Random thoughts- fender removal & cutting, 1" lift & 40s???

[RAM4ROKS]

So, I've been thinking a lot about my Power Wagon's build and what direction to take with it. As I have said- thus far I have been planning a 1" lift and 37s. Then Poking around the internt- I got to looking at Fiberwerx fiberglass fenders and KORE composite fenders and thinking about how cool that kind of setup would be. I've read that you can fit 37s at stock height with them, 39s with a 3" lift setup. (1" for us Power Wagon folks) Looking at the prices though, Prerunner fenders are $$$$ plus, with the truck being so wide stock- the added width of flared fenders would maybe not be the greatest idea with the tight trails around here.

Then, I got to thinking about maybe saving some coin and trimming the fenders to fit 37s at stock height since I haven't picked out a lift yet. Then since I'd be trimming anyway, I got to thinking about 40s at stock height. But, looking at my truck, it looks a tad low in front on stock suspension, so, maybe a 1" lift up front would be a good idea. (Reading posts on after market rear springs on here, seems like most that are soft enough to be worth having don't really add any much rear lift. (Some have said their rearends actually dropped) so, figuring on 1" front lift, about stock height rear, control arms, front trackbar, etc.

So, how hard are the outer front fenders and bedsides to remove? If they are simply a matter of unbolting, I'd like to remove them and test fit some 40s on aftermarket wheels to see if they can work with the inner structure of the front fenders and beds? (I am assuming the truck has box inner fender structures like most other modern vehicles, or am wrong in this?)

Then, if the inner structure can clear fairly simply (without having to say, chop a good chunk out of the stock front inner support or tub the rear wheel wells), then I would reinstall the fenders and bedsides and cut them to clear the fenders. I reckon this would work better than leaving the outers on and cutting them until the tires fit, just to discover that the tires won't clear the inner structures. Oh, and bumper clearance would be a non issue as I'd go with a fabbed tube bumper.

So, cut fenders, 1" of front lift, aftermarket wheels and 40s, anybody done this???? Yeah, I know the truck would be a slug on 40s. (since 4.56 are the lowest gears available for the rear diff currently) But, that's the only downside I can think of. Other than- are the stock axles up to running 40s? Or would breakage be an issue? I'm thinking the low COG but great ground clearance provided by 40s would make a formidable wheeling rig. Those tires would certainly solve the belly dragging issues I have been having stock! Would also put the sidewalls out further than my sliders and the sides of my truck so, I could be assured that the thing that hits a tree is tire, not truck! Lol!

Anybody have any thoughts on this? BTW, this is a 4th gen. Thanks!

[RustyPW]

5.13's, RCV axles in the front, 17x10 rims with 5" of back spacing, trim the front bumper, new control arms, a good plasma cutter. Fit anything you want. Don't know how pretty it would be.

[twistedpw]

I'm sure on the 4th gen boxes the sides are welded on unless you have the Rambox ( they are bolted ) and front fenders should be easy to get off there just held on with bolts just be sure you do a good job marking them in a few locations so they go on the same as they come off. Body panels are a bi$ch to line up again.(white paint markers are ok

I would also love to end up running 40's but I think I'm going for 37's on the next set of tires I'm running 35's on Hutchison bead locks on because of the huge weight of each assembly I think 37's is where I'm going to run out of engine power and like you said 4.56 is as low as we can go with out swapping the rear out for a 11.5" ( which would need a 15 blot kit ) and 5.13's.

[RAM4ROKS]

RustyPW: 10-4 on the RCVs!!! I'd love to have a set of those! I'd likely do a Spyntech or Dynatrac bearing and hub conversion at that same time, that'd be a long ways down the road though! As for the 5.13s, I agree with the gearing selection but, I don't think anything lower than our 4.56s are available for our rear diffs? For wheels, I am thinking 17x9 with somewhere between 4.5-5" backspacking since I would run 40x13.50R17s. New control arms, yup! I will be getting either Carli or Thuren, no matter what tire size I go with. I can possibly borrow a plasma cutter, I have some buddies who would let me borrow one just to see me cutting into my truck, LOL!As for prettiness, well, I am thinking I would cut pretty much exactly the outline of the stock flares, then weld in a reinforcing lip, and then spray bedliner around the circumference of the newly cut wheelwells to make it look like it has a bigger version of stock fender flares from afar. (I'd rather paint them body color to look factory up close but, perfectly matched and blended in factory color paint would be a lot more $$$ than some black bedliner!)

twistedpw: Yet another reason to wish I had the Ram boxes!!! : ( Thanks for the tip on the white paint marker, that's a VERY good idea!!!!!I have been drooling over Hutchinson beadlocks for years, I am very jealous right now!!! How have you liked yours? Can you post a pic of them on here? (I haven't actually seen the Dodge ones) Thanks!!! I am assuming they are 17x9? Yeah, a 15bolt converted 11.5" rearend with a selectable locker (like an ARB) would be $$$$$$$!

So, I am thinking the stock inner Cs, kuckles, and axle tubes of the frontend should be beefy enough for 40s, correct? The only issues would be unit bearings, u-joints, and balljoints? So, an upgrade to a free spin kit, RCVs and Carli balljoints (after the stock stuff wears out) should put the frontend good to go? The only other frontend issue I can think of is steering, I think a box brace, and ugraded tierod, and hydro-assist would be necessities, correct?

Question- would wheels that fit a one ton 80's Chevy fit a 2012 Power Wagon? (bolt pattern and center bore size) I know several people with one ton swapped K5 blazers and might could get a set of mounted 40s for mock up purposes to see if this is even remotely possible. (rather than me buying some and discovering this wont work at all after having spent $$$$$$$$$ on wheels and tires)

[RedMan]

RAM4ROKS, this is what I was thinking with my Toyata when I built her, 3 inch body lift is all I had, I was running 38" with stock Toya axles, my cousin was running 44" with stock axles and we both had 5:71 richmond gears with TRU Trac lockers front and rear. We will not talk about the amount of hammering we did to the fender wells to get the tires not to rub . The pic looks like there is not finder moding but truxt me, we took a vary large hammer to those fenders and figureatively speaking it looked pretty good. We beat these trucks up in the MIssissippi swamps and never had an axle problem. Our (Power Wagon) axles should hold up as they're much larger than those tinie Toyota axles.

Looking forward to see how you do this

ALSO, I had to cut on my front finders, it is not that hard to do, the only issue you will run into is the rear part of the front fender, you only have about an inch or two to actually cut off before you run into the doors.

[TwinStick]

5.13's are a direct bolt in for front axle, rear axle needs to be swapped out to a AAM 11.5" from a Dodge diesel, then the 5.13's will be a direct bolt in. ARB air lockers are avail for both the front AAM 9.25 14 bolt & the rear AAM 11.5" 14 bolt.

[MSparks909]

Okay...I don't think you'll be running 40's without 1" longer control arms, custom front bumper, fender trimming, rear leaf springs with the axle pin moved 1/2" to the rear. As it is with my 37" Toyo's and wheels with 5 3/8" BS, I need to trim my front fenders back some. Gonna remove the fender flares and trim before Uwharrie this weekend (YOU SHOULD COME!!!). I think once I trim I'll be good. Clearance is tight on my truck and I have a 4" lift up front and a 2" lift in the rear. 40's wouldn't fit unless I did a lot of mods.

[twistedpw]

Are you looking for the dodge version of this Canadian truck

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRP8xZ-2m ... re=related

This truck was built at National 4wd in Burlinton Ont. back when I still worked there last I worked on it 7 years ago it had 49" irocks on it, then a guy I went to high school with bought it and put more lift and these military tires on it
it's a supercharged v10, auto and was a dually with 42's when I first seen it

[twistedpw]

Are you looking for the dodge version of this Canadian truck

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRP8xZ-2m ... re=related

This truck was built at National 4wd in Burlinton Ont. back when I still worked there last I worked on it 7 years ago it had 49" irocks on it, then a guy I went to high school with bought it and put more lift and these military tires on it
it's a supercharged v10, auto and was a dually with 42's when I first seen it

[twistedpw]

Are you looking for the dodge version of this Canadian truck

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRP8xZ-2m ... re=related

This truck was built at National 4wd in Burlinton Ont. back when I still worked there last I worked on it 7 years ago it had 49" irocks on it, then a guy I went to high school with bought it and put more lift and these 54" military tires on it
it's a supercharged v10, auto and was a dually with 42's when I first seen it

[twistedpw]

Are you looking for the dodge version of this Canadian truck

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRP8xZ-2m ... re=related

This truck was built at National 4wd in Burlinton Ont. back when I still worked there last I worked on it 7 years ago it had 49" irocks on it, then a guy I went to high school with bought it and put more lift and these 54" military tires on it
it's a supercharged v10, auto and was a dually with 42's when I first seen it

[VA_Wagon Man]

I'd like to do something similar to what you're talking about. Remove the front fenders and leave them off. That's probably the only way to accomplish this. I want the biggest tire i can get with the least amount if lift.

Sent from the middle of nowhere.

[TwinStick]

If you guys are gonna go that route, why not make your own fenders ? Get a set from LMC, keep the top part (where it bolts to the truck) & cut off most of the rest. Then get some sheet metal, make the curve you want, roll in some strengthening ridges, then use a piece of 1/4" rod for the outer edge, leaving about 1/2" past the rod. Then when it is welded, you can roll the edge under it, making it look nice & factory. Then you will still have factory fenders for the street or for resale of the truck. Just a thought.

[VA_Wagon Man]

^^ Good thinking!

Sent from the middle of nowhere.

[TwinStick]

They did something similar on Power Block TV. http://www.powerblocktv.com/episodes/TK ... -body-mods
Jump to about the 8 minute mark.

Hell, you could even make it look like an older PW fender if you wanted !!! Blend the old with the new.

[RAM4ROKS]

All good suggestions! Sorry I haven't been able to respond, I have been buried with school work! Also, not helping- my internet isn't working at my house so, I have to drive over to campus when I need to use a computer! : (

Anyways, when I get unburied from school stuff, I'll type out the more thoughts I have been having on this. For now, I will just say- MSparks909: I will be there (Uwharrie) on saturday! My truck is still dead stock but, I do have my rock sliders on and will be fixing my winch today!

[bstefanic]

Here is a picture of Mercenary Off Road's Dodge. Its running 41's with a 3" lift but a ton of work done to the body. While it may look cool...there is ZERO room for any sort of flex.

[fbenross]

2 schools of thought here..1 you pay big bucks for a pw and mod the hell out of it-or you buy a used 1/2 ton short bed and build it....me-I think the pw should be left pretty much stock---it's very good for a big -long wheel base 4x4 truck...get a rubicon if you want top off road performance... or put air lockers under a short bed if you want the pickup off road vehicle look...

[MSparks909]

IF you really want to run 41's/42's, it's time to remove the bed and toss a flatbed on there with custom fenders, or do a ton of trimming to the stock rear fenders. You'll probably need to remove the wheelwells. If you do opt to remove the bed and install a flatbed, you could shorten the wheelbase while you're at it. For the front, I'd recommend a 6" lift, longarms that move the front axle 1-2" forward, hydro steering, the whole shebang. It's much more practical to just stick with 37's.

For now, read through this build:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/dodge/80 ... start.html

[RAM4ROKS]

First off: thanks for all the responses! Sorry in advance for the book like length of this post, and sorry if I misspell anyone's screen name! Here goes:

Twistedpw: I like the looks of that Ford! I doubt I'll ever own a vehicle that'd ins that much lift and tire though! (Not that I don't want to, just that that would be an expensive toy!)

VAwagonman: I don't think the fenders would have to be left off. They'd just need, umm, persuaded! Lol!

Msparks909: I am planning on running most of the mods you listed, even if I keep my 37s.

Redman: I like that Toyota! Also, thanks for the trimming pics!

Twin stick: good thinking on the fender mods! (Both the reshaping technique and the buying LMC ones to keep stockers for resale!) on the making ones like the old power wagons well, I like the idea in theory but, in practice, I rarely have like the looks of retro mod style new trucks. Might could be cool, I'd have to see one first though before I'd try to make my own though. Definitely down with the buying of replacement fenders to work on reshaping though, good call!!!!!!!

Bstefanic: thanks for the pic! That's a hot looking truck! It almost looks like they were too mild with their body mods or went with wheels with too much back spacing or something, seems like those tires are closer in and closer to the fender openings then I would want if I was going to work so hard at it.

Fbenross: I've had the modded older half ton (sort of) and the Rubicon-
Had an 87 GMC Jlimmy full size (hence my saying sort of, since it was a halfton but not a pickup or a dodge):
350tbi, sm465 (with custom ORD 32 spline shorts haft output (to run shorter figure 8 adapter), 203/205 doubler (triple sticked, 32 spline input, full 32 spline output (chevy/ford hybrid), HAD driveline e-brake), Dana 60 (with 35 spline shafts, Spicer 806-x u-joints, dynaloc hubs, ARB air locker, 4.56 gears, PSC hydro assist, crossover steering, & a solid diff cover), corporate 14 bolt rearend (CUCV version, so 4.56 gears and a Detroit locker, we added disc brakes and a solid cover), HAD shafts front and rear, all 1410 u-joints but, a CV coming off the rear of the t-case. ORD front bumoer with Warn 9500ti and 8" Sol-teks, DPI sliders and rear bumper, completely custom dual crossmember setup (for doubler) with 1/4" steel belly pan. 3" lift, 37" tires. (Was planning to go to 40's later but, ended up selling the truck)

Had a 2011 JK Rubicon: Poison Spyder front and rear bumpers and evap skid, RROR full underbody skids, Warn 9500cti winch, 3.5" Rock Krawler X factor mid arm lift with FOX remote resi shocks, 35" tires (only because I got 35" MTRKs for $160 a piece! Or else, it would have had 37s,) and a TON of other small mods. (Funnily enough, that Jeep's stock out the door price was not much less than the stock out the door price of my Power Wagon, the Jeep was a fully loaded Rubicon 4 door with every option other than leather).

The Jimmy was a perpetual money pit, and the Jeep was too pretty to wheel. Wish I still had the Jimmy! The Jeep, well, IDK, never did feel comfortable parking a topless, doorless, near $40k vehicle much of anywhere! (The Jimmy had, well, IDK how much in it but, I'd say $30k plus in it but, your average carjacker wouldn't likely realize it)

As for the idea of doing a build like the Jimmy all over again but on a half ton shortbed, there's a couple reasons why I like the idea of building my power wagon better:
I am 6'3"- me and a rollcage in the cab of an older regular cab is gonna be a tight fit
Power Wagon has a beefier frame than an old half ton (yeah, I know, I could beef the halfton's frame, or buy a one ton and chop its frame to shortbed length but, that's extra work)
I like the cab space of the power wagon, even an older crew cab still doesn't have the same legroom as the 22012 PW.

Yeah, the Power Wagon is a portly beast. (Got the nickname "Trail Whale" from a Jeeper at Uwharrie, lol!) but, the interior space and bed space can't be beat!

As to leaving it stock- stock can't do what I wanna do with it. I drag belly a LOT stock. I nearly had to pull cable to get over an erosion control berm! (About half I clear fine, half I scrape belly on (skids are already scraped, scratched, and a little dented), and one berm caught me bad enough I was nearly high centered)

Msparks909: 40x13.50R17s would be what I'd look at running. I doubt I'd need to remove wheelwells to do it though, that is a concern that I have (hence my wishing the bedsides were easy to remove so I could test fit sans outer fenders. Honestly, I've got little use for a tube bed. I have thought about building a tube bed "Truggy" many times over the years and unless I was build it just to be a toy, I would want to retain some semblance of the stock bed.

If I had a huge budget, I actually wouldn't mind shortening the wheelbase by about a foot and running the bed that half ton crew cabs have (I believe it is 5'4"?) that would be a neat setup! (One that I wish Dodge made an option from the factory) I've read through that build a couple times but, it was a while ago that I read it, thanks for the link, I will read through it again!

I will say, there is another build I have come across where a 3rd gen regular cab owner has done tube fenders up front and runs (i believe) a 3" lift and 40s so, it seems that with enough fender removal it is possible. (He does run a tube bed though so, an advocate for tube beds there!

I definitely agree on hydro assist though! I will likely be considering it for my 37s! There were times at Uwharrie on Saturday where I found myself unable to steer with even just my stock 33s when I had the front locker engaged.

[VA_Wagon Man]

The third gen with 40's is in a different ballgame. Unless you plan on losing the whole bottom half, 40's won't stuff with our flexy suspension with only 1 inch of lift........buy a fender from a junk yard, get a worn out 40 and start test fitting and cutting.

Sent from the middle of nowhere.

[MSparks909]

Once my PW loses its DD status, it will be getting severely modified. Gonna remove the bed, shorten the wheelbase some, install a nice "truggy" type bed, boatside the fenders, severely modify the front fenders, Atlas transfer case, hydro assist, etc. Gonna be sitting on 42's when it's all said and done and will predominantly be a trailer queen to and from the trails and will also be the hunting rig on those hard to reach plots of land we sometimes hunt. I just rolled over 90K miles. I'll probably shop for a new truck around 150K miles or so and then the "extreme" mods can begin!

[SilverWagon05]

Once my PW loses its DD status, it will be getting severely modified. Gonna remove the bed, shorten the wheelbase some, install a nice "truggy" type bed, boatside the fenders, severely modify the front fenders, Atlas transfer case, hydro assist, etc. Gonna be sitting on 42's when it's all said and done and will predominantly be a trailer queen to and from the trails and will also be the hunting rig on those hard to reach plots of land we sometimes hunt. I just rolled over 90K miles. I'll probably shop for a new truck around 150K miles or so and then the "extreme" mods can begin!

Same here. I'm slowly getting mine ready for that.

[RAM4ROKS]

Holy old thread resurrection Batman, LOL! Soooooooooo, after having my 37s on for a little while, and wheeling more difficult trails, I am back to thinking about 40's, again.(the AEV truck on 40s is helping to put the ideas back in my head too) Or rather, maybe 39.5x13.5R17. In the 40" (for 17" wheel) tire size range, there's only one tire I can find that's not load range C, the Nitto Mud Grappler. I am NOT a fan of the looks of that tire at all. But, I did find that Interco makes a 39.5x13.5R17 IROK radial in load range C with a load rating of 4080lbs. I even found a cosmetic blem one on their website for $175 that I could use as a spare! The frustrating thing is, I cannot find the rest of the tires for anything less than about $500 each. The bias ply I can find for $344 in the same tire, why are radial tires so much more expensive?!?!?! (no, I am not even considering the bias ply) SO, has anybody run IROK radials on their Power Wagon? Have you liked them? Or, anybody know of a sufficient load range rated 40" tire for a 17" rim?

[04Ram2500Hemi]

I was going to say, AEV is your friend. I worry about how much this vehicle may cost me in the future. I'm thinking no lift and 37" tires, but until anything is released I'll just have to wait.
http://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicles/ram