7 people + 50 lbs luggage ea. (Single person weight = 150lbs.

Right there is the problem. Hauling near max at max or over max. That is a croc of shit

our honda minivan can tow at about 3k or 3.5k. that being said, i put my 3.8k boat behind it and went around the block. yeah it handled it ok, but i wouldn't venture on a highway or up a pass with it. no way. i do use it to haul my quad trailer once in awhile and it's all good for that. .....and yes i got the tow package on the minivan....not that it really helps that much.

oh, and i do love the airstreams. just wish they had slide outs. my family of 5 needs the extra room for our sanity!

mike

[Will]

I understand both sides here, really, i do. Yes, Airstreams are about the most perfectly balanced trailers there are. I get that. That being said, if the trailer is perfectly balanced it still does not mean you shouldn't have proper brakes, hitch, & anti sway bars. i know this is a bad example but you get the point. If a semi truck passed this guy, quite sure he would have his hands full. Or if a 40+ mph gust of wind caught him from the side.

All arguments just went out the window. Hahaha

[Reloaderguy]

Case and point!! Went to morning coffee. Here is what's wrong with some of these camper people!! Stupid as shit. Sales people should be shot selling someone a tow package let alone a camper to someone who pulls up in a minivan. These are the dangerous ones. 22' 3" cloud series. Weighs in at enough for a half ton. Not a minivan. 4000lbs Ish empty.
Sry guys this just gets on my nerves. You guys with the wagons and airstreams are fine. I'd be more than comfortable with you beside me on the highway. But not some of these others

Found this on the Chrysler website
The trailer tow capacity of all models of Caravan and T&C is a Max. of 3600 lbs. It breaks down as follows: 3600lb + 2 persons + 50 lbs. luggage ea., 3350lbs + 3-5 people +50lbs luggage ea, 3000lbs + 6-7 people + 50 lbs luggage ea. (Single person weight = 150lbs.

Right there is the problem. Hauling near max at max or over max. That is a croc of shit

That is a good day, I've watched RV dealers hook up Rav4's. I work on the manufacturing side of the RV industry with hitching and towing (among other things). Every person I've ever talked to was an expert in towing with their truck...just ask them, they'll tell you. However, nearly every veteran RV'er has a horror story. Everyone says "you'll be fine" and "it'll never happen to me"...and then they aren't and it does. I can't even begin to tell you some of the terrible, complacent practices I see on a routine basis.

I stand behind my assertion, 600lb and up you need WD on your travel trailer regardless of your tow vehicle. Mechanical active sway control works the best but even old friction units are better than nothing. Some people will get it, some won't...it's no sweat off of my back if you keep on keeping on.

[nts007]

Never had a problem with this. At any speed. Good trailer. Good trailer brakes. Good balance and loading practice. I've been sideways at 90kph on sheer ice. Was it scary. Hell yes. What to do. Countersteer and don't over react. But a good trailer will pull like a dream. Would I pull this with a rav 4 or a jeep or a minivan. Not a chance. I've had this trailer since 2005. Over 120k miles on it. 200k km. It's been around. It made my 06 powerwagon sweat pulling wise. No sway issues. The diesels have no issues with it.

[Zybane]

I saw this at the campground today:

[Bill2014]

[nts007]

He's got a boogie so he's all good

[Reloaderguy]

I saw this at the campground today:

Did you get a picture of Mormon Row while you were there?

[TwinStick]

I believe I said anyone pulling a camper. A landscape trailer & a aero front enclosed trailer are not camping trailers. Camping trailers are generally NOT as well balanced (except airstreams). My toyhaulers tongue weight could vary big-time. From as little as 1150 dry, to as much as 2500 fully loaded. Empty, it handled horribly. I could barely keep it on the road when a semi passed. As it first started to go by the back of my camper, it would push me over, sometimes 3-4', as it went by my truck, it would start to suck the camper & truck towards it. A 2 handed white knuckle affair to be sure, even with 1 ton helper springs, weight distributing hitch & trailer anti-sway bars. Campers are usually much taller & have MUCH more surface area than a landscape trailer, dump trailer or an aero front enclosed trailer. Ideally, tongue weight should be 10-15% of the total trailer weight. I would LOVE to see someone with a fully loaded, dual axled, landscape dump, make a fast, lightning quick, avoidance maneuver, in 4 lanes of heavy traffic, with a 1/2 ton truck with no sway bars. All of everthing being said in this thread, people are still gonna do what they are gonna do & innocent people will continue to pay the price when things go bad.

[RustyPW]

Towing my 35ft camper. I could tell the difference when I had 10 gals of fresh water vs 60 gals fresh water in the tank. It towed better with 10 gals, then a full tank. Always hated when I would get passed by a semi. At first, it would blow me out, then suck me in, then blow me out again. With new 35" Toyo MT tires. The PW would feel squirrelly in the rear until the tires worn down some. Ask Firerescue about this! If I ever tow a camper again. It will be with a WD hitch. Because my has saved my bacon a few times.

[nts007]

Yes the kind of trailer make a huge difference and camper trailers tend to not be balanced well. No argument there. With 12k lbs of concrete in a dump trailer, you drive like grandma. It doesn't sway but going and stopping you really need to watch your distances. Common sense rules with trailers. And I'm happy to say that the majority of you fellows here have that rare commodity

[loveracing1988]

While I have no reason to contradict your rant I do have a problem with your conclusion. The balance issue is a mute point at the said weight limits!

Maybe if we were discussing a Cummins 2500 but gas 2500's have 800+ less pounds over the front axle. Our trucks have less braking pressure on the front tires and are worse when weighting the hitch tongue. I would say based on the rear spring rates and light front end you should consider WD for tongue weights over 600 pounds. Without WD, even light loads on the tongue, you will have reduced braking (more likely to lock up/antilock chatter) and reduced steering (more likely to understeer in turns and wobble when the front end unload in rolling bumps). Balance is specifically a major issue and doesn't matter if you use air bags or not.

I'm thinking that weight difference is overstated... My '12 CTD mega cab diesel only weighs about 300 pounds more than my '14 Powerwagon with the rock sliders. Front axle on the CTD is 4620 pounds - front axle on the Powerwagon is 4360 pounds.

The requirement for a weight distributing hitch depends on many factors and you can't make a generalization for tongue weights over 600 pounds. My tongue weight often exceeds 1500 pounds - but I don't know anyone that puts weight distributing hitches on dump trailers.

You have to compare a 14 and later Cummins to a 14 and later power wagon. With the new heavier frame and heavier suspensions the 14 and later trucks need a diet.