Extending the OCI in the 'Wagon

MSparks909 · Post by **MSparks909** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:33 pm

I've been running Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 synthetic now for about 40K miles with pretty good results (good oil pressure; no visible consumption between changes; increased protection vs. other 5W-20 & 5W-30 oils). Some oil changes I went upwards of 8K miles between changes, but most changes were around 6K miles without burning a drop of oil. My current one is a little over 6,400 miles (have NOT changed it yet). I've also been using the K&N wrench-off style filter (the 1" nut makes filter changes stupid easy now). The recommended K&N filter for our trucks is #2004. After some research I realized that I could run the longer K&N #3001 filter to give me an 8 quart oil capacity vs. the stock 7 quart capacity. I'm "due" for a change now but I decided to have Blackstone Labs run an analysis on my current oil and see how far I can push the OCI before I have to change the oil out. The Rotella T6 retails for $29/gal. locally and the K&N filter adds around $15 to that. I'm looking at $75-80 per oil change, and on my budget I'd like to get my money's worth since I'm running a higher quality (and priced) oil. I should get the test kit in 1-2 weeks.

The plan is to change out my current filter in another 1100 miles and then I'll install a new filter & top off the oil level. I'll send in the sample of the 7500 mile oil and post the results. Would really like to be able to run a 15-20K mile OCI while doing a filter change around the 7500-8K mile range. That would save me some money in the long run and I would be using that oil to it's full capacity (I hate to waste oil that still has life in it). I'll do another oil analysis around 14-15K on this sample to see how it's doing unless Blackstone Labs advises for me to change it sooner. Might get a FilterMag while I'm at it and toss it on the current filter...

Post by **ldgregory** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:21 pm

I've got a long thread back on DT about this. I've been running 10K between oil changes with Mobil-1 5w-20 and a TG16 Fram filter. Everything was looking great till I had a senior moment and ran 16K in between. The oil didn't look so hot in the analysis from Blackstone, so I'm running to 7K this interval and test again. They don't think I damaged anything serious, but they said the oil was toast.

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TwinStick · Post by **TwinStick** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:02 pm

I am starting to change mine once a year, whether it needs it or not ! Yup, once a year. I ain't scared. My oil has been in for just about a year now. Royal Purple, stock Mopar filter (mine is 22mm thread & i have not found a bigger/longer one yet that will fit) & an industrial duty Filter-Mag. Truck has 28,300 miles right now. You guys ALL owe it to your truck to run an industrial duty Filter-Mag. They simply work. They don't just attract metal---they HOLD THE METAL WHILE THE ENGINE IS RUNNING, eliminating it wearing on the engine.

This is the side of the filter that the Filter-Mag was NOT on. Nothing there at all.

This is the side WITH the Filter-Mag. You can see the metal. It don't look like much, but looks are deceiving.

One swipe with my finger.

There was actually quite a lot of crap on there. This filter only had 1500 miles on it. I put it on my truck when i went to pick it up, new from the dealer.

MSparks909 · Post by **MSparks909** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:33 am

ldgregory wrote:I've got a long thread back on DT about this. I've been running 10K between oil changes with Mobil-1 5w-20 and a TG16 Fram filter. Everything was looking great till I had a senior moment and ran 16K in between. The oil didn't look so hot in the analysis from Blackstone, so I'm running to 7K this interval and test again. They don't think I damaged anything serious, but they said the oil was toast.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk over a 300 baud Racal-Vadic Acoustically Coupled Modem.

That's pretty good. Like I said, I'm pretty sure I was throwing away perfectly good oil before. If I was running a synthetic oil filter like Amsoil or Royal Purple I'd probably just stick with 10,000 mile changes, but since I'm not I'll change the K&N out @ 7500 for a new one, top off with new oil and run it to 15K. I'm interested in seeing how the oil is faring at the 15K mark. Do you have Blackstone test your oil every time you change it?

MSparks909 · Post by **MSparks909** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:33 am

TwinStick wrote:I am starting to change mine once a year, whether it needs it or not ! Yup, once a year. I ain't scared. My oil has been in for just about a year now. Royal Purple, stock Mopar filter (mine is 22mm thread & i have not found a bigger/longer one yet that will fit) & an industrial duty Filter-Mag. Truck has 28,300 miles right now. You guys ALL owe it to your truck to run an industrial duty Filter-Mag. They simply work. They don't just attract metal---they HOLD THE METAL WHILE THE ENGINE IS RUNNING, eliminating it wearing on the engine.

This is the side of the filter that the Filter-Mag was NOT on. Nothing there at all.

This is the side WITH the Filter-Mag. You can see the metal. It don't look like much, but looks are deceiving.

One swipe with my finger.

There was actually quite a lot of crap on there. This filter only had 1500 miles on it. I put it on my truck when i went to pick it up, new from the dealer.

I really need to get one of these...

TwinStick · Post by **TwinStick** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:42 am

RA-365 is what you need.

MSparks909 · Post by **MSparks909** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:39 pm

TwinStick wrote:RA-365 is what you need.

Gracias, Senor!

Post by **Cactus Red** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:17 pm

I used the Blackstone testing service back in '09 when I had concerns about my '98 Tacoma. Sent in a sample, and based on the report, decided to buy the PW and sell the Taco. The report showed an elevated amount of bearing material, and that confirmed what I had seen visually in the prior oil change. Just a weeeeeeeee bit of sparkle in the oil...

MSparks909 · Post by **MSparks909** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:30 pm

Cactus Red wrote:I used the Blackstone testing service back in '09 when I had concerns about my '98 Tacoma. Sent in a sample, and based on the report, decided to buy the PW and sell the Taco. The report showed an elevated amount of bearing material, and that confirmed what I had seen visually in the prior oil change. Just a weeeeeeeee bit of sparkle in the oil...

Guess the reports are pretty useful! Hopefully my oil analysis comes out clean (and continues to do so until I retire the ol 'Wagon at around 175-200K).

Post by **ldgregory** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:39 pm

MSparks909 wrote:
ldgregory wrote:I've got a long thread back on DT about this. I've been running 10K between oil changes with Mobil-1 5w-20 and a TG16 Fram filter. Everything was looking great till I had a senior moment and ran 16K in between. The oil didn't look so hot in the analysis from Blackstone, so I'm running to 7K this interval and test again. They don't think I damaged anything serious, but they said the oil was toast.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk over a 300 baud Racal-Vadic Acoustically Coupled Modem.
That's pretty good. Like I said, I'm pretty sure I was throwing away perfectly good oil before. If I was running a synthetic oil filter like Amsoil or Royal Purple I'd probably just stick with 10,000 mile changes, but since I'm not I'll change the K&N out @ 7500 for a new one, top off with new oil and run it to 15K. I'm interested in seeing how the oil is faring at the 15K mark. Do you have Blackstone test your oil every time you change it?

I tested the first five times and then quit for a bit. I sent in the last one because I'd gone to 16K accidentally.

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TwinStick · Post by **TwinStick** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:35 pm

I just changed my oil today. 28, 237 miles on it. It has been in for a year, same with the filter. I cut the filter open to check it. It was slightly less than what is in the above pics. Still diligently doing it's job is the RA 365 Filter-Mag. The filter media did not look bad at all. Still running stock Mopar filters. Royal Purple went back in, Mopar filter & Filter-Mag back on outside of new filter. Maybe i will send in a sample next year, just before or when i change it ?

On a side note: A guy i work with supposedly had an engine fail under warranty. He is an Amsoil dealer & had it in his engine. They are refusing to cover it because they are blaming the oil. I will have to talk with him & report back with more details.

Weststsh · Post by **Weststsh** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:12 pm

Bump lookin to change to the shell t6 on next oil change, lookin to see if you got your results back?

coder · Post by **coder** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:47 pm

You guy are nuts!

Since my engine was broken-in I have used Mobile 1 5w-20 and a Mopar or Wix filter every 3k, I get everything at walmart for under $45.

It seams like you are sacrificing engine to save the oil, shouldn't you be sacrificing the oil to save the engine!

Throttle 8 · Post by **Throttle 8** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:47 pm

I only change my oil twice a year---spring and fall. I use Royal Purple with a Wix filter.
I only drive the Wagon 5000km (3000miles) a year though!

MSparks909 · Post by **MSparks909** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:36 am

Weststsh wrote:Bump lookin to change to the shell t6 on next oil change, lookin to see if you got your results back?

Not yet. Truck has been parked for about a week now. I've been out of town. I get back Sat. I've got about 6,600 miles on my current oil. By the end of next week I should have 7K on it. I'll send in the sample then and post results. Still planning on changing filter @ 7500 and running the oil to 15K unless Blackstone labs advises otherwise. And Rotella T6 is a damn good oil for our Hemi's.

MSparks909 · Post by **MSparks909** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:40 am

coder wrote:You guy are nuts!

Since my engine was broken-in I have used Mobile 1 5w-20 and a Mopar or Wix filter every 3k, I get everything at walmart for under $45.

It seams like you are sacrificing engine to save the oil, shouldn't you be sacrificing the oil to save the engine!

Jeeze! No offense but you're throwing away perfectly good oil. No need to change synthetic every 3K. You could easily stretch it to 5K (and 6K or more if you run a heavier weight oil to combat oil shear as the oil wears such as a 5W-30/5W-40). I'm just trying to get the absolute most I can out of the oil and then change it. I'm just trying to maximize my money's worth. Won't harm the engine if I change it when the additives are worn out. This Rotella T6 has much more additives than "regular" Mobil 1 and the like for passenger cars. It's a seriously heavy duty oil and it should be able to last to 15K with a filter change/topoff halfway through @ 7500 miles. But that's why I will do an oil analysis. Just to be safe.

MSparks909 · Post by **MSparks909** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:41 am

Throttle 8 wrote:I only change my oil twice a year---spring and fall. I use Royal Purple with a Wix filter.
I only drive the Wagon 5000km (3000miles) a year though!

Wow! I put that on in about 2 months

I should be @ 100,000 by this time next year, if not earlier.

RustyPW · Post by **RustyPW** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:24 pm

You all should do like I did. Changed my oil twice in 10 days.

Changed it. Drove out to Moab. Drove back, and changed it again. Had put 5,000 miles on the PW for that trip.

Used Mobil1 5w-20 with a Pure filer.

coder · Post by **coder** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:21 pm

MSparks909 wrote: Jeeze! No offense but you're throwing away perfectly good oil. No need to change synthetic every 3K. You could easily stretch it to 5K (and 6K or more if you run a heavier weight oil to combat oil shear as the oil wears such as a 5W-30/5W-40). I'm just trying to get the absolute most I can out of the oil and then change it. I'm just trying to maximize my money's worth. Won't harm the engine if I change it when the additives are worn out. This Rotella T6 has much more additives than "regular" Mobil 1 and the like for passenger cars. It's a seriously heavy duty oil and it should be able to last to 15K with a filter change/top-off halfway through @ 7500 miles. But that's why I will do an oil analysis. Just to be safe.

Hello MSparks909, no offense taken, I'm just putting forth my point of view with a little enthusiasm, and hopefully you'll do the same!

- You're throwing away perfectly good oil. - Not at all, I am simply following the recommendation of the engineers that designed the engine for optimal protection. Anything else is a down-grade in protection.

- You could easily stretch it to 5K or 6K. - - You are right I could but, I am more interested in the engine lasting than the oil.

- Rotella T6 has much more additives than "regular" Mobil 1. - That is true but, how do you know they are compatible with the seals, fuel, metal, and compression ration, and operating temperatures in a gasoline engine? There is a reason why there are different oils for different engines.

- But that's why I will do an oil analysis. Just to be safe. - That's a great idea I might consider doing the same at some point.

LKelly · Post by **LKelly** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:03 pm

I've also been running the Rotella T6 5w-40 in my truck, and have been very happy with it. I started with synthetic 5w-20, then M1 0w-40, and finally the Rotella - and my truck definitely seems to like the Rotella the best, and now it doesn't sound quite as much like I'm running a diesel.

My truck *really* didn't like the M1 0w-40...I changed that out with less than 1,000 miles on it, because at cold starts the engine sounded like somebody'd dumped gravel into the bearings. Which is a bit odd, because I know that other folks are running the 0w-40 M1 in their PWs...maybe they're in warmer climates, or perhaps my truck has some sort of preexisting condition. I've actually had that experience with other vehicles - you'd think that the thinner oil would be better at 20 below zero, but some of my trucks couldn't tolerate anything thinner than a 5w or 10w...right now I don't run a 0w in anything.

As far as extending the OCI goes, I drive less than 5,000 miles a year - so I just change the oil once a year. Even when I drove 40K a year, I still changed mine at 5 or 6K even though my oil analysis results said that I was throwing away good oil.

Sometimes I wonder if oil even matters as much as we think it does...one of my old farm trucks ran the cheapest 10w-30 oil around, and ran fine until the head gasket went out at 314,000 miles. For a gas engine, that's not bad...though I didn't bother to fix the head gasket, because the truck's frame had rusted away.

MSparks909 · Post by **MSparks909** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:19 pm

UGHHHH!!!! STUPID COMPUTER!!! I just posted an extremely long response and hit submit and OF COURSE it said I wasn't logged in (even though I was) and deleted my post

I'll re-type it when I have more time.

MSparks909 · Post by **MSparks909** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:56 pm

coder wrote:Hello MSparks909, no offense taken, I'm just putting forth my point of view with a little enthusiasm, and hopefully you'll do the same!

- You're throwing away perfectly good oil. - Not at all, I am simply following the recommendation of the engineers that designed the engine for optimal protection. Anything else is a down-grade in protection.

- You could easily stretch it to 5K or 6K. - - You are right I could but, I am more interested in the engine lasting than the oil.

- Rotella T6 has much more additives than "regular" Mobil 1. - That is true but, how do you know they are compatible with the seals, fuel, metal, and compression ration, and operating temperatures in a gasoline engine? There is a reason why there are different oils for different engines.

- But that's why I will do an oil analysis. Just to be safe. - That's a great idea I might consider doing the same at some point.

The recommended OCI under the "severe" service schedule provided by Chrysler assumes that the user is running a synthetic blend oil. Since you're running a synthetic oil you could safely extend the OCI. How far you extend it is dependent on personal preference/oil analysis.

Rotella T6 carries the following ratings:
API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, C4, SM, SL, SH; ACEA E9; Caterpillar ECF-3, ECF-2; Cummins CES 20081; DDC 93K218; Ford WSS M2C171-E; JASO DH2, MA; Mack EO-0 Premium Plus; MAN 3275; MB Approval 228.31; Volvo VDS-4

The "SM, SL and SH" ratings certify this oil for use in spark engines. The "API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 and C4" ratings certify the oil for use in compression engines. In comparison, Mobil 1 oil carries a "SM" rating. Rotella T6 is safe for use in both gasoline and diesel engines, even though the targeted use is in diesel engines. That is one of the main reasons I considered this oil for use in my gasoline engine; let me explain. Diesel engines have much higher pressures, compression ratios and temperatures inside an engine than a comparable gasoline engine could ever produce. Additionally, the newer diesel engines run very intrusive EGR systems which continuously pump soot into the engine in addition to very restrictive DPF exhaust after-treatment systems. This makes for an extremely harsh environment for an oil to function in. Rotella T6 has increased levels of high performance ashless chemistry which helps keep soot particles apart; ie this oil has some serious detergents in it. In theory, if it is suitable for use in the harsh environment of newer diesel engines and can help keep the engine from developing soot-related deposit issues, then it should keep my engine squeaky clean on the inside.

Additionally, this oil has a higher viscosity than other "passenger vehicle" synthetic oils that I considered. Higher viscosity oils protect engines better than lower viscosity oils; there's no getting around that. The only reason that the "Big 3" American manufacturers recommend 5W-20 oils is for fuel economy purposes due to increasingly strict CAFE requirements. The downside to a thinner oil is less wear protection. So a 1-2% fuel economy improvement over 5W-30/5W-40 oils can lead to a 20% or higher decrease in engine life. There's a reason that Bentley, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche and Audi spec 0W-40/5W-40 oils for use in their high performance engines: they protect better than thinner oils. In some instances, these manufacturers even recommend 20W-50 and higher weight oils if the vehicles are seeing heavy racing use. There has been rumors circulating on the internet that the "Big 3" switched to lighter weight oils because of tighter tolerances in modern engines. Yes, today's engines have tighter tolerances than engines from the 70's and 80's, but it would be foolish to think that running a 5W-30/5W-40 oil would harm our 5.7 Hemi's due to oil starvation. If Lamborghini recommends 20W-50 oil in their extremely intricate engines there's no reason we can't run heavier oils to protect our engine's better.

Another argument against running diesel oils in gasoline engines is that these oils can lead to faster-than-normal catalytic converter deaths in gasoline engines. This is another myth. First off, the newer diesel engines (post 2007) have catalytic converters standard. You would think that this oil that meets Duramax, Cummins and Powerstroke oil ratings wouldn't harm the catalytic converters on these newer diesels. And it doesn't. Perhaps 10-15 years ago running a diesel engine oil in your gasoline engine could have led to faster catalytic converter deaths. As the oil ratings changed, allowable levels of phosphorous and zinc (both of which are necessary in engine wear protection) have decreased. High levels of zinc and phosphorous lead to earlier-than-normal catalytic converter deaths. The "SM" rating of Rotella T6 means that this oil have zinc and phosphorous levels of less than 600 ppm. 10-15 years ago "SG" rated oils could have zinc and phosphorous levels in the 12-1300 ppm range. Comparably, Mobil 1 oil has the same "SM" rating. However, since this oil is targeted primarily at diesel customers, it still has higher levels of phosphorous and zinc than Mobil 1 does, which helps extend engine life.

To sum up why I run this oil, it has increased detergents which help keep my engine cleaner internally, it has a higher viscosity which provides greater protection than 5W-30/5W-40 oils, and it has higher levels of phosphorous which help prevent wear. Plus it's cheap and I can get it at Walmart.

Here's a link to Rotella T6 if you want to check it out:
http://www-static.shell.com/static/can- ... lla_t6.pdf

Here's some links to 5W-20 oils and how they provide decreased protection compared to 5W-40/10W-40 oils and how they were enacted for CAFE requirements:
http://www.synlube.com/sae5w-20.htm
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils
http://www.smartsynthetics.com/articles/5w20oil.htm

Here's a link to the Blackstone Labs website if interested:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

At the very least, I strongly recommend switching to at least 5W-30 oil (5W-40 is better) to provide greater protection for your engine. I also highly recommend that you read those links I posted regarding 5W-20 oil. If you really want to protect your engine the best, then consider upping the viscosity/switching brands, etc. Valvoline also makes a 5W-40 oil that is very similar to Shell Rotella T6. It's called Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme. Mobil 1 also makes a 5W-40 Turbo Diesel truck oil that isn't quite as good as Shell Rotella T6. For me, Rotella T6 is the oil of choice. Easily available, relatively cheap for all of the protection that I get, and I personally feel it's the best oil for our 5.7 Hemi's.

As for the 15K mile OCI thing...that is more of a curiosity issue. I want to see how long this oil will protect my engine and will certainly post the results @ 7K miles (before my 7500 mile filter/oil topoff) and I'll post results @ 14K miles. If I'm advised by Blackstone to change it before 15K, then that's perfectly fine. This is just an experiment of sorts.
Good debate sir

Weststsh · Post by **Weststsh** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:06 pm

MSparks909 wrote:
Weststsh wrote:Bump lookin to change to the shell t6 on next oil change, lookin to see if you got your results back?
Not yet. Truck has been parked for about a week now. I've been out of town. I get back Sat. I've got about 6,600 miles on my current oil. By the end of next week I should have 7K on it. I'll send in the sample then and post results. Still planning on changing filter @ 7500 and running the oil to 15K unless Blackstone labs advises otherwise. And Rotella T6 is a damn good oil for our Hemi's.

Perfect by the time you run it through blackstone I'll be due for a change to t6, lookin forward to the analysis! Oh yeah good argument on post above.

TwinStick · Post by **TwinStick** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:05 am

Or, you could just use a qt or 2 of the new "new engine break-in oil", that has high/er levels of zinc & phosphorus, at the next oil change ?

Have you ever noticed that every single time the "little guy" has something that seems to be working great, the E.P.A. ALWAYS steps in and says "no no no, thats not good for the environment because ******** ?"

Diesel motors in pickup trucks---trucks started lasting 500,000+ miles. No no no, we have to go to low sulphur diesel. (lubricates upper cylinder & helps make engines last)
Gasoline engines started lasting 2-300,000+ miles. No, no, no, we have to get rid of zinc & phosphorus in the oil. (reduces friction & keeps engines clean)
Diesel motors in pickups still lasting 400,000 miles. No no no, we have to go to Ultra-Low sulphur diesel. (trucks still seem to be lasting too long---lets reduce it more)
Diesel pickup owners start making their own bio-diesel in their garages. No no no, they want you to have a "petroleum distillers license" (This a pollution-free vehicle, you would think that the EPA would want & encourage it, but no, they throw more road blocks in your way.)

Environmental Profit Agency maybe ?

MSparks909 · Post by **MSparks909** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:24 am

Weststsh wrote:
MSparks909 wrote:
Weststsh wrote:Bump lookin to change to the shell t6 on next oil change, lookin to see if you got your results back?
Not yet. Truck has been parked for about a week now. I've been out of town. I get back Sat. I've got about 6,600 miles on my current oil. By the end of next week I should have 7K on it. I'll send in the sample then and post results. Still planning on changing filter @ 7500 and running the oil to 15K unless Blackstone labs advises otherwise. And Rotella T6 is a damn good oil for our Hemi's.
Perfect by the time you run it through blackstone I'll be due for a change to t6, lookin forward to the analysis! Oh yeah good argument on post above.

Sounds good! And thanks haha.

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