Power Wagon Registry

Was anyone else surprised by the incredible lack of payload capacity (1444lbs max) on the newer PW's? I carried a payload of 1/2 cord split firewood back from New Mexico to the DFW area and the body roll I experienced was off the charts. The slightest road imperfections would cause the truck to rock from side to side until I would be forced to brake and bring it under control. I have pulled my 25ft wakeboard boat multiple times with no issues and I am not concerned with this trucks ability to tow. On a differenct note, I have a 2008 PW that I purchased new and is now the daily driver for my son. This truck is capable of much higher payloads.

Question:

Have any of you experienced this type of body roll? If so, what have you done to deal with this issue? Also, has anyone added overloads or air bags to increase the payload capacity on this generation of PW? It puts a scowl on my face to think that a F-150 has a greater payload than the Ram 2500 PW setting in my drive.

I notice quite of bit of body roll on my 2014 even when unloaded. I attribute it to the shocks and plan on replacing soon.

Check out the thread I started a bit back about this very issue for a little more info about it http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... f=2&t=3544

I am convinced bags are the answer to the problem. Really, the only difference is the softer springs.

Dont worry about the f150 having more payload than your PW. How does it make you feel knowing that my dodge grand caravan I use for work almost has that much LMAO (1150 LB)!

Yooper posted up a pic in that thread of the payload for a truck he test drove. It was 1194 LB. Less than 50 more pounds than my minivan LOL

I noticed that body roll in two vehicles now. on my 2009 ram 1500 I had a big quad in the back and the thing rocked back and fourth horribly. now on my new 15 PW i experienced the same thing but with a lot of concrete in the back. I was also wondering what caused this. its a really bad problem.

Shocks.....

I grew up in an era where nearly all trucks had leaf springs front and rear. The use of a front sway bar started with the introduction of coil springs on HD trucks in the front. Sway bars became mandatory for the front once coils were used on the front of trucks. Only the heavy duty trucks got sway bars in the back. Yes shocks can help control sway, but lean is an entirely different story. Now the PW has coil springs in the back and no sway bar.

This lack of a sway bar combined with soft coils for articulation is where I think the issue really is. Air bags will help a ton, likely as much if not more than shocks alone. If you put on an OEM 2500 sway bar from the same year as your coil suspended truck along with air bags you likely will see things improve immensely in the towing and hauling department but it will kill your articulation. They should have put a sway bar disconnect front and rear on the PW. Then if we wanted to have heavy payloads we can put on air bags.

I'll have to go out and look tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a sway bar under the back end of my 2015.


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I glanced under a 2014 or possibly a 2015 PW don't recall for sure, that I test drove and didn't notice one but it sure felt like it didn't have one with all the body roll I felt in turns. To be honest I was more looking at the 4link system and the shocks that went inside the frame. Looked to me like the biggest shock that might fit is a 2.0 pin top. I saw a HD 2500 and on the lot and was curious if it was also a 4 link and it was but it had an air ride system that looked factory to me. Seemed to me that they knew that coils on the back of a HD Ram 2500 was not going to work out very well. I'm curious to hear what you find. One might look at a HD 2500 and compare the sway bars if the PW has one, just to see if it is any different. Carli air bags might just be the ticket for these trucks if it can be adapted to the PW.

One thing I did notice was when I went through a deep dip at speed it felt like the truck shifted/twisted as the suspension cycled. I assumed that they did opposing mountings of the track bars to cause this but I didn't look to see. I first felt this phenomenon on a 1998 Jeep ZJ and it was opposing or better said mirrored track bar mounting front to rear. I was told that the Jeep TJ had the same thing. So there must be some reason that they do it that way.

azracer wrote:I glanced under a 2014 or possibly a 2015 PW don't recall for sure, that I test drove and didn't notice one but it sure felt like it didn't have one with all the body roll I felt in turns. To be honest I was more looking at the 4link system and the shocks that went inside the frame. Looked to me like the biggest shock that might fit is a 2.0 pin top. I saw a HD 2500 and on the lot and was curious if it was also a 4 link and it was but it had an air ride system that looked factory to me. Seemed to me that they knew that coils on the back of a HD Ram 2500 was not going to work out very well. I'm curious to hear what you find. One might look at a HD 2500 and compare the sway bars if the PW has one, just to see if it is any different. Carli air bags might just be the ticket for these trucks if it can be adapted to the PW.

One thing I did notice was when I went through a deep dip at speed it felt like the truck shifted/twisted as the suspension cycled. I assumed that they did opposing mountings of the track bars to cause this but I didn't look to see. I first felt this phenomenon on a 1998 Jeep ZJ and it was opposing or better said mirrored track bar mounting front to rear. I was told that the Jeep TJ had the same thing. So there must be some reason that they do it that way.

The JK has opposing track bars as well. But it has a sway bar out back too. That is crazy if ram doesn't have one out back.

These two photo's I found on the internet show a sway bar.

My 15 has a rear sway bar stock. It is interesting off road with the front one disconnected you can feel the rear one working. I am planning on quick disconnects for the rear one. I do not see much of a reduction in articulation in the rear, those wheels drop right out of the fender well!


I do not see how you expect shocks to fix this problem. The difference is the springs, and not just because they are coils. The regular 2500s use coils and are rated for over double the payload of the PW models. I see two choices. You can swap out coils from a regular 2500 and probably use spacers to keep the ride height at PW levels or, you fit auxiliary air bags and set them according to the load. The stock shocks should work just fine. If you wore out the stock shocks by overloading the springs and found an improvement by changing shocks, those new shocks are on the same borrowed time. The spring rate needs to be increased to handle the additional load.

Well that photo explains why I didn't see one as it is all hidden by the axle if looking from the front of the rear tire at the suspension. That is a very small diameter sway bar, I bet the HD 2500 is bigger in diameter. Springs or airbags is about the only option for more payload. I think that I would look into airbag options if it were me. Either way you can't have everything in one package, you must sacrifice somewhere.

Air bags work awesome on the new PW's. I have Air Lift bags with Daystar cradles.

I have heard that air lift 5000 bags set up with some daystar cradles is the best way to go with airbags since the coils are taller than a standard 2500. Not sure of the part #'s, maybe someone will chime in with those or a set up that works without limiting the articulation.
Editied, we posted at the same time, ther you go, theres your answer already

Airlift part number 88289. I ended up using a drill and tap to both through the center of the Daystar cradles direct to the bump stop contact plates on the axle.

JBM Power Wagon wrote:Airlift part number 88289. I ended up using a drill and tap to both through the center of the Daystar cradles direct to the bump stop contact plates on the axle.

So do they replace the bumpstops?

Got any pics?

I've been wondering about the payload on the newer PW's. My 2016 is rated for 1200 lbs which seems low. Just today I had the truck weighed before loading some wood in the bed. The weight of the truck with my family in it was 7160 lbs. That is just 40 lbs heavier than what the truck is listed at. My whole family combined probably weighs 400 lbs. Is it possible that the PW's are lighter than advertised and have more payload? I mean we put 440 lbs of wood in the bed plus the family and the truck didn't drop an inch. That is nearly 900 lbs. Unlike some of the other posters I have not noticed any sway or body roll. This truck is tight. Maybe there are some slight differences from the 2016's to the older models?

Zane

Payload capacity isn't solely dependent on the suspension. The total gross vehicle weight listed on your driver's door takes into account a myriad of other factors such as braking distance, tires, tire air pressure, mass of the vehicle during an impact, and other such factors. There are many safety factors that go into the calculation. The 2014+ PW's have a lighter payload than the 2005-2013 PW's mainly because of the rear coil suspension. My 2013 PW has a payload capacity of 1900 lbs.


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Z's2016PW wrote:I've been wondering about the payload on the newer PW's. My 2016 is rated for 1200 lbs which seems low. Just today I had the truck weighed before loading some wood in the bed. The weight of the truck with my family in it was 7160 lbs. That is just 40 lbs heavier than what the truck is listed at. My whole family combined probably weighs 400 lbs. Is it possible that the PW's are lighter than advertised and have more payload? I mean we put 440 lbs of wood in the bed plus the family and the truck didn't drop an inch. That is nearly 900 lbs. Unlike some of the other posters I have not noticed any sway or body roll. This truck is tight. Maybe there are some slight differences from the 2016's to the older models?

Zane

My 2016 is rated to carry 1307 lbs. Last weekend I carried a 900 lb utility ATV in the bed of the truck, and noticed that it only dropped the rear suspension about 1/2". When I stood back and looked at the truck from the side, the rear of the truck was still just a little higher than the front of the truck. With the driver and passenger in the cab we were right at the trucks maximum rated cargo capacity, and although you could feel the weight in the bed of the truck I did not notice any of the sway or body roll other people have reported either. It felt just fine to me, pretty much like any other single rear wheel truck I've owned.

SheepdogOutdoorsman wrote:Payload capacity isn't solely dependent on the suspension. The total gross vehicle weight listed on your driver's door takes into account a myriad of other factors such as braking distance, tires, tire air pressure, mass of the vehicle during an impact, and other such factors. There are many safety factors that go into the calculation. The 2014+ PW's have a lighter payload than the 2005-2013 PW's mainly because of the rear coil suspension. My 2013 PW has a payload capacity of 1900 lbs.


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Well, most of that is just completely untrue.... I don't know how else to call BS. The only thing you are even close on is tires, they have to account for the load capacity of the tires. The tires fitted stock to the PW have nearly 6400 lbs capacity, they are NOT a limiting factor. If it is the coil springs can you explain to me how the standard 2500 series truck, which is nearly identical to the PW version, can carry ~3200 lbs? That model uses coil springs and is rated to carry over double what a PW is. Yet the PW has the same frame, axles, suspension layout, brakes, etc, etc.

The PW uses softer rear springs for off road use. It also has a raised suspension. These two things are surely the cause for the 8510 GVWR instead of the 10,000 of the standard 2500. They were both designed with the factors you mentioned in mind but, those do not constitute any actual differences between models that would account for the payload differences.

Get some airbags, as mentioned right off.

Snowsled wrote:

SheepdogOutdoorsman wrote:Payload capacity isn't solely dependent on the suspension. The total gross vehicle weight listed on your driver's door takes into account a myriad of other factors such as braking distance, tires, tire air pressure, mass of the vehicle during an impact, and other such factors. There are many safety factors that go into the calculation. The 2014+ PW's have a lighter payload than the 2005-2013 PW's mainly because of the rear coil suspension. My 2013 PW has a payload capacity of 1900 lbs.


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Well, most of that is just completely untrue.... I don't know how else to call BS. The only thing you are even close on is tires, they have to account for the load capacity of the tires. The tires fitted stock to the PW have nearly 6400 lbs capacity, they are NOT a limiting factor. If it is the coil springs can you explain to me how the standard 2500 series truck, which is nearly identical to the PW version, can carry ~3200 lbs? That model uses coil springs and is rated to carry over double what a PW is. Yet the PW has the same frame, axles, suspension layout, brakes, etc, etc.

The PW uses softer rear springs for off road use. It also has a raised suspension. These two things are surely the cause for the 8510 GVWR instead of the 10,000 of the standard 2500. They were both designed with the factors you mentioned in mind but, those do not constitute any actual differences between models that would account for the payload differences.

Get some airbags, as mentioned right off.

Well, it's not BS. I have degrees in automotive technology and mechanical engineering, and worked for Mazda NAO as a technical specialist and consultant. The items I listed are some of the factors that can go into the calculation, but not all of them. By some of your statements, it seems as if you have very little knowledge of how vehicles are engineered, nevertheless what makes the Power Wagon different from a stock Ram 2500. I suggest you do more research before calling BS.


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Unless the scale that I was on yesterday was off by 400 pounds I would say that the newer Power Wagons are lighter than advertised. Probably more in line with the non Power Wagon hemi trucks. Based on my observations and MoparToYou I would say the coil sprung trucks are probably closer to a 2000 pound payload than originally realized. Using the information that I gave my payload should be at 1800 pounds. It is hard to fathom how a truck could be maxed out on its payload and not sag, MoparToYou's observations. Mine was at 75 percent with no movement at all. Maybe the new coils are rated for more but not advertised? That would be strange. What do you all think?

Zane

This has been discussed a LOT on this forum...
The Power Wagon soft suspension (for articulation) is why we are given the 8510 lb. GVWR. Not the tires - not the axels - not the brakes. The last gen trucks are heavy - so there's not much left for payload on paper. Yes, our trucks can easily carry 2000 lbs stock.
Take a read through this thread for lots more details and comments:
http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... f=2&t=3094

Snowsled wrote: ... If it is the coil springs can you explain to me how the standard 2500 series truck, which is nearly identical to the PW version, can carry ~3200 lbs? ...

...
...

... The PW uses softer rear springs for off road use. It also has a raised suspension. These two things are surely the cause for the 8510 GVWR instead of the 10,000 of the standard 2500....

... those do not constitute any actual differences between models that would account for the payload differences.

Get some airbags, as mentioned right off.

You asked a question, then answered your own question, then completely contradicted it... all in the same post.

Obviously pretty much the only difference is the softer suspension (not axles, brakes, frames etc.). That DEFINITELY lowers the payload.

But yes. Toss some bags in the rear, and in my eyes the PW can safely handle the same loads that a non PW can safely handle.