Transmission question

[Z's2016PW]

While on vacation I went up Wolf Creek Pass. Both west and east bound. The top of the pass is a little over 10,000 feet in elevation. My Wagon has pulled the trailer over passes a little higher than this. Anyway, going west bound I slowed down going through the tunnel which comes out to the ski resort. The transmission downshifted to 1st as the Wagon rounded a hard switchback. As the truck started up the hill it was screaming in 1st. Rpm's where at 5000 and the speed was 30 mph. The big Hemi was willing, but the transmission would not upshift to 2nd. Fortunately the drive to the summit was not to far. Had the transmission shifted the truck would have made it to the top doing 50 mph easily. That was with the Wagon pulling roughly 14000 pounds.
On the return trip we went up the pass again, but going eastbound. Rounded the last hard switchback and the transmission shifted into 1st. Just like last time the motor was screaming, but the transmission would not budge. This time we got lucky and there was a small drop in the road which caused the transmission to shift into 2nd. Made it all the way to the summit doing 50 mph.
So the question is why did the transmission act like this? Gone up similar grades in 2nd and sometimes in 3rd with no problems. The big Hemi and the 4.10's weren't the issue. I thought it was a fluke until it happened again. Any ideas? Thanks!

[Shaved Ice]

My first thought is that you were towing well over the max tow rating.

My first question is if you put your transmission in tow/haul mode.

My second question is if you have and properly using your trailer brakes.

More experienced people will chime in shortly but if you can answer my two questions, I am sure it will help with feedback.

[vanished]

It's all about the transmission calibration- factors such as engine temps, trans temps, throttle input, load, speed and such all come into play to avoid gear hunting, which is harmful to the trans... Sounds to me like it was doing its job to protect the truck


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[Bill2014]

While towing heavy loads, I've noticed similar behaviors. And it's not limited to just 1st gear. In Tow/Haul mode, I've hit the accelerator to go around someone, and the transmission shifted into 3rd. I then changed my mind and let off the accelerator but the transmission stayed in third for another 30 seconds. I could even feel the compression acting to slow the truck down... Finally, after what seemed like forever, it shifted into 4th.

This doesn't happen to this extent when not in Tow/Haul

[TwinStick]

Seems the more things change, the more they stay the same. I was having all these issues & more, way back in 2000 with the Dakota & in 2004 with the 2500. So, 17 years & nothing has changed transmission wise. Sure, they have more gears & more computers but they are simply not made for real world HD work. They really need truck guys that actually use their trucks for HD work help the people that make the electronics for the transmissions. The simplest way to avoid all these issues with an automatic, is to add a switch/button to let the driver decide what gear to be in & let them hold it there as long as they want, NOT SHIFT WHEN IT THINKS IT SHOULD. But they can't even do that. The only other solution is to buy the diesel, that has so much torque, it makes up for the auto trans's issues.

It is really time that Ram steps up their transmission/programming game. OR, BRING BACK THE 6-SPEED MANUAL SHIFT.

[Z's2016PW]

My first thought is that you were towing well over the max tow rating.

My first question is if you put your transmission in tow/haul mode.

My second question is if you have and properly using your trailer brakes.

More experienced people will chime in shortly but if you can answer my two questions, I am sure it will help with feedback.

The 14000 pounds was combined weight. Definitely under the max. Yes, the tow/haul button was engaged. Based on some feedback next time I will disengage the button to see if it will force the transmission to shift up. Felt like limp mode. It definitely had me wishing for a 6 speed manual.Would have been in 2nd for sure. If it doing this to protect the transmission then the engineer who designed it should be taken out back. It is the only time that I have seen temperatures hover around 190. When it did shift up going eastbound the temps dropped back down to the 170s.

[TJ02Gopher]

Yes, if you take it out of the Tow/Haul mode, it will help. I just went through the same thing towing my Jeep on a 20' trailer (just about the same combined weight of 14K) to and from Big Bear Forest Fest. The compression braking really helps to save the brakes, but gets annoying when you want it to upshift.

[NickTF]

The Fast Lane Truck has a video I believe about how Ram will limit the motor to a 4800ish rpm and certain gears as almost a fail safe. You should search for the video as it sounds as if that's what you've experienced.

It is interesting to note that I believe the chassis cab truck 6.4s are governed to 4800rpm and 367 or so hp.... Perhaps that is the sweet spot the engineers at RAM determined for the 6.4 in extreme duty operations, just a guess.

[OffroadTreks]

You guys know there is a up/down button right there on your shifter. Use it. Don't just leave it in D all the time.

[TJ02Gopher]

When coming down the hills, I would keep it in 2 or 3, and then take it back to 6 and it will still hold the low gears, until I took it out of the Tow/Haul Mode. Even then it took a little while to shift up.

[Mule]

You guys know there is a up/down button right there on your shifter. Use it. Don't just leave it in D all the time.

Right?

I always laugh at people riding the brakes going down the mountains. I drop a gear and coast the whole way down. Even the """professional drivers""" don't do this... they're the ones that end up in the runaway truck ramps.

I'm between D and 2 even just driving around town.

[Z's2016PW]

I think some of you guys missed the point. This issue occurred going up the pass. Not down it. Yes, I do know about the manual gear selector. It was locked in 2nd gear. Unfortunately the transmission would not shift out of 1st. So, any ideas why the transmission acted this way?

[OffroadTreks]

I've had mine do that too. Push the button. Yes going up hill. It will shift. Push and hold down for a moment. Sometimes it just sticks in a gear.

Next time towing on a grade and altitude like that, put in 3rd going up the hill. Don't let it hunt.

[Bill2014]

Switch doesn't select the gear - it only limits the highest gear that the transmission can go into. So it can be manipulated to provide some level of engine braking. Or keep the transmission in a lower gear if it is hunting.

[OffroadTreks]

Switch doesn't select the gear - it only limits the highest gear that the transmission can go into. So it can be manipulated to provide some level of engine braking. Or keep the transmission in a lower gear if it is hunting.

If I limited it to 3rd and it's staying in 2nd, if I hold the switch it will always shift out. That's been my experience.

[Bill2014]

Switch doesn't select the gear - it only limits the highest gear that the transmission can go into. So it can be manipulated to provide some level of engine braking. Or keep the transmission in a lower gear if it is hunting.

If I limited it to 3rd and it's staying in 2nd, if I hold the switch it will always shift out. That's been my experience.

Hmmm - if my truck is in 2nd, and if my switch is set to 3rd, and I touch it, it changes the setting to 2nd or 4th depending on which side I press. But doesn't cause the transmission to shift.

[Bill2014]

Here is what the 2014 manual says:
Electronic Range Select (ERS) Operation
The Electronic Range Select (ERS) shift control allows the driver to limit the highest available gear when the shift lever is in the DRIVE position. For example, if you shift the transmission into 3 (third gear), the transmission will not shift above third gear, but will shift down into second and first gears normally.
You can switch between DRIVE and ERS mode at any vehicle speed. When the shift lever is in the DRIVE position, the transmission will operate automatically, shifting between all available gears. Tapping the ERS (-) switch will activate ERS mode, display the current gear in the instrument cluster, and maintain that gear as the top available gear. Once in ERS mode, tapping ERS (-) or (+) will change the top available gear.

[Bill2014]

And here is why it may not be upshifting...

From the 2014 manual:
When To Use TOW/HAUL Mode
When driving in hilly areas, towing a trailer, carrying a heavy load, etc., and frequent transmission shifting oc- curs, press the TOW/HAUL switch to activate TOW/HAUL mode. This will improve performance and reduce the potential for transmission overheating or failure due to excessive shifting. When operating in TOW/HAUL mode, transmission upshifts are delayed, and the trans- mission will automatically downshift (for engine brak- ing) during steady braking maneuvers.

[Z's2016PW]

Not sure that I agree with what Ram is saying. Had the transmission just shifted to 2nd the temps would have stayed in the low 170s. Instead it was hovering around 190. How is that beneficial to the trans? Normally on these mountain passes I keep the trans in 3rd or 2nd depending on the circumstances. While towing that is. That limits the gear hunting. If 3rd is bogging the motor down then I lock it into 2nd. Anyway, I will have to try what MikeKey does. Hadn't really thought of that. Hopefully I will not have that issue again.

[vanished]

It's not the up shifting or temps that hurt, but often it will lose speed, be unable to hold 2nd, shift back to first and then the cycle starts over going up the hill.. known as grade hunting, and that's bad... tow/haul raises shift points to limit this - as it can't see the bump or mountain ahead...


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[TwinStick]

So, it still sucks but just doesn't suck quite as much. That simply was not acceptable to me. It's a Hemi, Hemi's love to rev, it's where they make their power. I have pulled hills in 3rd gear @ 5500 rpm's & the Hemi was happy and singing. I was able to haul 10,500 lbs from a dead stop at the bottom of the hill, to 55 mph going up the hill & hold it there. If I had an auto, there is no way it would let me do that. It would have (& did on our 2004 QC 2500 w/Hemi & auto & 4.10's) up shifted & I would have lost all momentum & ended up doing 15 mph in 1st. That happened to us everytime we pulled our toyhauler.

If i was to buy another full size truck,I seriously would consider the CTD (detuned to 660 ft lbs) just so I could get the manual shift in it. If you want total control while towing, it is now the only game in town.

Maybe they could install yet another failure prone sensor, that would tell the transmission it is going up a hill & totally change the shifting parameters ?

The reason I am only fond of 1 overdrive gear is: My Hemi/auto/4.10/2500 would only use 1,2,& 3rd when towing our toyhauler, even on flat ground, heading into the wind, towards PA. So, 4th & 5th were completely useless, unless truck was empty & I was using it like a car. HD truck owners would be better served if they only had 1 overdrive & more and/or more closely matched gear ratios.

[Z's2016PW]

The 8 speed from the 1500 would be nice. It has close ratios to minimize losing rpms between shifts.

[olyelr]

The 8 speed from the 1500 would be nice. It has close ratios to minimize losing rpms between shifts.

Damn right. My wife's Denali with the 6.2 and 8 speed trans is absolutely incredible. I would swamp her motor's and tranny's any day of the week.

[DamageWagon]

The idea of putting a 6.2l engine into an SUV makes no sense to me, but neither does towing with one. More speeds can be a good thing, but also can be bad as well. For most folks adding gears is a great idea, but the additional shifting indices more heat from a performance standpoint. Usually not an issue, but there's a reason many diesel guys with newer trucks are dropping in the older 4-speed trans. I think the 5-speed in my truck will be a lot more enjoyable when I get a tuner on it and firm up the shifts.

[nts007]

Keep in mind that the engine speed being higher for you gas jobs will always help with cooling both engine and oil and tranny. Power and fan velocity determined by engine rpm. And water pump will be flowing more volume I don't see a negative to long durations at higher rpms. Not when there are guys pushing the 6.1s to 7500rpm. The engines are balanced well. It's just really annoying as the driver when you want it to 'settle down'