Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Stickman · Post by **Stickman** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:06 pm

Yet another reason why I like my leaf springs

mystro · Post by **mystro** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:34 pm

For that matter a Taco or Rebel isn't the same animal off road as a PW. The comparison is useless. Why not compare a Jeep Renagade to a PW because it's more practice for suburban living. Like comparing a domestic house cat to a mountain lion. The PW is not a vehicle for those that have to ask if they can live with it. There is plenty of other watered down 4x4's for that.

When FLT did the Raptor vs PW, you could tell they wanted the Raptor to win just by their tone and comments. Then when the Raptor needed to be winched out, there wasn't much more they could say especially when the PW did the up hill course effortlessly. Then their screw up with the PW tow testing.

Reloaderguy · Post by **Reloaderguy** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:42 pm

Stickman wrote:Yet another reason why I like my leaf springs

I heard an interesting theory about why the rear feels like it floats or steps out under compression. I was thinking it was the track bar angle (still do to some degree) but shock valving and rubber bushings also play a part. The extra weight seems to exaggerate the problem. I am thinking about a Carli track bar drop, possibly a new rear track bar.

Snowsled · Post by **Snowsled** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:27 am

mystro wrote:For that matter a Taco or Rebel isn't the same animal off road as a PW. The comparison is useless. Why not compare a Jeep Renagade to a PW because it's more practice for suburban living. Like comparing a domestic house cat to a mountain lion. The PW is not a vehicle for those that have to ask if they can live with it. There is plenty of other watered down 4x4's for that.

When FLT did the Raptor vs PW, you could tell they wanted the Raptor to win just by their tone and comments. Then when the Raptor needed to be winched out, there wasn't much more they could say especially when the PW did the up hill course effortlessly. Then their screw up with the PW tow testing.

Man, you have really bought into the hype! If he electronics didn't intervene on a regular basis you may have been correct. As it sits, my old 3rd gen 2500 4x4 non PW would go the same places, and stay in the gear I selected because it was offered with a real transmission, not the autotragic garbage in my PW. Best of the current crop unfortunately is a sad diatribe these days. I have seen Tacomas do some pretty impressive things. The TRD versions come with rear lockers and are pretty capable little rigs, also still sold with a real transmission. I wish the PW was as capable as all you guys claim, then I wouldn't be so set on dumping the damn thing as soon as I can afford the $5000 hit.

Will · Post by **Will** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:34 am

Damn a Tacoma, had one, was a peice of shit. Transmission quit at 35k miles. Yes it would pull but wouldn't stop.

mystro · Post by **mystro** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:19 am

Hype?? What other truck can do what a PW does off road? Every 4x4 rag since the PW was reintroduced states that the PW is in its own class in off road performance. That's not hype, that's pretty much an accepted fact even from the haters that own other brands. FourWheeler mag had the PW trounce the Taco Pro (and all others) when they did compare it in the same arena.

FOURWHEELER "The Power Wagon easily won this year’s competition,...." 'Quite simply, the Power Wagon ruled all off-road terrain. It effortlessly navigated everything we threw at it. No obstacle fazed it."...etc”
“There’s virtually no obstacle that can stop this beast.”
-“This truck represents exactly what a truck should be. Something that can haul, tow, and wheel through any terrain or obstacle imaginable.”
“The 2015 Ram Power Wagon is simply everything you want a real pickup to be,” said Christian Hazel, editor of Four Wheeler. “The Ram Power Wagon didn’t just win Four Wheeler’s 2015 Pickup Truck of the Year, it blew the competition away.”

I am rather educated with trucks, owning more than I care to mention and with a lot of off road experience. The PW is everything I believe it to be by way of delivering on its performance. Perhaps your truck may be a lemon? Life is to short to drive something you don't love. $5k isn't even a set of wheels and tires for a off road rig. Dump it and buy something that makes you happy. You think a Toyota will do what a PW will, go for it. The latest reviews I see the Tacoma going against is the Honda Ridgeline.

Man, you have really bought into the hype! If he electronics didn't intervene on a regular basis you may have been correct. As it sits, my old 3rd gen 2500 4x4 non PW would go the same places, and stay in the gear I selected because it was offered with a real transmission, not the autotragic garbage in my PW. Best of the current crop unfortunately is a sad diatribe these days. I have seen Tacomas do some pretty impressive things. The TRD versions come with rear lockers and are pretty capable little rigs, also still sold with a real transmission. I wish the PW was as capable as all you guys claim, then I wouldn't be so set on dumping the damn thing as soon as I can afford the $5000 hit.

04Ram2500Hemi · Post by **04Ram2500Hemi** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:57 am

Snowsled wrote:
mystro wrote:For that matter a Taco or Rebel isn't the same animal off road as a PW. The comparison is useless. Why not compare a Jeep Renagade to a PW because it's more practice for suburban living. Like comparing a domestic house cat to a mountain lion. The PW is not a vehicle for those that have to ask if they can live with it. There is plenty of other watered down 4x4's for that.

When FLT did the Raptor vs PW, you could tell they wanted the Raptor to win just by their tone and comments. Then when the Raptor needed to be winched out, there wasn't much more they could say especially when the PW did the up hill course effortlessly. Then their screw up with the PW tow testing.

Man, you have really bought into the hype! If he electronics didn't intervene on a regular basis you may have been correct. As it sits, my old 3rd gen 2500 4x4 non PW would go the same places, and stay in the gear I selected because it was offered with a real transmission, not the autotragic garbage in my PW. Best of the current crop unfortunately is a sad diatribe these days. I have seen Tacomas do some pretty impressive things. The TRD versions come with rear lockers and are pretty capable little rigs, also still sold with a real transmission. I wish the PW was as capable as all you guys claim, then I wouldn't be so set on dumping the damn thing as soon as I can afford the $5000 hit.

Holy Shit Snow- you're still here?

Look man, we get it. You hate the electronic nannies of the Power Wagon. Truth be told, most of us do too. I've read most of your rants, and I get it, you feel like your truck doesn't deliver as you had hoped. Honestly, I think you would be best served with a solid axel 3/4 truck with ARB lockers and a standard transmission. As far as I know, you'll have to go CTD to get that (I don't think Ford offers a standard transmission, and Chevy has an independent front end and I believe is automatic only as well). I truly wish you didn't feel like you have been bent over by Ram with no lube, but I think it's time to quit pissing on everybody else's parade. I honestly hope you find a truck you're happy with, but I think it's time you just leave the forum and go on your merry way. Good luck with your next truck man, I hope it makes you happy.

dodgeman324 · Post by **dodgeman324** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:53 pm

I am with many people here, I love my PW's, they suit me perfectly and go where I want to go, and have the capabilities and skills I like. Even though I have only my 2005 and had a 2007, and didn't have the newer ones with more computer nannies, from what I know, they can all be bypassed if you don't like them. My 07 had the locker bypass, my current 05 I hard-wired and got the manual sway disconnect from EVO, so no nannies that bother me. To even exclude that portion, my engines have been strong, with zero problems, no issues from my trannies, and just is a great truck. I like it even more because it is unique, and not many out there. It gives me a special smile when I can truly say, there is no other truck exactly like mine in the world (based on my mods, accessories, and the overall uniqueness of a PW). These trucks are awesome, but yes, only for certain types of people. I have owned a total of about 15-20 Dodge related vehicles in my 19 years of driving age, and not one has failed me. The few Ford's, failed miserably.

Wirebrush · Post by **Wirebrush** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:47 pm

olyelr wrote:
Wirebrush wrote:The Power Wagon is really only a half ton. The Tacoma has a greater rated payload. Which is fine with me....
Half ton? Not quite. Just cause the payload rating is pathetic (for a 3/4 ton truck) dosnt mean its a half ton. I guess it depends on how you look at things... In my mind it is a truck with 1 ton frame/drive train with a soft flexible suspension with a payload rating of less than most half ton trucks. But its far from a half ton truck.

And I would love to see a Tacoma try to haul a load that would max out a PW

Since a similarly equipped Ram 1500 has a greater rated payload capacity I think it's fair to say that "the PW is really only a half ton". As I said, I don't have any interest in the 1500s because I prefer the beefier drive train, suspension, steering, and braking components that you get on a 2500. Although stock the ground clearance is probably the same or less on the 2500, you can put 35-40 inch tires on a 2500 to gain clearance and traction without over stressing the above mentioned components as long as you aren't hauling heavy loads. Put big meats and/or lockers on a 1500 and you are asking for trouble in multiple ways.

nts007 · Post by **nts007** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:07 pm

There is no "similarly equipped" 1500. They don't have front solid axles. They don't have lockers. They don't have disconnecting swaybar they don't come stock with 33s they don't come with a winch they don't come with all the extra skid plating. I could go on and on and on. From a 100% mechanical standpoint the 'only' things that drop the powerwagons capacities from the standard 2500 is the softer rear springs AND the liability lawyer bullshit since the wagon is 2" taller. Swap in 2500 springs and your back to the same payload. There is no similarly equipped 1500.

Bill2014 · Post by **Bill2014** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:04 pm

nts007 wrote:There is no "similarly equipped" 1500. They don't have front solid axles. They don't have lockers. They don't have disconnecting swaybar they don't come stock with 33s they don't come with a winch they don't come with all the extra skid plating. I could go on and on and on. From a 100% mechanical standpoint the 'only' things that drop the powerwagons capacities from the standard 2500 is the softer rear springs AND the liability lawyer bullshit since the wagon is 2" taller. Swap in 2500 springs and your back to the same payload. There is no similarly equipped 1500.

EXACTLY!

TwinStick · Post by **TwinStick** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:01 pm

Is all this whining about ? You got a 3rd or 4th Gen PW & need more weight carrying capacity without the squat, you get these: https://www.amazon.com/Hellwig-3527-Lp- ... B001UFRV9M or a set of these: http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/suspensio ... -2500-3500 with these cradles: https://www.google.com/search?q=daystar ... CnMQsAQIMA

If you have the new independent rear suspension of the 5th Gen, get a set of these: http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php ... s_id=47320 or a set of Mopar rear coils for a reg 2500.

HD helper springs
Custom made HD rear leaf springs
Custom made HD rear coil springs
Air bags Timbren

Pick your poison. Stop your bitchin. I used the Hellwig Load Pro 35's. Put em on myself. Easy Peasy.

ramv · Post by **ramv** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:56 pm

Do the hellwitgs work with the daystar cradles?

Snowsled · Post by **Snowsled** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:51 am

mystro wrote:Hype?? What other truck can do what a PW does off road? Every 4x4 rag since the PW was reintroduced states that the PW is in its own class in off road performance. That's not hype, that's pretty much an accepted fact even from the haters that own other brands. FourWheeler mag had the PW trounce the Taco Pro (and all others) when they did compare it in the same arena.
FOURWHEELER "The Power Wagon easily won this year’s competition,...." 'Quite simply, the Power Wagon ruled all off-road terrain. It effortlessly navigated everything we threw at it. No obstacle fazed it."...etc”
“There’s virtually no obstacle that can stop this beast.”
-“This truck represents exactly what a truck should be. Something that can haul, tow, and wheel through any terrain or obstacle imaginable.”
“The 2015 Ram Power Wagon is simply everything you want a real pickup to be,” said Christian Hazel, editor of Four Wheeler. “The Ram Power Wagon didn’t just win Four Wheeler’s 2015 Pickup Truck of the Year, it blew the competition away.”
I am rather educated with trucks, owning more than I care to mention and with a lot of off road experience. The PW is everything I believe it to be by way of delivering on its performance. Perhaps your truck may be a lemon? Life is to short to drive something you don't love. $5k isn't even a set of wheels and tires for a off road rig. Dump it and buy something that makes you happy. You think a Toyota will do what a PW will, go for it. The latest reviews I see the Tacoma going against is the Honda Ridgeline.

Sounds like an invite to a measuring contest. Normally I would pass since it isn't really fair picking on a member who can not even spell his user name correctly LOL. Tell me how many trucks you have owned... This is Dodge/Ram number 8 for me along with several Fords and Chevies and enough other vehicles to bring the count well over 60 vehicles since I started driving 30+ years ago. I have organized at least a dozen off road adventures for groups in Mercedes Benz and Porsche clubs. I have taught basic off road skills at these events and they have all been in SW Colorado or Moab UT. I have been running off road vehicles with lockers for over two decades, the PW is FAR from my first rodeo.

Since you are clearly such a stud in your PW, how about you send me the $5k if it is so easy to come by. I actually had to work pretty hard to buy this truck and it is an epic fail. I will be unloading it as soon as I can. Until then, I laugh my butt off at guys like you who think you have found the holy grail. Clearly you haven't tried to push it at all, or just do not know how, otherwise you would know the problems I am talking about.

I should start a video series on PW fails... Maybe even this afternoon since I live close enough to the trails to be on them in minutes.

Low_Sky · Post by **Low_Sky** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:13 am

Snowsled, please give it a rest. Every regular on this forum knows that you hate your PW and have a bad case of buyer's remorse. Your complaints are well documented. A few months ago that seems like all we talked about on this forum.

Please put some videos on YouTube. I'd love to see some of these issues you're having. Post them all in a thread here so people can discuss them. With all of your off-road experience, you might be able to help some people who don't have the chance to wheel as hard as you do actually learn something about what the new PWs can and can't do. Seriously, if you have to keep coming back here and talking about this, I encourage you to do it, but in a way that adds value to the forum.

If you just want to gripe about your truck until your financial situation improves, I can save you the trouble of coming back by informing all new members on your behalf that some guy in Colorado thinks their truck is bullshit and to search "snowsled" to find out why.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

walc · Post by **walc** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:36 am

Low_Sky wrote: Please put some videos on YouTube. I'd love to see some of these issues you're having. Post them all in a thread here so people can discuss them. With all of your off-road experience, you might be able to help some people who don't have the chance to wheel as hard as you do actually learn something about what the new PWs can and can't do. Seriously, if you have to keep coming back here and talking about this, I encourage you to do it, but in a way that adds value to the forum.

^ That would be very beneficial.

ramv · Post by **ramv** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:44 am

Snowsled, That's a weird comment, really. I mean, it's a big, heavy one ton truck with soft springs, ok shocks and lockers. How did you expect it to perform and how is it not? Personally I bought it for the hidden winch and lockers, and decent OE tires. So far it's been as good or better than expected. (Actually ride and disconnecting sway bar are better than I imagined!) Will I take it on Pritchett Canyon next time I am in Moab? Doubt it, but if I am out exploring, I won't be afraid to try a muddy or rocky two track. I am just jealous you live minutes away from the trail!

Reloaderguy · Post by **Reloaderguy** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:54 am

I find the "half ton" comments amusing. Simple numbers for simple people, as they say.

TruckBoatTruck · Post by **TruckBoatTruck** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:59 pm

Sled dude your like listening to a chick that just went to the hair dresser and didn't like how it came out. We get it man, your truck is evil and doesn't listen to you, just like us. Go and get yourself a Unimog and just end this already.

I can't wait to watch these videos honestly, hopefully the trucks "crazy" transmission just keeps driving up one of your obstacles and flips your truck so you can finally end this hell your living in and make insurance get you another truck.

TheDirtRoad · Post by **TheDirtRoad** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:36 pm

Damn Snowsled you like to get this forum wound up. I too would love to see videos. If you have owned over 60 vehicles in 30+ years of driving it sounds to me that no vehicle makes you happy. And you have been running vehicles with lockers for over 2 decades how many of them were "FACTORY" ? The PW is the most capable "Factory" "off road" truck. You complain that is a piece of shit but you have yet to tell us with all of your experience what is the best "Factory" "off road" truck. Does it carry a heavy load? It can but that isn't what it was designed for. Does it haul extremely heavy loads? It can but that isn't what it was designed for. We leave that to the Diesel boys to argue about. Does it haul ass across the desert ( well it can ) but that is for the Raptor boys. That isn't what it was designed for. Since you are the only smart one on this forum please educate all of us that wasted $1000.00's of dollars on the most capable "Factory" "off road truck" so we can sell ours also and get one better. I would tell you how the PW outshines all other "factory" trucks in the country I use mine in but I feel that would be a waste of time. By the way I am only 7 minutes from trails.

ramv · Post by **ramv** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:35 pm

TheDirtRoad wrote: By the way I am only 7 minutes from trails.

I still miss Sweetwater County!

olyelr · Post by **olyelr** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:07 am

Im not so sure, but I think everybody bitchin about snowsled bitchin is almost worse then snowsled bitchin

I enjoy reading most of his pokes towards the truck because they seem to be real issues that he is experiencing. Possibly ones I may experience. Issues I may have with my PW. I like to hear the bad with the good, too.

I would like to see some video footage, though

adeluca73 · Post by **adeluca73** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:28 am

Hmm--I'll refrain from further measuring... Ugh

But I promise this, I know for F'ng sure Snowsled hasn't been in the middle of the bush & Muskegg, 100's of miles from anyone, no roads for 100's of miles, no cell service, in Grizz country, with only the gear in back to save your sorry ass life, aside from the emergency GPS beacon in case your up shit creek. I wouldn't trust any other vehicle aside from a heavily modded Can-Am Outlander Max XT. But I don't live "minutes" from a cushy urban hippie suburb to a well travelled trail littered with Subarus & jeeps, so whatever.

Wirebrush · Post by **Wirebrush** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:37 am

Reloaderguy wrote:I find the "half ton" comments amusing. Simple numbers for simple people, as they say.

You guys are completely missing the point, and your response is to belittle me? What a great place this is

I pointed out the fact that the PW is really only a half ton in response to the previous poster who said if they made a half ton Power Wagon he would buy it.

My point was that I don't understand why anyone would want a 1500 version of a Power Wagon with weak drivetrain, brakes, steering components, etc.

It is a fact that the Tacoma and the Ram 1500 have greater payload capacities. No need to get your panties in a bunch over it. It doesn't bother me in the least, in fact I like it, because I don't like having the harsh ride and poor articulation that comes with typical 3/4 ton payload capacities as I stated before, but was not included in the quote.

Z's2016PW · Post by **Z's2016PW** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:41 am

Back to the sibling rivalries. IMHO the PW is a jack of all trades. The same cannot be said of the Rebel. It needs to get a rear locker. At a minimum it needs an LSD in the IFS pumpkin since Ram will never put a solid axle on the front of a half ton again. The bumper needs to be revised to accept a winch. Once done the Rebel won't have much of a payload with the extra weight added on. At least the PW can add some different springs to regain payload if necessary. The air springs on the Rebel would make that a lot harder. Ram would have to recalibrate them to regain the lost payload. That said it still would not be close to the 3000 pounds that the PW could have. Gearing is another issue. Scrap the 3.55's and 3.92's. Put in some 4.10's and watch the mileage drop in the Rebel. Even if Ram did all of that the Rebel would need to have a 6 inch lift to be as tall as the PW and to have similar ground clearance. All of these modifications would make the Rebel more expensive than a PW. Worth it? Not in my book.

Zane

Power Wagon Registry

Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

Re: Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???