2014+ Suspension/Lift Options = NOTHING

Post by **DamageWagon** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:56 pm

olyelr wrote:
DamageWagon wrote:Whatever idiot said the new trucks only have 4.10 gears should be fired. After his head is surgically removed from his ass.

That comment was made back in 2015...

I didn't waste my time reading it since it was from AEV's forum. I did like that they said "WE" are working on gears. Which would be a departure from spacers and brackets and pretty bumpers. Functional parts requiring materials knowledge? Whoa, gettin' crazy now!

Reloaderguy · Post by **Reloaderguy** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:01 am

olyelr wrote:
DamageWagon wrote:Whatever idiot said the new trucks only have 4.10 gears should be fired. After his head is surgically removed from his ass.

That comment was made back in 2015...

It was stupid back then too.

04Ram2500Hemi · Post by **04Ram2500Hemi** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:11 am

olyelr wrote:
DamageWagon wrote:Whatever idiot said the new trucks only have 4.10 gears should be fired. After his head is surgically removed from his ass.

That comment was made back in 2015...

He was also talking about the Power Wagon

TrashyOilfield · Post by **TrashyOilfield** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:15 am

From what I understand, you can call Dodge Off-road and they will build you whatever you want. And their long arms for the front AND rear will help maintain the articulation you expect. Maybe call their tech department and get some better answers as I've only chatted briefly with them and plan on doing their normal 3 inch kit.

rkgzx9leftcoast · Post by **rkgzx9leftcoast** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:08 am

Yeah, I have Thuren front coils and stock rears with a replacement Fox Shock. I thought I would want to retain factory towing/payload, but now that I am interested in going off-road more, I am thinking of switching to his rear springs, track-bar for sure, and Kings at some point. Carli kit is super nice, but they are proud of it, and have openly stated that the valving in their shocks is for the general condenses of softer highway ride and complimentary off road ride.

I almost went with DOR front springs/shocks, but Thuren came out with his Hemi coils right about that time. I think DOR stuff might be pretty good, I am still thinking of trying his new arms for the front. His rear arms look pretty cool as well. I think if you tow the spring rates from the aftermarket would be so close to stock for that type of spring that it doesn't warrant them making a new spring...if that makes sense, as most will say they are switching out for a softer every day ride.

Carli tells the diesel guys to use air bags, helpers, ect for towing, and they seem to make it sound like some of the options are easy swap out ?? I understand your frustration, but I would strongly suggest installing Thuren 1.5 Inch front kit and going from there. His quality is second to none!!!! I have 37s on mine and a lot of it is air pressure truthfully, I dont think you can get away from the fact that we are in a 3/4 ton truck....

rkgzx9leftcoast · Post by **rkgzx9leftcoast** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:11 am

Also just FYI, with his front springs and stock rear after some driving the rear is 3/4 of and inch taller with stock springs...

Z's2016PW · Post by **Z's2016PW** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:10 pm

rkgzx9leftcoast wrote:Yeah, I have Thuren front coils and stock rears with a replacement Fox Shock. I thought I would want to retain factory towing/payload, but now that I am interested in going off-road more, I am thinking of switching to his rear springs, track-bar for sure, and Kings at some point. Carli kit is super nice, but they are proud of it, and have openly stated that the valving in their shocks is for the general condenses of softer highway ride and complimentary off road ride.

I almost went with DOR front springs/shocks, but Thuren came out with his Hemi coils right about that time. I think DOR stuff might be pretty good, I am still thinking of trying his new arms for the front. His rear arms look pretty cool as well. I think if you tow the spring rates from the aftermarket would be so close to stock for that type of spring that it doesn't warrant them making a new spring...if that makes sense, as most will say they are switching out for a softer every day ride.

Carli tells the diesel guys to use air bags, helpers, ect for towing, and they seem to make it sound like some of the options are easy swap out ?? I understand your frustration, but I would strongly suggest installing Thuren 1.5 Inch front kit and going from there. His quality is second to none!!!! I have 37s on mine and a lot of it is air pressure truthfully, I dont think you can get away from the fact that we are in a 3/4 ton truck....

On Carli's site it states that their rear Springs will maintain the factory payload. Thuren's site says that you will need air bags if you tow or haul a lot.

Post by **Pit Slave** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:46 pm

Yeah, I smoked 'em, sometimes you just gotta #sendit

Post by **DamageWagon** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:08 pm

Pit Slave wrote:

Yeah, I smoked 'em, sometimes you just gotta #sendit

What a dick

RustyPW · Post by **RustyPW** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:53 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Pit Slave wrote:

Yeah, I smoked 'em, sometimes you just gotta #sendit
What a dick

Post by **Pit Slave** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:14 pm

lol

Yeah, I smoked 'em, sometimes you just gotta #sendit

yellowranger1 · Post by **yellowranger1** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:42 pm

Has anyone considered contacting a company like Deaver Spring directly? They built me a couple of custom long travel leaf packs in the past and I've spoken to them about coils for my bronco. They (and other full spring shops) can definitely build you a spring to suit your needs Mike. Just depends if they would want the truck in person to get accurate weights or to measure oem springs/rates for comparison. Hell, I could pull a spring out of mine and take it to deaver if it came down to it, they're about an hour from me.

- the above being for the rear since it seems like that's the sticking point here.

Post by **DamageWagon** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:31 pm

Jeff (owner of Deaver) told me they do nothing with coil springs but send them out to a company in Tennessee I think he said. Their is a lot more to coil springs, like extended and compressed lengths, spring diameter, spring rate, so that the springs do not bind before bottoming and do not pop out before full droop is accomplished. There is way more work than most companies are really willing to do, even though it isn't that much. And after Jeff screwed up my custom springs at Deaver in almost every way possible, I would never go back to Deaver again. Literally, almost every feature was wrong. That guy is riding out his companies name and might sell the company off before his kid inherits it (his words to me). The spring company by Thuren might be good to check out since they make Thurens springs. Could probably get a good high-load set designed.

gtomike60 · Post by **gtomike60** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:33 pm

yellowranger1 wrote:Has anyone considered contacting a company like Deaver Spring directly? They built me a couple of custom long travel leaf packs in the past and I've spoken to them about coils for my bronco. They (and other full spring shops) can definitely build you a spring to suit your needs Mike. Just depends if they would want the truck in person to get accurate weights or to measure oem springs/rates for comparison. Hell, I could pull a spring out of mine and take it to deaver if it came down to it, they're about an hour from me.

- the above being for the rear since it seems like that's the sticking point here.

I'm fairly certain Mike's truck has rear coils,hence the lack of options

coder · Post by **coder** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:59 am

On my 3Gen I did the Carli kit in pieces over time you can start by just buying the shocks and go from there it took me several years but the shocks alone make a huge difference. It is not a "lift" it's an entire performance suspension system, in an off road vehicle suspension is everything.

YouTube · Post by **OffroadTreks** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:29 am

coder wrote:On my 3Gen I did the Carli kit in pieces over time you can start by just buying the shocks and go from there it took me several years but the shocks alone make a huge difference. It is not a "lift" it's an entire performance suspension system, in an off road vehicle suspension is everything.

If I wanted I could buy it right now. I don't think the value is worth the price for Carli's kit. I kind of bemoan like this in a bunch of places. In my bumper thread, I complained that the new upstarts can't offer the same level of value as a company like ARB and expect to charge ARB prices. That's just my opinion.

Thurens kit seems more suitably priced. Don was FAST to reply to emails and answer questions. He has a detailed site explaining everything that is in his kit, what it does, etc. Seems like the value is really there with Thuren.

Don't doubt that Calri knows there stuff and is a reputable shop. But I'll argue that Thurens prices are fair market for what your getting an Calri is riding their "brand" a little bit more to squeeze maximum profit out of all the diesel bro's who keep getting their kits.

It's not me complaining that I can't afford their kit. I don't think it suits my needs or offers real value for it's cost. I'm mostly basing this off my other vehicle experience, so it's a subjective discussion.

Me, BSing.

Whats new.

Bill2014 · Post by **Bill2014** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:01 am

I'm not surprised that there aren't many "kits" for the '14+ trucks. We can already fit 37's without any appreciable rubbing with minor front pinch weld grinding and liner reforming. Maybe add some front spacers to give some of xtra wheel well clearance. All this for around $100. So that's 2" of additional clearance all around, without spending $$$$ on a "kit". The percentage of owners that "need" to lift beyond that is minuscule....

The value proposition just isn't there...

coder · Post by **coder** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:48 pm

Hello MikeKey,

Here's my perspective, I don't purchase performance products for my vehicle based solely on value. I buy them based on design, quality, fit for purpose and my own experience using them. Carli and Thurens products are similar but very different in some key areas.

Thuren is a fabrication shop he makes parts that are reusable in a variety of applications all his components are designed for diesels, some can be used on gas trucks but weren't specifically designed for them. Thuren's prices are a little lower because he's a one man shop. Thuren's components often to appeal to the fabrication oriented truck owner.

Carli designs complete systems with add-on components, these systems undergo significant R&D to work in a very intentional way, the Hemi kits have unique specs/components designed for gas trucks the same goes for the diesels, when a kit says PW is was design for a PW. Carli's systems appeal to someone who wants a fit for purpose ready to install system. As far as Carli trying "squeeze maximum profit" their pricing haven't risen $1 in the 10 years since I got my PW so I doubt that's the case.

I hope you find what works best for you, good luck!

Reloaderguy · Post by **Reloaderguy** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:40 pm

coder wrote:when a kit says PW is was design for a PW.

Sure looks like Carli just swapped hemi coils into their existing diesel kits. At least from their part numbers and instructions, there is no difference other than springs. The PW springs have the same part number as the hemi springs. I haven't spent any time looking at older years so maybe Carli used to make PW specific parts.

Post by **DamageWagon** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:44 pm

Power wagons, Hemis and diesels are the exact same truck... I don't get why there is such a big deal in there being a distinction. Spring rate, swaybar, trackbars. Those are the only effective differences in terms of suspension.

Post by **Pit Slave** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:24 am

Yeah, I smoked 'em, sometimes you just gotta #sendit

coder · Post by **coder** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:54 am

Shock valving, spring rates and making them work together in a particular way is what makes the suspension perform, add to that the designers opinion on what makes a good suspension feel, Don Thuren and Sage Carli are definitely different here, the other hard parts aren't that different.

RustyPW · Post by **RustyPW** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:16 am

There is other things that come into play when working with suspensions. Like spring rate frequency. Which can't be too different from front and rear. The shock valving has to match the spring rate. This is some of the stuff I learned when I got my JRZ 3 way coilovers for my Nismo. If I change the spring rate by 500kg. I have to have the coilovers revalved. Stuff to think about.

Post by **DamageWagon** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:33 am

I'm making a different point. Carli makes two spring rates. One Hemi one cummins. Thuren makes one spring rate (unless he released a Hemi set for the new trucks?). We come in and say "hey I want power wagon specific springs and valving." Why? Are we that special? We have a gas engine with a winch, so we are basically half way between the two trucks as far as front end weight. Assuming you use his springs, the shock valving isn't that different front the diesel trucks, which is what they base their suspensions on. For either axle if we keep our springs, Thuren can give custom valving for you, or you can drop a stage from the diesel chart, or for Carli you can kick, beg and scream and maybe get custom valving from them too.

I still don't know what the fuss is?

RustyPW · Post by **RustyPW** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:19 am

I know at one time. The factory had 27 different front spring combinations for a 3G PW. It was based on RC, QC, stick, auto, option combinations. With the aftermarket. They pick one range and try to make it fit all. I know what you are getting at. Carli makes 2 springs. Hemi and diesel. Thuren makes 1. Is it a heavy Hemi, or a soft diesel? Because he uses it for both. Carli used to have Bilstien 7100's with Hemi valving. I have a set on my PW now. They dropped it. Why? Was it because of low sales? My point is that they only make stuff that they think will sale. They don't really want to put R&D into the PW because it is a niche truck. Just like us.

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