Duratracs have to go, need options.

Rodeoflyer · Post by **Rodeoflyer** » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:04 pm

Colibri wrote:Just one mans opinion here, but our trucks are heavy enough that sidewall flex on an E range tire is not a problem at all. I'm on toyo mt's in 37x13.50r17 and aired down just a little bit from my street pressure they conform very nicely to the terrain. Lighter weight tires are certainly easier on gas and components but I have a hard time trusting them from a death wobble and reliability perspective. Also if you have to contend with cactus mesquite or sharp rocks etc. the thicker sidewall is worth its weight in gold. My buddy has the ko2's on a Jeep and he speaks highly of them but I wouldn't put them on a 2500

No joke, this is what tasajillo cactus does to a new duratrac with 2 ply sidewalls. Had three of these. Keeping this beast on the senderos is difficult

. Hopefully the 3 ply armortek coopers won't have this problem next season.

agpilot · Post by **agpilot** » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:05 pm

That looks gnarly. I guess I'm back to square one again - I'll probably end up going with the Toyo R/T in 37x12.5R17 because it's 3-ply even though it's D-rated. There isn't an E rated 37 R/T only M/T. The anecdotal evidence the past few posts have made confirm what I've read elsewhere - the KO2 is probably not a heavy duty enough tire for this truck. I know there are a few guys on this board running it in 37" size which is what gave me the idea in the first place but I'm fairly sure I'll be happier with the Toyo.

Shaved Ice · Post by **Shaved Ice** » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:44 pm

The KO2 is available in size 315/70R17/E. This is the same type and size as the new Raptor but with a higher load range: Part Number 08806. It is 34.4" tall and 12.7" wide. It is also approved for our stock wheel width if 8 inches. This is probably the tire I will go with when the time comes.

Post by **Pit Slave** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:41 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Pit Slave wrote:What's this "sidewalk" squirm all about? Never seen one move around, not even the one in front of my parents house, and that's on a highway.

Yeah, I smoked 'em, sometimes you just gotta #sendit
If you start running a heavy truck like ours with a low load range, the sidewalk will definitely start to squirm. It just can't take it. Pedestrians, Rams, Load range C's... Horrible scenario. Squirmy.

Still confused what a pedestrian sidewalk has to do with tires....

Yeah, I smoked 'em, sometimes you just gotta #sendit

Post by **DamageWagon** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:56 pm

Pit Slave wrote:
DamageWagon wrote:
Pit Slave wrote:What's this "sidewalk" squirm all about? Never seen one move around, not even the one in front of my parents house, and that's on a highway.

Yeah, I smoked 'em, sometimes you just gotta #sendit
If you start running a heavy truck like ours with a low load range, the sidewalk will definitely start to squirm. It just can't take it. Pedestrians, Rams, Load range C's... Horrible scenario. Squirmy.
Still confused what a pedestrian sidewalk has to do with tires....

Yeah, I smoked 'em, sometimes you just gotta #sendit

Autocorrect thinks that when I say sidewall I mean sidewalk. I'm just playing along with its joke

Post by **Pit Slave** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:27 am

DamageWagon wrote:
Pit Slave wrote:
DamageWagon wrote: If you start running a heavy truck like ours with a low load range, the sidewalk will definitely start to squirm. It just can't take it. Pedestrians, Rams, Load range C's... Horrible scenario. Squirmy.
Still confused what a pedestrian sidewalk has to do with tires....

Yeah, I smoked 'em, sometimes you just gotta #sendit
Autocorrect thinks that when I say sidewall I mean sidewalk. I'm just playing along with its joke

Right on, same here! Just rolling with it.

Yeah, I smoked 'em, sometimes you just gotta #sendit

agpilot · Post by **agpilot** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:36 pm

OK so I'm about to pull the trigger on new tires in preparation for big trip out west to go wheeling in CO and UT (Moab).

Had 37x12.5R17 Toyo R/Ts all ready to click order. They look awesome and should give me good ground clearance and not *too* much rubbing with stock wheels and Thuren 1.5" overland front. Then I saw a few reports on various forums that they are not very sticky and struggled on slick rock Moab. Then I saw the thread where a guy totally trashes an F250 wearing R/Ts and I don't want to be that guy (though I think that's more operator error than equipment failure). And to be fair, I have gotten pretty the stock duratracs pretty gummed up. I'm worried that the R/T is the tire for those who want to look badass (who doesn't) but aren't that good when the rubber meets the rock and they actually go off road.

Then I chickened out and thought I should go with the same size in KO2s because they are good in pretty much all the terrain I will be dealing with out west (dirt/gravel, slick rock and snow) - but worse in mud back home and will probably rub less with the more rounded sidewall and smaller diameter. There are real tire reviews from people wheeling them hard and videos on youtube showing the same. Can't really find much of the R/T. The KO2's main drawbacks seem to be durability under a heavy truck and bad mud traction (it is an A/T after all). Well that, and the fact that it's only a 35"

Oh yeah, they weigh nearly 10# less too.

I can't make myself go MT because Toyo MTs will probably rub more (they are even bigger) and the road manners are gonna suck for the 2200mi trip home. STT Pros? I honestly don't know at this point and have thoroughly confused myself.

I'm leaning to just ordering the R/T because it's a "real" 37 and will be good on the road and better in the mud back home and will probably be sufficient tire to get me through the obstacles I want to run out west. I know MikeKey does awesome in Moab on with the Toyo ATII and it's the same carcass as the R/T. Thoughts????

Sorry for the :bump:

I figured it was better than starting yet another tire thread.

Rodeoflyer · Post by **Rodeoflyer** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:29 pm

I think 35's are fine for the areas a vehicle as large as a PW can go. Imo 37's are too much tire for 4.10's and you will have braking issues as well until you upgrade the stock brakes. You're talking about 70#+ tires. I would absolutely LOVE to mount 40'' tires but I would need 100ft lbs more TQ and a serious brake upgrade.

You want a TOUGH tire, 10 ply, 3 ply sidewall that you can air down.

Rodeoflyer · Post by **Rodeoflyer** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:08 pm

Spare clearance with 37's is another issue.

agpilot · Post by **agpilot** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:18 pm

I'll have 2 spares - one in the bed on a extra PW alloy and the 33" factory spare under the bed (that I could throw on a front wheel in an emergency).

As far as I know both the R/T and the KO2 are 3 ply sidewall tires. As for the weight the D rated 37" R/T weighs about the same as the 35" E rated version. And the 37" KO2 weighs even less though that does worry me as far as durability goes.

I don't think the truck *needs* to be regeared to run 37s. I suppose it's a matter of opinon. Numerically, it's only about a 10-12% change in diameter which would be the same as putting a 3.73 in the rear with stock tire size. Granted the extra weight is going to magnify that difference but I don't I'd really hate the truck if it had 3.73s instead of 4.10s.

I know that 35s are the sane, sensible choice, but I've looked through the picture thread and my heart wants 37s!

Rodeoflyer · Post by **Rodeoflyer** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:28 pm

If you want 37's by all mean go for it. I won't discourage you, just some of the issues you will encounter.

I would definitely go 37 or even 40 with the right conditions. It's just an opinion on my part. I wouldn't want to drive on 37's daily (17'' wheels) or a road trip.

If it's a weekend or recreational vehicle I would get 37's.

agpilot · Post by **agpilot** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:35 pm

Yeah, I've got my heart set on 37s - I just need to try to figure out which one is right for me!

It's a big purchase and one I'll likely be living with for the next few years as I don't put many miles on in a year. I just want to get it right the first time and be happy.

Rodeoflyer · Post by **Rodeoflyer** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:39 pm

I hear you and look forward to other opinions on the forum. These are just mine.

FirerescuePW · Post by **FirerescuePW** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:17 pm

I have 35" R/Ts on my PW. We were at Rausch Creek ORP this weekend and I had no problems on rocks, in mud, or any other terrain there. Now, honestly, it isn't Moab, but I can compare them to the M/Ts I had for the last few years on the same terrain. There wasn't anywhere I went with M/Ts that I couldn't go with R/Ts.
On road, there is no comparison. R/Ts have better manners, hands down.

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TankerZak · Post by **TankerZak** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:43 pm

FirerescuePW wrote:I have 35" R/Ts on my PW. We were at Rausch Creek ORP this weekend and I had no problems on rocks, in mud, or any other terrain there. Now, honestly, it isn't Moab, but I can compare them to the M/Ts I had for the last few years on the same terrain. There wasn't anywhere I went with M/Ts that I couldn't go with R/Ts.
On road, there is no comparison. R/Ts have better manners, hands down.

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I've had both and feel the same way. 35 RTs on right now. What pressure did you run at Rausch Creek?

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FirerescuePW · Post by **FirerescuePW** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:01 pm

25 F, 20 R
I used to run lower in the M/T, but I wanted to feel them out since this was the first time off road with them.

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HammerTime · Post by **HammerTime** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:25 am

Chromolykid wrote:BFG KO2's are just an excellent all-around tire that also rides quiet on the highway. Some older BFG's had issues with balancing but the new ones balance out great. Can't speak too much on snow performance because I have nothing to compare to, I used Furiosa to pull stranded cars up a steep hill on snowy pavement and had minimal slippage.

For what it's worth, I've been racing on BFG's for 6 years, lots of race wins and 2 championships (the car gets driven hard) and never had a single flat. Hit rocks so hard they broke my thumbs and split the wheel in half, the tires hold up through everything. The same can be said for all the chase trucks, zero flats with BFG KO2's and KM2's... Except for one from a railroad spike that took 10 tire plugs to patch.

I replaced the terrible firestone tires that were on my current Ram 2500 Cummins CC 4x4 with 285/65/R20 KO2s and hate to say it but they are wearing out quick. Only have 1 year and 12,000 miles on them but they look 35% worn out to me. I run 60 PSI in the front and 45 in the back when unloaded FYI.

I also had one of the KO2s destroyed by some road shrapnel and had to get a new one. Luckily, the guy at Discount Tire was nice enough to sell me a warranty (while I was there with the destroyed tire...) to save me a bunch of money on the new one. That's one of the reasons they get ALL my business...

I'm definitely leaning towards Toyo or Nitto for my next set.

Very interested in the suggestions, although my current truck is in a different category than a PW obviously.

AlterEgo · Post by **AlterEgo** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:52 am

agpilot wrote:That looks gnarly. I guess I'm back to square one again - I'll probably end up going with the Toyo R/T in 37x12.5R17 because it's 3-ply even though it's D-rated. There isn't an E rated 37 R/T only M/T. The anecdotal evidence the past few posts have made confirm what I've read elsewhere - the KO2 is probably not a heavy duty enough tire for this truck. I know there are a few guys on this board running it in 37" size which is what gave me the idea in the first place but I'm fairly sure I'll be happier with the Toyo.

Take a look at NITTO Exo Grapplers, they come in E and they have a 37x13.5x17

I am going to run them after my regear to 4.88 is complete.

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rkgzx9leftcoast · Post by **rkgzx9leftcoast** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:54 am

agpilot wrote:Yeah, I've got my heart set on 37s - I just need to try to figure out which one is right for me!

It's a big purchase and one I'll likely be living with for the next few years as I don't put many miles on in a year. I just want to get it right the first time and be happy.

I think you will be fine with any of the Toyos, The RT and MT are on a lot of Dodge trucks, I know ive seen quite a few on here that run them. I have the Ridge Grapplers on mine 37`s and love them. I have had them off road a few times here in AZ on rutted trails and hills with rocks and ruts, and they dont even look like they have been off road. I havnt had a chance to try them in snow yet, but I have a neighbor who has and said they were awesome....

I have adjusted with the pro cal now, but even before the 37`s were not the end of the world for me as far as drive ability. Get the 37`s and enjoy. Yes stopping distance is something to be aware of, but even on stock tires these trucks leave some to be desired in that area. I dont drive a huge amount of miles each year either, so larger tires are not as big of a concern for me.

yellowranger1 · Post by **yellowranger1** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:06 pm

I've been more than happy with my RTs and performance wise, I wouldn't hesitate to run them in a 37. The only thing holding me back is I don't want a full size spare in the bed again. I ran mine in Moab and was very happy with the grip they provided, I was aired down to 25psi and they conform very well and no excessive slipping. The only times they did slide, my old ko2 would have done the same. I think I have about 12-13k miles on them so far.

Post by **DamageWagon** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:12 pm

I would highly recommend the Toyos. They are heavy tires, but that weight is in their protection. I'm running 34" Toyo MT's right now and I've never even ridden in a truck with as much traction as these. The road manners are good, though with this smaller size I do feel a lot of smaller bumps at street pressure (45/40). When I'm Offroad I usually drop to 25/25 and almost all bumps go away. These tires are extremely survivable and sticky. The only Toyo MT I've killed was when I hit a large pointed rock at 45mph, but that hit penetrated the sidewalk and bent the wheel. I'll be running D range 37" MT's next.

The Toyo RT has the same construction as the MT and is very survivable. D range has the same construction as E range but drops 2 plies and some sidewall thickness. I've heard guys loving the RT, it really seems like a cross between an AT and a MT. ReloaderGuy is a good one to ask. I would also say that if you are comparing any tires directly to Moab "slick rock" (aka sandpaper), you're getting the wrong feel. A Honda Civic on bald street tires could get good traction in Moab. It's other places where tires matter.

I ran the KO2's on the last truck and was 50/50 on them. I thought they rode like crap and it always felt like the tread rolled over on them when I took a turn, which surprised me being they were only 265/75R16's. I talked with Ash at DPP and he is running the new Cooper STT's in a 37" flavor and is very happy with them overall. Yokohama just came out with a new MT tire that looks like they walked into Toyo and stole their design plans, but since that isn't for sale until next week there aren't any real reviews of that tire.

Post by **DamageWagon** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:56 pm

Edit: I was just shown a picture of D and E range Toyos. They both apparently have the same exact plies (both are 10-ply), it's the sidewall rubber thickness that changes between them.

TankerZak · Post by **TankerZak** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:00 pm

DamageWagon wrote:Edit: I was just shown a picture of D and E range Toyos. They both apparently have the same exact plies (both are 10-ply), it's the sidewall rubber thickness that changes between them.

Yeah, I'd do my 35 RTs again all day any day. I didnt want to give up spare or towing or E rating by going to 37s. To many compromises not enough benefit. If i could find rims as good as stock i WOULD go to 18s. Something about 17s and 35s. Such a tall sidewall when theu get flexing they get a little squirrly but 37s would make that worse.

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Post by **DamageWagon** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:30 pm

That's funny, the tall sidewall is what I'm looking for (for ride quality). Towing is on the other end of the spectrum. That's where E vs D range, sidewall height and tire pressure really play in.

agpilot · Post by **agpilot** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:39 pm

Thanks for all the input, everyone! I just ordered 5x 37x12.50r17 Toyo R/Ts. I'll post some pics next week when I get them (and the thuren front level) installed. Can't wait!!`

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