New Rig

[ramv]

Thinking of replacing my 200k mile '05 Avalanche 2500 LT with a new daily driver/tow rig/mild explorer. The Avalanche has 8.1l Vortec, 4L85E, 4.10s, rear Gov-Lok (9.25" IFS/full float 14 bolt), and an NV246, on 285 Duratracs with a leveling kit, timbrens and upgraded shocks. Leather/nav/sunroof. 130" WB. Looking to maintain all the creature comforts, towing capability, and hopefully improve some of the off road capability as well potentially be able to haul a small pop-up camper when not towing. Unfortunately most of it's life will be commuting in stupid stop and go heavy traffic and tight parking, along with some longer road trips for work.

I bought the Chevy new, as I did with my 2nd gen Dodge 1500 (which is a dedicated rock crawler on 42"s now) so I keep vehicles a long time, and would like to order one this time.

Options I think are 2017 Raptor, Super Duty Supercab or Power Wagon (Lariat/Laramie.) I drove a 2016 Power Wagon Laramie for a few miles, the test drive was such a cluster, I swore I wouldn't buy a truck from the local dealer. Very pleased with the Ford dealer we use for work, so that might sway the decision.

PW:
Pros:
Lockers, winch, better skid plates, solid tow rig, good aftermarket, big sway bar on road, disconnects for offroad, manual T-case
Cons:
Slowest, need locker bypass, low payload, gas mileage

Raptor:
Pros:
Fast, factory 35"s, 3" Fox shocks, light, can use locker in high range, Torsen front diff, beadlock ready wheels, easier to park
Cons:
Towing ability, no front locker, no winch, (may take a while to get a hidden mount developed), after market will have to catch up, 5.5' short bed

Super Duty
Pros:
4.30s, Locker in high range, excellent payload and towing capability, manual hubs override
Cons:
Expensive, limited aftermarket, needs winch and front locker, longest (with winch installed), gas mileage. Likely will be tough to get bolt on rocker protection.

Thoughts?

Current rig

[coder]

Hello ramv, welcome, all trucks have there purpose and things that they are best at, what's the primary use of your truck? The PWs sweet spot is being a jack of all trades with its specialty being off road trails requiring lots of traction. If that's what you're looking for it's hard to do better than a Power Wagon. Good Luck!

[MoparToYou]

Your description of how you plan on using your vehicle sounds more or less the same as the way I use my Power Wagon right now. A Power Wagon is a pretty good compromise vhicle, it has better towing than the Raptor, and better off road capability than the Super Duty. Another vehicle worth considering might be an AEV Prospector, ... but that adds another $20K to the price.

[Ducky's Dad]

Looking to maintain all the creature comforts, towing capability, and hopefully improve some of the off road capability

IF you are serious about maintaining the towing capability while improving offroad capability, then the Raptor is out because of towing. The PW will maintain towing AND improve offroad capability. The Super will give you towing but is not as capable offroad as the PW. Seems like all you need to do is find a dealer you like. The good news is that my PW is over ten years old and has only actually been in the dealer shop once, so you may never have to see the dealer again. A Prospector seems to be a good way to waste a bunch of money.

[ramv]

A prospector parks next to my office. Nice but the bumper seems to hurt approach angle and its super expensive.

I like the hd drive train of the power wagon. I was considering the Nissan XD Pro 4X but the original report was it had the same axles as my Chevy. In reality they are a lot smaller. I break a ton of axles in my second Gen. Don't want that in a daily driver

[Ducky's Dad]

Resale on the Nissan down the road will probably be real soft. If you drive it til it drops, that won't be an issue. Broken axles don't seem to be an issue with the PWs. If I wanted to spend AEV money, I'd start with a PW and then do exactly the mods I want, without the AEV premium.

[RustyPW]

I have an '08 PW. I've towed a 10,000 lb camper over the Rockies from Pa. Off-roaded from Rausch Creek to Moab. Used it as my DD. Had 4,000 lbs of top soil in the bed a couple of times. The guy used a front loader to load the PW. The only time it went back to the dealer to get something fixed. Was the clock spring under the steering wheel.

The rapturd is not easier to park. It's wider then the PW. Try and get out of the door when the painted lines are tight in a parking lot.

[Snowsled]

PW:
Pros:
Lockers, winch, better skid plates, solid tow rig, good aftermarket, big sway bar on road, disconnects for offroad, manual T-case
Cons:
Slowest, need locker bypass, low payload, gas mileage

Mine is pretty quick, even at altitude, WAY better than my '06 with the 5.7. This truck can pass on two lanes, the other needed lots of road. I doubt it is that much slower than the other two. Who cares about a truck length unless you intend on racing for money?

Yes, NEEDS locker bypass, and 35's

The payload is just a sticker. Fit some air springs and adjust for the load, problem solved.

Mileage isn't as bad as you might think. Coming into spring I am seeing 14 mpg average again, should see 15 over the summer and back to 13 for the winter. It does 17 on the highway, I suspect all of these are improvements over the Avy.

Raptor:
Pros:
Fast, factory 35"s, 3" Fox shocks, light, can use locker in high range, Torsen front diff, beadlock ready wheels, easier to park
Cons:
Towing ability, no front locker, no winch, (may take a while to get a hidden mount developed), after market will have to catch up, 5.5' short bed

Super Duty
Pros:
4.30s, Locker in high range, excellent payload and towing capability, manual hubs override
Cons:
Expensive, limited aftermarket, needs winch and front locker, longest (with winch installed), gas mileage. Likely will be tough to get bolt on rocker protection.

Thoughts?

Factory PW wheels have additional bead holding built in. Doesn't sound like your use includes anything requiring a bead lock. Can't imagine the super wide Raptor is easier to park, and the SD definitely isn't. I got my PW in and out of the parking garage at the Flamingo in Vegas. Heading out in the morning was a bit foggy but the truck got in and out of there with just a little extra caution, no problem. This from a guy who doesn't live within ten miles of a stop light. I drove the truck in San Diego traffic for a few days last fall too, it works pretty good.

I dunno, looks like the PW is your best bet for a ready to rumble rig that can do some degree of truck work. To me the Raptor is just a toy, a cool toy but marginally practical. The SD is good truck but a very old design now. Check out the frame flex videos on the tube, the SD is flopsy mopsy compared to the competition. I think the Ram is by far the best looking of the three too.

[Black Pearl]

Those bed tents are great! Had one a while back and they are comfy.
For me it came down to:
Power wagon: +Great all rounder and w 7k isn can be set up to play w raptors.
~I came from 8 ft bed and was use to it.
Raptor: +I live is So Cal and there is a bunch of high speed dessert action around.
-Payload and bed size.
Aslo looked very closely at a access cab long bed
Tundra: With factory installed supercharger:+Same cab and bed size as previous rig. And would be quite a sleeper.
-Too long for any real off roading. And probably get in trouble w the law....Often.
Did also consider a sport mobile or quigley van. Just to expensive and don't have much confidence in the Power Stroke power plant.
Shine the AEV idea.
How about a slightly used Mega cab CTD and go huge on Thuen, Carli, DOR, or Icon type set up.

[ramv]

Thanks, appreciate all the input. Do the 4.5 gens still have the additional bead retention?

Good call on width of the Raptor, also concerned about that for the trails as well. Hadn't thought about that.

One of the things I like with the PW, is a set of sliders and the locker bypass are about the only must haves, (from what I am reading) while other pieces could be upgraded over time. Plus the aftermarket looks good.

The Nissan sounded a lot better when Diesel Power first reviewed it a year ago. The actual specs and information make it kind of dull, just a 1/2 ton with a diesel.

[OffroadTreks]

I think the Power Wagon is the best compromise vehicle for best performance off-road and best towing performance. We are full-time travelers who pull a 27ft Airstream around the country. We move probably every two weeks. Lots of towing. But we just have that itch to wheel. We used to have a dedicated offroad vehicle. So the Power Wagon is best suited I believe. And there are some performance options on the market already to help with the "slow" aspect.

But like you said, sliders and bypass and not much else is really needed. And you are talking about real front and rear lockers, unlike the others.



PS: Those Raptor 35's measure in a lot smaller in reality. Problem with the BFG's.

[Low_Sky]

Aside from lousy city mileage, my '15 PW does great as a daily driver. It has plenty of power to pass or get up to speed on on-ramps. I reverse park almost everywhere I go, and the back-up camera and auto-tilting side mirrors make it so easy a caveman could do it.


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[ramv]

Nice, looks great with the airstream.

With the Chevy, I back up until the hitch hits the wall. Somewhat less modern version of the back-up camera/sensors.

[Reloaderguy]

Call me crazy but if I had a double car carrier intended to pull offroad machines I'd get a diesel. None of the diesels are as offroad worthy as the PW but they can be made to be. The aftermarket support for Power Stroke diesel is better than the 3/4 ton 6.4 (there is pretty much no aftermarket support for the 6.4).

The SD's locker isn't all that great. It is an open diff when unlocked whereas the PW locker is limited slip unlocked. 2016 is the last year for the current generation Super Duty, next year the entire platform changes.

[ramv]

Don't have the double car hauler anymore (was hard to maneuver, store.) Just have an 18' single car hauler (14klb GVWR) now, about 11k lb loaded with the 2nd gen, I seldom use it. One trip to Moab last year. When I use to tow the double car hauler 30-40 times a year, a diesel would have been really nice! (my old job didn't allow pickups, hence the Avalanche in the first place, was deciding between it and a diesel Excursion)

The 2017 SD should be much nicer (2016 were pretty Spartan in the super cab compared to the F150.)

[15pwag]

I just traded my '11 PW for a '15 PW with the the 6.4. This weekend was the first time I've been able to take it on a longer trip. Went to Minneapolis from cedar falls Iowa. Had a south wind 15-25mph the entire time. I wasn't pullin anything but I got 17.5 on the way up and 14.5 on the way back. I was pretty impressed with that. That's setting the cruise at 77 on I-35 both ways. There was a little city driving involved with that too. My last truck would have pry gotten 12-13 there and 10 on the way back.

[Mopar6.4]

I just traded my '11 PW for a '15 PW with the the 6.4. This weekend was the first time I've been able to take it on a longer trip. Went to Minneapolis from cedar falls Iowa. Had a south wind 15-25mph the entire time. I wasn't pullin anything but I got 17.5 on the way up and 14.5 on the way back. I was pretty impressed with that. That's setting the cruise at 77 on I-35 both ways. There was a little city driving involved with that too. My last truck would have pry gotten 12-13 there and 10 on the way back.

Wow mine has never gotten close to that, how many miles are on your truck?

[15pwag]

Mine just turned over to 25k on this trip. With my truck it makes a difference where I get my gas too. BP gas seems to be the best for me. My local gas station is kiwk star. If I fill up there with 91 ethanol I usually get 10-13 but that was with my old truck. This new one gets a little better but it's a little to early to tell. Most of my driving is around town and pullin my Jon boat or duck boat a few miles. Neither of wihich are to heavy. Kinda wonderin what I'll get pullin those around. The '11 got 10 no matter what boat I had on.

[15pwag]

I should add that my truck is stock. Has the stock 285/70 tires. Down the road I'll pry put 295/75s on it.

[ramv]

Nice, that's great mileage! I doubt the SD does any better with the 6.2.

I get 12-13 most of the time with my current rig. 5-10 towing.

[15pwag]

Nice, that's great mileage! I doubt the SD does any better with the 6.2.

I get 12-13 most of the time with my current rig. 5-10 towing.

That's better than my '08 HD Silverado got. I had the 6.0 with the 6l90e tranny with 3.73 gears. Hauling sail boat fuel I'd get 12. I was pretty surprised at what this new PW got. Like I said tho, where I fuel up always seems to make a difference.

[yooper68]

ramv -

If you want a PW Laramie, you may want to order very soon (if I remember correctly from the 2017 PW presentations/announcement from the Chicago auto show, I think the Laramie is getting replaced with a "premium package"). so it sounded like the exterior on 2017 PW SLT and "premium package" will be the same? I thought they mentioned the "premium package" will be leather seats (and probably similar to current Laramie interiors?). Not sure about Power Wagons, but for "regular" 2500's, It looks like 2016 orders can only be taken for about the next 4 weeks or less and the 2017 orders start getting taken early June.

[Will]

PW the slowest? I'll line up with either of the other two mentioned.

[PWRider]

IMHO there is little too much obsession with locker bypass. It's far from being must have. Most likely you don't need it at all. PW honestly will run circles around Avalanche off road, lockers or not. Just like others in the above group, maybe to lesser degree. 35"s are good fit.

[OffroadTreks]

IMHO there is little too much obsession with locker bypass. It's far from being must have. Most likely you don't need it at all. PW honestly will run circles around Avalanche off road, lockers or not. Just like others in the above group, maybe to lesser degree. 35"s are good fit.

I'd agree. I haven't even found a need for my lockers yet. Granted I haven't been to Moab yet. But most of the time I'm unlocked and the PW continues to impress and amaze.

35's are a good in between IMO.