Starting to hate my G56...

[MSparks909]

Less than 1,500 miles ago I had my clutch, release and pilot bearings replaced. All was good until I started hearing a noise in neutral after driving on the highway for some time. Did some more research and it could be a bad input shaft bearing (finger's crossed it's not). Poured over tons of threads on popular diesel forums and apparently this isn't an unheard of issue. Nearly every truck I read about over 100,000 miles has required either clutch or transmission work. Pissed I can't even make it 100,000 miles with good maintenance before this "reliable" transmission starts giving me problem after problem. And I have a Serv4x4 light that comes on intermittently yet my lockers and sway bar work fine.

[wagonlvr]

Less than 1,500 miles ago I had my clutch, release and pilot bearings replaced. All was good until I started hearing a noise in neutral after driving on the highway for some time. Did some more research and it could be a bad input shaft bearing (finger's crossed it's not). Poured over tons of threads on popular diesel forums and apparently this isn't an unheard of issue. Nearly every truck I read about over 100,000 miles has required either clutch or transmission work. Pissed I can't even make it 100,000 miles with good maintenance before this "reliable" transmission starts giving me problem after problem. And I have a Serv4x4 light that comes on intermittently yet my lockers and sway bar work fine.

Sorry to hear of the problems your having. You'll have to keep us posted where this goes. I have come to the conclusion that if mine starts to give me grief I will have to move to a state that doesn't have smog Nazi as I will get rid of the entire drivetrain and replace with stroked carbureted big block of yesterday as well as dump the aam axles for a set of dynatrac 80s. I would rather dump more money in what I have than start over. Its only money Rt?

[MSparks909]

It is only money...glad I've been putting in 60 hour weeks! Transmission is out of the truck again. I'm also having them dump my Gorilla Juice while they have the truck and re-fill with ATF+4. Gonna run that for a couple hundred miles to flush the internals to rid them of what remains of the Gorilla Juice. Read some threads over on Cummins Forum for a good 2+ hours today. Learned a ton about G56 transmission fluids. The Gorilla Juice that was so hyped 2-3 years ago is not what it seems...way too thick for our application and is not what it's hyped to be. Gonna be re-filling with Mobil 1 Mobil Trans SHC DC. Stuff is $85 a gallon but I need this transmission to last. This is *THE* recommended fluid by Mercedes Benz for the G56. Mobil Delvac Synthetic Transmission 50 is very, very similar to Mobil Trans SHC DC but it doesn't have as much Boron (detergent) and is slightly thicker. Delvac 50 retails for ~$77. Only place I found that sells gallon sized containers of Mobil 1 SHC DC is here: http://emac2.org/4.html
I ordered 2 gallons.

[TrueCowboy426]

How bad is your input bearing whine? Mine has whined since I have put this trans in (around 2yrs ago) and it hasn't failed on me yet. Mine is loud enough that I can hear it over the cut out (sitting idling), and if someone is outside the truck talking to me, I usually push the clutch in so we don't have to listen to it whine. Depending on how bad it is, I wouldn't get to excited yet. Mine is loud and I have beat this trans pretty hard since I put it in, with no failure of the bearing yet.

[TwinStick]

How many miles on trans ? Knock on wood, zero issues here with mine but only 31,900 miles on it.

[MSparks909]

How bad is your input bearing whine? Mine has whined since I have put this trans in (around 2yrs ago) and it hasn't failed on me yet. Mine is loud enough that I can hear it over the cut out (sitting idling), and if someone is outside the truck talking to me, I usually push the clutch in so we don't have to listen to it whine. Depending on how bad it is, I wouldn't get to excited yet. Mine is loud and I have beat this trans pretty hard since I put it in, with no failure of the bearing yet.

Mine's about as loud as yours. It's gets noticeably louder after towing or long highway drives. While it would probably last me a while I don't want to play roulette with my transmission. Rather go ahead and fix the problem now then pay the price later.

[fbenross]

I think your smart to dump the gorilla juice. What's in it ? who knows ? I also think it's a bad idea to mix different oils. Are the engineers smarter at Chrysler than Mercedes ? I don't know, but I do know some thought went into the recommended oil from both companies. Both oils are fine to use IMHO. People seem to be freaked out cuz it's "red" or "It's too thin"...I have looked into ATF-4 a lot cuz I was still thinking old school..."you can't use ATF in a stick"!! But if you look into the science behind ATF-4 you'll see that it is a high quality oil with a lot of great wear properties and holds up very well over time compared to other oils. My truck only has 32,000mi but they have been tuff miles. Time will tell. This from Mobil (a company that knows a little about oil) about ATF-4: recommended for certin transmissions,transaxels and transfer cases.. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/ ... ATF_4.aspx

[TwinStick]

My money says: go with the Mercedes specs. Mercedes still has a work ethic. Chrysler (in America anyways) workers probably do what they are told vs doing the right thing. I often wondered why Chrysler spec'ed different fluid for the same transmissions. It was common when i was in Germany to see 20+ year old Mercedes & BMW's still on the road being driven & looked like new. Not so much in the USA. One taxi cab i was in had 1.3 million kms on it. Said the engine only had one top end overhaul & had never been out of the vehicle. It was a small diesel.

[05PWrockcrawler]

Germans keep they're vehicles clean and well taken care of. Drive them fast on the Autobahn though. Had a few 20 year old rigs over there that ran and looked great when I was stationed there. Really liked Germany had some great times there.

[fbenross]

My money says: go with the Mercedes specs. Mercedes still has a work ethic. Chrysler (in America anyways) workers probably do what they are told vs doing the right thing. I often wondered why Chrysler spec'ed different fluid for the same transmissions. It was common when i was in Germany to see 20+ year old Mercedes & BMW's still on the road being driven & looked like new. Not so much in the USA. One taxi cab i was in had 1.3 million kms on it. Said the engine only had one top end overhaul & had never been out of the vehicle. It was a small diesel.

I don't know how you can say the employees of Chrysler have no work ethic...That's a pretty wide net your throwing over everyone at a large and successful company. I guess no one should be buying a Chrysler product then.

[TwinStick]

I guess maybe i didn't explain properly maybe. I mean that in America, they are told to design things to certain parameters (do what your told or find a new job method) vs in Germany, they are genuinely interested in making things last as long as possible & if an employee can find fault in something, they fix it properly & are rewarded for it. (Most) American manufacturers put that method of thinking to the wayside years ago. Thats why German Ford Fiestas get 73 mpg & ours do not. For America, it's all about the $$$$$$$. How much can i make with as little input as possible, seems to be the thinking now. Thats why our vehicles keep having the same issues for decades. They know what you want better than you know what you want, so to speak. Even though it is the same company, the different countries do things totally different. If it was not for Mercedes/Dahlmler Chrysler & the bail outs, they would be belly up by now probably. The very fact that the same company, in 2 different countries, spec two different lubricants, for the exact same transmission is proof positive of that fact.

I think we have had this conversation before. I agree to disagree.

[azracer]

I feel I need to chime in here.

Well the input bearing issue and the needle bearings in the half shaft is a very old issue for just about all larger manual transmissions. The problem is that if infrequently driven and or allowed to idle in neutral to warm up, the bearing has no residual and very little if any splash lubrication in neutral. The gears must turn to get lubrication to the front bearing and the needle bearings at the top of the transmission.

The way to be sure if it is an input bearing or the half shaft needle bearings is to see if it goes quiet in 4th gear (1 to 1 ratio). If it goes quiet at 1 to 1 ratio then it is the half shaft needle bearings.

One way to avoid some of this is to immediately start rolling the truck so as to move the oil back to the top gears and eventually to those bearings that are running dry on startup. You want to be in 1 to 1 ratio as soon as possible in colder weather to allow oil to get back on the half shaft bearings before letting them work too much in the thicker oil when cold.

Another way to help avoid this problem is to add an oil stabilizer like Morey's heavy duty oil stabilizer to the recommended lubrication fluid the Morey's instructions say just what percentage to use based on the planned use If I recall it is 10-25%. You see this stuff is like peanut butter or a very heavy honey. The thickness is not why it works, it works because it will not come off of the metal because it creates a thin film of lubrication on everything. Once blended in the OEM oil it makes the oil stick to the parts so they will never again run dry on startup. I get mine at Napa by the gallon and add it to all my manual transmissions and all of splash lubricated equipment. This product also seems to help limit the foaming inherent to all synthetic oils. This stuff prevents the lubrication from all draining back to the bottom leaving a thin layer of lubrication on everything. I found out about this stuff when I was placed in charge of the WRM (war readiness material) fleet back in my service years. It made a huge difference on long term stored vehicles and other mechanized equipment. It is also a great assembly lube for everything but the cam and hydraulic lifters, yes all the seals too. I run a pint in my differentials too. I don't trust or like any of the other oil stabilizers.

IMHO anything that is pressure lubricated will do fine without an oil stabilizer if used somewhat regularly, as lubrication goes directly to where it is needed and pressure is very immediate on startup.

Just for reference not a place I buy from.
http://www.denunzioracing.com/shop/moreys/moreys.html

[TwinStick]

In the G56, 5th gear is 1:1.

I agree with you azracer. Since i have added the LLube to my G56's ATF+4, it shifts smoother & you feel less metal-to-metal contact through the shift lever. It seems to work better all the way around for me. I know that ATF+4 is a high quality full synthetic lubricant, it is just UBER thin. That causes it to drip off after it is parked when hot. A HD oil stabilizer helps eliminate that problem. For my G56, life is good. I did that when mine only had 196 miles on it.

[MSparks909]

Well...here's a twist in my G56 saga. Picked up the truck this morning. Dealership couldn't find anything wrong with my release, pilot or input shaft bearings. All were smooth and in spec. They then moved on to the Centerforce clutch pressure plate itself and narrowed that down as being the culprit of the noise. This clutch design uses sliding weights that spin outward as RPM's increase to increase the clutch clamping pressure. The caveat to this design is that at idle there isn't enough centrifugal force to spin the weights to the outside of the pressure plate, so they rattle. I called Centerforce and they confirmed the dealership's findings. "Nature of a performance clutch" is what they told me. So with that said I'm just gonna drive the truck (even though it sounds AWFUL at idle) and just get used to it. I'll still be ditching the ATF+4 in a couple hundred miles for the Mobil stuff.

[VA_Wagon Man]

Glad to hear there won't be a repair......sometimes you have sacrifice one thing for another.

Sent from the middle of nowhere.

[TwinStick]

You would think that CenterForce would alert buyers to this & to expect this, so they don't think something is wrong & unnecessarily spend money looking for a problem that does not exist !!!! I'm just sayin'.

[FirerescuePW]

Sooooo...... You missed the Rausch Creek trip for nothing. That sucks.

[MSparks909]

Pretty much. Pissed I had to drop $600 on what I would have bet my left nut was a bad input shaft bearing and turns out its just "characteristics of a high performance clutch." Extremely irritated but it is what it is I guess. For anyone that's on the fence about installing this clutch...keep in mind that it will make miracca sounds at idle

Sorry I missed the trip for nothing guys. Hope y'all had a blast. Maybe next year...

[azracer]

Pretty much. Pissed I had to drop $600 on what I would have bet my left nut was a bad input shaft bearing and turns out its just "characteristics of a high performance clutch." Extremely irritated but it is what it is I guess. For anyone that's on the fence about installing this clutch...keep in mind that it will make miracca sounds at idle

Sorry I missed the trip for nothing guys. Hope y'all had a blast. Maybe next year...

I had the same clutch on my 72 scout II and my 91 jeep Cherokee and never had any noise. I would have put one in my Jeep J20 but they did not make one for a 304 Jeep.

I can see where it may have a noise with that fly weight design. I think I would be very pissed too paying $600 for something that Center force should have warned me about!

[TwinStick]

Any update on this yet ? When does the new fluid go in ?

[TrueCowboy426]

As someone who is looking to put in a new clutch and flywheel shortly (hopefully before pulling season gets under way) would you put that clutch in again? Also did you put in a new flywheel (do they even make one??) to get rid of the dual mass one we have?

[TwinStick]

There are other options !


http://www.alligatorperformance.com/311 ... 10899.html

http://www.atsdiesel.com/ats2/product.a ... nsmissions

[fbenross]

I have to say that azracer is telling me Mercedes engineers can't design a trans that properly lubes itself under common conditions. And others are saying that the Mercedes engineers do know all about what oil to use. Maybe cuz they can't design a good tranny, you need thicker oil. Or maybe atf-4 has more shear strength..??? but you need Morey's additive cuz he knows best !! Here is MHO - save your money on additives. Here is the atf-4 story http://u225.torque.net/cars/tech/trans/982674.pdf Lubrizol put all the additives in and Texaco provided the base oil... big companies with lots of smart people and lots of money for testing.(2,000,000 miles).show me a report like this on Morey's or any additive stuff... When you put additives in you change the chemical formula to what ???? On this whole topic (clutch) and (oil) and (tranny) I say use the kiss method and you'll save money. And get a lot of miles out of your rig. link on additives http://www.angelfire.com/ia3/autocare/additivesoil.htm