Stock 2016 Power Wagon w/ 37" Tires

[djgaston]

Ha, okay. I'll edit my previous post. I wasn't trying to sell anything. If you had ever talked to me, you'd know that. I was just trying to help.

[SPLICEMAN]

This is to all of you, I am trying to figure out how these radius arms are supposed to work. It seems that the spring perch's are only going to be perfectly aligned vertically and horizontally at one point in the total travel of the suspension. I'm thinking that when the spring is under its smallest load (ride height) would be where the alignment of the spring perches would matter least, but when the tire is tucked all the way up under the fender, and the spring is under its largest load would be where you would want those perches to be perfectly aligned. If you had them aligned at ride height, they would not be aligned at full load. I think the engineers got it right when they were designing this suspension, but I am not an engineer, and I'm not a full time mechanic either. Does anybody have anything to add on this? I am just applying common sense to this issue. I have a PW on order, and I was looking forward to some 37's myself, and I thank reloaderguy for taking the leap and posting the details along the way.

[Will]

This is to all of you, I am trying to figure out how these radius arms are supposed to work. It seems that the spring perch's are only going to be perfectly aligned vertically and horizontally at one point in the total travel of the suspension. I'm thinking that when the spring is under its smallest load (ride height) would be where the alignment of the spring perches would matter least, but when the tire is tucked all the way up under the fender, and the spring is under its largest load would be where you would want those perches to be perfectly aligned. If you had them aligned at ride height, they would not be aligned at full load. I think the engineers got it right when they were designing this suspension, but I am not an engineer, and I'm not a full time mechanic either. Does anybody have anything to add on this? I am just applying common sense to this issue. I have a PW on order, and I was looking forward to some 37's myself, and I thank reloaderguy for taking the leap and posting the details along the way.

I understand your thinking, I believe there is way too much angle on teh bottom perch for it ever to line up before it bottoms out on the bump stop. I've looked at Reloaderguys pictures a dozen times and cannot figure out how the caster stays true with the pivoting upper control arms on the radius arm. Then djgaston posted a picture that has a completely different radius arm that looks solid. Maybe Reloaderguy can get a couple of pictures with it fully flexed to see both sides compressed a drooped?

[Bill2014]

...
Maybe Reloaderguy can get a couple of pictures with it fully flexed to see both sides compressed a drooped?

That's a lot to ask - the tires are in the way of getting the best shots - and it's harder to flex w/o the tires.

[Will]

Can turn the wheel...may not be exact angle you want but should be able to see something.

[adeluca73]

Easiest way is to drive one tire up a loading dock ramp or use a forklift to raise one front tire incrementally, then you'll get pics at all the spring positions from zero to the height where the tire is hitting the liner.

[Reloaderguy]

Any of the guys with 2014+ Power Wagons can get flex pictures. Honestly I don't care that much, we're three model years into this suspension and there are functionally zero complaints about the factory PW springs and radius arms. I doubt I'll have the factory springs in a year anyway. I'm eventually going to start a build thread, I just wanted to post pictures of fitting 37's because I see it discussed frequently with very little information. The springs were just something I thought was interesting because, again, there aren't many pictures online.

A couple of people asked so I'll take some pictures this weekend of side profiles of the tires and how far they stick out. They do stick out a little, maybe an inch or so.

[Reloaderguy]

This is to all of you, I am trying to figure out how these radius arms are supposed to work. It seems that the spring perch's are only going to be perfectly aligned vertically and horizontally at one point in the total travel of the suspension. I'm thinking that when the spring is under its smallest load (ride height) would be where the alignment of the spring perches would matter least, but when the tire is tucked all the way up under the fender, and the spring is under its largest load would be where you would want those perches to be perfectly aligned. If you had them aligned at ride height, they would not be aligned at full load. I think the engineers got it right when they were designing this suspension, but I am not an engineer, and I'm not a full time mechanic either. Does anybody have anything to add on this? I am just applying common sense to this issue. I have a PW on order, and I was looking forward to some 37's myself, and I thank reloaderguy for taking the leap and posting the details along the way.

I understand your thinking, I believe there is way too much angle on teh bottom perch for it ever to line up before it bottoms out on the bump stop. I've looked at Reloaderguys pictures a dozen times and cannot figure out how the caster stays true with the pivoting upper control arms on the radius arm. Then djgaston posted a picture that has a completely different radius arm that looks solid. Maybe Reloaderguy can get a couple of pictures with it fully flexed to see both sides compressed a drooped?

Danny's picture is from a regular diesel/gas radius arm, the PW radius arm has a link instead of a boxed union. The old Rubicon Express radius arms on my TJ had something very similar. If someone were half smart they'd just make replacement links and bushings for the PW radius arm. It could correct flex and caster without having to produce an entire radius arm. I think there is limited utility in making an entire replacement radius arm given how little lift these trucks need and how well they work completely stock. This isn't a short arm, the angles are better and clearance is good to begin with.

[RustyPW]

You guys are missing the caster part on the 3 link 4G's suspension. With a radius arm set-up. The caster changes all the time. As the arm moves up and down. The caster changes. Move the arm up, it goes positive. Move it down, it goes negative. On the 5 link 3G's. The caster doesn't move as much because the 4 control arms regulate the movement better.

[Reloaderguy]

You don't drive around with the suspension bottomed out or fully drooped. The steering and pinion angles change minimally in the operating range around static ride height. This was hashed out 15 years ago with Jeeps. Besides, with unequal length control arms what makes you think caster and pinion angle doesn't change with the short arm suspension?

[nts007]

No we understand how the 5 link works very well. It provides a greatly reduced caster change throughout its cycle. At full droop or full compression. The problem in seeing is some Ford engineers musta been picked up cheap by Chrysler and they pretended this was a new suspension design. The coil bucket should be nearly parallel top and bottom within its static and main operating area +\- 3". What this looks like is a Ford front end that's been blocked 4-5" from stock height. I do not buy in any way this swing arm is a better system in the front in any way. Works great in a rear setup. With coilovers. This has to be a design oversight. I can easily see a coil popping out at full droop on one side and max compression on the other. I also strongly believe that the coil like that is part of the cause of the front wheel hop that the new trucks are experiencing. I juat feel that Chrysler could have done a better job with this design. It might work fine for 90% of the regular 2500s and 3500s who never do the kind of off roading the powerwagon is capable of. But for the pw setup they dropped the ball. Especially with all the research done for all the aftermarket companies have done to fix that exact issue for 4-8" lifts.

[Reloaderguy]

If you think the suspension is bad, you should see the leather seats...they blow a cool breeze on my balls. What a terrible predicament I'm in. God damn it, Ford f@cked me again!

[nts007]

Hahahaha. First world problems. It's terrible. But seriously that's terrible. Since Buick has had cooled seats in a domestic since before 2005. Dodge is so far behind the old peoples cars. And they ride better too lol

[14PowerWaggy]

Any of the guys with 2014+ Power Wagons can get flex pictures. Honestly I don't care that much, we're three model years into this suspension and there are functionally zero complaints about the factory PW springs and radius arms. I doubt I'll have the factory springs in a year anyway. I'm eventually going to start a build thread, I just wanted to post pictures of fitting 37's because I see it discussed frequently with very little information. The springs were just something I thought was interesting because, again, there aren't many pictures online.

A couple of people asked so I'll take some pictures this weekend of side profiles of the tires and how far they stick out. They do stick out a little, maybe an inch or so.

Someone asked me for these pics shortly after I put 37's on my 15 Wagon (back in June 2015)... I've basically got the same set up as Reloaderguy... They don't stick out very far...

[thuren]

You guys are missing the caster part on the 3 link 4G's suspension. With a radius arm set-up. The caster changes all the time. As the arm moves up and down. The caster changes. Move the arm up, it goes positive. Move it down, it goes negative. On the 5 link 3G's. The caster doesn't move as much because the 4 control arms regulate the movement better.

If the 3g/4g Rams had a respectable design 4 link that would be the case, but with the arm lengths and pivot positions, the caster change is actually a TON on the 3g/4g platform. Conservative educated guess here.... With a normal 3" lift, 10" travel, and about 4* caster ride height on the 3g/4g platform........ Suspension bottomed out, the caster is probably close to 2.5*, and the same truck at full droop is probably close to 6.0*.

[Reloaderguy]

Any of the guys with 2014+ Power Wagons can get flex pictures. Honestly I don't care that much, we're three model years into this suspension and there are functionally zero complaints about the factory PW springs and radius arms. I doubt I'll have the factory springs in a year anyway. I'm eventually going to start a build thread, I just wanted to post pictures of fitting 37's because I see it discussed frequently with very little information. The springs were just something I thought was interesting because, again, there aren't many pictures online.

A couple of people asked so I'll take some pictures this weekend of side profiles of the tires and how far they stick out. They do stick out a little, maybe an inch or so.

Someone asked me for these pics shortly after I put 37's on my 15 Wagon (back in June 2015)... I've basically got the same set up as Reloaderguy... They don't stick out very far...

You sir, have great taste!

[Reloaderguy]

You guys are missing the caster part on the 3 link 4G's suspension. With a radius arm set-up. The caster changes all the time. As the arm moves up and down. The caster changes. Move the arm up, it goes positive. Move it down, it goes negative. On the 5 link 3G's. The caster doesn't move as much because the 4 control arms regulate the movement better.

If the 3g/4g Rams had a respectable design 4 link that would be the case, but with the arm lengths and pivot positions, the caster change is actually a TON on the 3g/4g platform. Conservative educated guess here.... With a normal 3" lift, 10" travel, and about 4* caster ride height on the 3g/4g platform........ Suspension bottomed out, the caster is probably close to 2.5*, and the same truck at full droop is probably close to 6.0*.

The Jeep TJ had the same problem when it came out in '97. The solution was to cut off the short arm mounts and run aftermarket long radius arms. With the new Ram longer radius arm suspension I'd put money on less pinion angle change than the old short arm suspension.

[Will]

You guys are missing the caster part on the 3 link 4G's suspension. With a radius arm set-up. The caster changes all the time. As the arm moves up and down. The caster changes. Move the arm up, it goes positive. Move it down, it goes negative. On the 5 link 3G's. The caster doesn't move as much because the 4 control arms regulate the movement better.

If the 3g/4g Rams had a respectable design 4 link that would be the case, but with the arm lengths and pivot positions, the caster change is actually a TON on the 3g/4g platform. Conservative educated guess here.... With a normal 3" lift, 10" travel, and about 4* caster ride height on the 3g/4g platform........ Suspension bottomed out, the caster is probably close to 2.5*, and the same truck at full droop is probably close to 6.0*.

The Jeep TJ had the same problem when it came out in '97. The solution was to cut off the short arm mounts and run aftermarket long radius arms. With the new Ram longer radius arm suspension I'd put money on less pinion angle change than the old short arm suspension.

Larger radius

[israelstanage]

Nowhere near full flex. Just happened to pass a ditch today. Third pick is sitting in my driveway.

[NickTF]

Any of the guys with 2014+ Power Wagons can get flex pictures. Honestly I don't care that much, we're three model years into this suspension and there are functionally zero complaints about the factory PW springs and radius arms. I doubt I'll have the factory springs in a year anyway. I'm eventually going to start a build thread, I just wanted to post pictures of fitting 37's because I see it discussed frequently with very little information. The springs were just something I thought was interesting because, again, there aren't many pictures online.

A couple of people asked so I'll take some pictures this weekend of side profiles of the tires and how far they stick out. They do stick out a little, maybe an inch or so.

Someone asked me for these pics shortly after I put 37's on my 15 Wagon (back in June 2015)... I've basically got the same set up as Reloaderguy... They don't stick out very far...

Thank you, I believe you posted a reply or two long ago on what needs to be done to fit the 37" tires on 14+ trucks. I've scanned through quite a few threads looking and can't recall if it was you or not. Regardless, thanks for the pics. Wow, the factory wheel and tire really do have a ton of positive offset. That looks great!!!

[14PowerWaggy]

Any of the guys with 2014+ Power Wagons can get flex pictures. Honestly I don't care that much, we're three model years into this suspension and there are functionally zero complaints about the factory PW springs and radius arms. I doubt I'll have the factory springs in a year anyway. I'm eventually going to start a build thread, I just wanted to post pictures of fitting 37's because I see it discussed frequently with very little information. The springs were just something I thought was interesting because, again, there aren't many pictures online.

A couple of people asked so I'll take some pictures this weekend of side profiles of the tires and how far they stick out. They do stick out a little, maybe an inch or so.

Someone asked me for these pics shortly after I put 37's on my 15 Wagon (back in June 2015)... I've basically got the same set up as Reloaderguy... They don't stick out very far...

You sir, have great taste!

Your truck looks great! Really like that color...

[Reloaderguy]

Side profile pictures. The perspective isn't quite the same side to side but you can see the truck needs an adjustable track bar in the front, maybe a Carli drop in the rear.









Here is what the trimming looks like. Both sides are the same. When I get some time I'll use the heatgun and flatten out the plastic fender liner channel. At some point I'll probably apply paint on bed liner to the inside bottom of the wheel wells. The pinchweld metal looks a little ragged in the picture but it is the black RTV I sealed it with. The metal is actually very smooth.

[olyelr]

The spring looks decent at compression. I just cant believe what they look like at ride height. Almost ridiculous.

[Hunter87]

The other thread drifted off course so I'm putting this in a new thread.

Here is my stock 2016 Power Wagon with 37X12.50X17 Toyo RT on KMC XD128 17X9 +18mm offset. I trimmed the hump off of the fender flare, pulled out the wheel well liner and trimmed the bottom hump, and then cut 3"X.5" strip out of the pinch weld. I used a heat gun to shape the lower back of the wheel well liner. I shot the exposed metal with flat black primer and filled the gaps with black RTV. There is ZERO rub on flat ground and looks like there could be a little under full flex while turned 3/4 to lock. The truck could use another 1" to 1.5" of lift in the front but only to achieve a level stance, my driveway slopes down to the front of the truck in the picture..



Here is what the stock springs look like with the axle sitting on jack stands.

Driver's Side


Passenger Side

Man your truck looks awesome with those tires stuffed under the stock height.

[olyelr]

Man your truck looks awesome with those tires stuffed under the stock height.

AGREED