Best dual battery setup

[rbpowerwagon]

So a few weeks ago my battery decided to crap out. Bought a new one and since this is the time of year for shitty weather, winching people from ditches, and boosting vehicles, I thought why no a dual battery setup. Only problem is what to go with? I'm looking for opinion s on what people are running. So far I'm mixed between a blue sea, a Luna, and a painless. I do like the blue seal 6722 because it has a built in manual isolation switch in it. I have a bunch of 0/1awg laying around so wire is not an issue, just looking for a really good quality acr.

[olyelr]

I would like to know more about this as well.

As far as adding another battery, is there a need to add anything more than just a second battery and the wiring to it? For example, simply installing a second battery somewhere and then only wires going from factory battery to the added battery. Nothing else. Would that work?

Sorry for the kindergarden type question, but i am horrible when it comes to wiring.

[DamageWagon]

I would like to know more about this as well.

As far as adding another battery, is there a need to add anything more than just a second battery and the wiring to it? For example, simply installing a second battery somewhere and then only wires going from factory battery to the added battery. Nothing else. Would that work?

Sorry for the kindergarden type question, but i am horrible when it comes to wiring.

Yes, that works and is a simple way to do it. That would be perfectly fine, although I believe you want both batteries to be the same. The complications start when someone wants the second battery to do something specific. Sometimes the second battery is charged normally but only used to power certain accessories like radios, not for anything else. Sometimes the second battery is only ever used when the primary battery is too weak to start the engine, so a switch is placed between the second battery and the starter. Sometimes people put a switch between the second battery and the primary battery to just use it for winching. There are more complex setups some people use so that they have the power of both batteries when they need it but only draw from one battery normally, but both are always charging. It just depends on each persons needs.

I'm only adding a second battery because I have an Optima sitting on the shelf and we plan to run accessories at night without the engine running. Otherwise my single battery makes me happy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[S3Rc51]

I'm on board too. Waiting for my new truck, and with the dual alts this is an upgrade i've already been considering, along with some sort of a custom brewed on board air setup in one of the Ram Box's.

Olyer...you could totally just wire up the battery in Parallel, essentially landing the cables right on top of stocker, and double (or add to, depending on size) the capacity of the battery. What i would really like to though is some sort of isolation...either have one battery dedicated to the winch, or better yet have the starting battery completely isolated with ignition off, and a deep cycle/marine battery that is allowed to run flat with the ignition off for lights, radio, winch, etc....insuring that when the time comes you have the starting battery to fire the truck back up.

I have no idea what the actual logistics of this are, never done it; but I'm sure that in this day and age somebody makes a "brain" for this that includes relays and what not that will isolate the one battery automatically with the ignition off. Any input from somebody who has done this, along with how they mounted the second batt, would be awesome.

[Reloaderguy]

I would like to know more about this as well.

As far as adding another battery, is there a need to add anything more than just a second battery and the wiring to it? For example, simply installing a second battery somewhere and then only wires going from factory battery to the added battery. Nothing else. Would that work?

Sorry for the kindergarden type question, but i am horrible when it comes to wiring.

Depends on what you're doing. You would need to replace both batteries at the same time if you are going to run them together. If the OP plans to move his winch to the aux battery he should use an isolator and a battery like an Optima Yellow top. "Best" really comes down to the OP's intended use as DM pointed out. I like the BlueSea ML/ACR because of the simplicity and rated amps, most isolators are not rated to couple both batteries and pull continuous 450A.

[Reloaderguy]

I'm on board too. Waiting for my new truck, and with the dual alts this is an upgrade i've already been considering, along with some sort of a custom brewed on board air setup in one of the Ram Box's.

Olyer...you could totally just wire up the battery in Parallel, essentially landing the cables right on top of stocker, and double (or add to, depending on size) the capacity of the battery. What i would really like to though is some sort of isolation...either have one battery dedicated to the winch, or better yet have the starting battery completely isolated with ignition off, and a deep cycle/marine battery that is allowed to run flat with the ignition off for lights, radio, winch, etc....insuring that when the time comes you have the starting battery to fire the truck back up.

I have no idea what the actual logistics of this are, never done it; but I'm sure that in this day and age somebody makes a "brain" for this that includes relays and what not that will isolate the one battery automatically with the ignition off. Any input from somebody who has done this, along with how they mounted the second batt, would be awesome.

The trouble with the '14+ Power Wagons is no one makes an aftermarket intake that frees up the space occupied by the factory airbox. Gen 3 and Gen (up to '13) could use the Cummins second battery tray to install an auxiliary battery. I had to put the second battery in the bed and run cables all the way to the back. It's not bad but not ideal either. Here is how I did what you're talking about: http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... &start=125

[rbpowerwagon]

I have the dual battery setup for the 2011 cummins. Battery is only a few weeks old so I will go with another interstate battery that is identical. I Am just wondering the best approach to parallel them up. I do have a aftermarket intake and wondering the best control for the second battery

[Reloaderguy]

Define best. What are you doing with the second battery? Are you moving the winch or leaving it on the chassis battery? You don't need identical batteries unless you plan on wiring them parallel.

[Smeargle]

Actually, yes it is. There is no "good" dual battery set up. I have been through this with some of the best parts on the market to put it together using what was supposed to be good batteries.

[Ducky's Dad]

Your batteries don't have to be identical. It's nice but not necessary. I have run combinations of Optima Yellow and Red in my GMC, and combos of Odyssey 31 and Optima Red 34, Odyssey 31 and Odyssey 34, and currently have an Odyssey 31 as starting battery with a pair of Optima Blue 34 Dual Purpose as house batteries and backups for winching and emergency starting. I have the Painless isolator in both of my trucks and I like it. I am not a fan of ACRs, but if you want to go that way, stick with Blue Sea. The guys on Expo Portal have reported a lot of problems with the Nat Luna systems, and they are expensive. The simplest and cheapest way to go dual is to just put a Blue Sea or Marinco rotary switch between the two batteries, because you absolutely want to have a way to isolate them when you are parked for long periods or when you are running a fridge or other accessory off the second battery. With the rotary switch you give up the convenience of switching from the dash toggle that Painless provides. I like the Painless because I am in complete control of which batteries are charging or starting or winching or running the fridge, and I have the two house batteries isolated from each other with a Blue Sea rotary switch next to the back seat. I can winch off one or two or three batteries if necessary, but if I use two, I still have one isolated to start the truck. I can run the fridge on one or two of the house batteries without affecting the starting battery. System is inexpensive (except for the batteries), simple, flexible, and dead reliable.

[rbpowerwagon]

Define best. What are you doing with the second battery? Are you moving the winch or leaving it on the chassis battery? You don't need identical batteries unless you plan on wiring them parallel.

Not a POS, reliable. Basically used as jump starting and running all the accessories. So it would be nice to isolate it if I need to boost another vehicle and run the risk of shorting out anything.

[Ducky's Dad]

So it would be nice to isolate it...

It's not just nice to isolate the batteries, it's mandatory if you want a reliable and useful system. Without isolation, you just have one big battery in two separate boxes.

[TwinStick]

I have had a LOT of people tell me mine is all wrong. It works & works great. I am a big fan of the KISS theory, (Keep It Simple Stupid). It has never let me down. My one thing was to have a 350 amp Anderson Power Pole in it. I just unplug the 2nd battery when I don't need it & plug it in when I do. Most of the time mine is plugged into the 2nd battery. When at home or camping I always have it plugged into a 1.5 amp battery maintainer/charger. No issues with either 1 or both batteries hooked up. It seems to charge them both fine, even though the charger is only hooked up to the one under the hood.

Under hood battery is a 2015: https://www.walmart.com/ip/20703125
Battery in bed is a 2009: Sears Die Hard Platinum Marine Large Gp-31 http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-m ... 850131000P that is no longer avail.

[altaguy]

I have a 2012 and picked up a second battery tray and installed that for my second battery and used the Hellroaring dual battery setup.

I had to get the Vararam intake to make room for the second battery under the hood but it also gave me enough room for a Viair dual 480C onboard air system.

The Hellroaring system has been awesome and everything runs through the main battery. The second battery is basically just a backup and you have a switch in the cab to isolate the batteries or run them together. If you kill the battery, just flip the switch and start the truck off the second battery. The charging system charges the main battery first and then switches over to charge the second battery.

[RAM4ROKS]

Just a thought but, what about running a truly independent auxiliary battery? Run a second alternator going to the second battery, and run all non-stock accessories off the second battery. (CB, lights, compressor, a rear winch, fridge, whatever) That way, if you leave something aftermarket on and the second battery gets killed, you can still start up and run just as normal with the stock battery AND if you leave some stock accessory on and kill the stock battery, you just swap the one that's hooked up to the aftermarket stuff into place and start up and run. Seems like the easiest and most dependable way, COMPLETELY isolating the systems and having a backup if needed! I guess that's only worth it if you plan to run a lot of things though!

[Reloaderguy]

I have a 2012 and picked up a second battery tray and installed that for my second battery and used the Hellroaring dual battery setup.

I had to get the Vararam intake to make room for the second battery under the hood but it also gave me enough room for a Viair dual 480C onboard air system.

The Hellroaring system has been awesome and everything runs through the main battery. The second battery is basically just a backup and you have a switch in the cab to isolate the batteries or run them together. If you kill the battery, just flip the switch and start the truck off the second battery. The charging system charges the main battery first and then switches over to charge the second battery.

If you buried your truck to the axles and did a full pull, how many amps would the "combiner" need to handle continuously? The peak rated load of the winch is 460A. Maybe someone with some electrical engineering background could describe total draw from the second battery if the first battery is at a discharged state. When I was looking at my system I could not determine the peak draw so I went with the highest rated continuous draw isolator I could find, which was the Blue Sea. I'm not sure how I correct I am though.

[TwinStick]

Sometimes, thats all you can do, is go with the biggest you can find. Thats what I had to do with the Anderson Power Poles I used. 350 amp was the biggest i could find.

[Ducky's Dad]

Blue Sea has several amperages available in their rotary switches, and I think that holds for their ACRs if I remember correctly. I think the BS rotary switch on my house batteries is rated for 500 amps, and all connections are 3/0 welding cable. I used a smaller BS switch for my OBA, and I think that one is rated for 350.

[rbpowerwagon]

Thanks for everyone's input. I will most likely go with the highest rating solenoid or acr I can find. Does anyone know what the solenoid on the winch is?

[rbpowerwagon]

So further investigation the blue sea solenoid is rated at 500 amps continuous, 750 amps at 5 minutes, and 1450 amps for 30sec cranking. This should be more then adequate for everyone's needs.

[DamageWagon]

I have a 2012 and picked up a second battery tray and installed that for my second battery and used the Hellroaring dual battery setup.

I had to get the Vararam intake to make room for the second battery under the hood but it also gave me enough room for a Viair dual 480C onboard air system.

The Hellroaring system has been awesome and everything runs through the main battery. The second battery is basically just a backup and you have a switch in the cab to isolate the batteries or run them together. If you kill the battery, just flip the switch and start the truck off the second battery. The charging system charges the main battery first and then switches over to charge the second battery.

If you buried your truck to the axles and did a full pull, how many amps would the "combiner" need to handle continuously? The peak rated load of the winch is 460A. Maybe someone with some electrical engineering background could describe total draw from the second battery if the first battery is at a discharged state. When I was looking at my system I could not determine the peak draw so I went with the highest rated continuous draw isolator I could find, which was the Blue Sea. I'm not sure how I correct I am though.

Haha whoa whoa whoa, we're getting carried away here! If your first battery is discharged and THEN you input the second battery, you aren't doing things right or you have other problems. If you are using both batteries in parallel you will pull slightly more amps from the primary battery. If you are using this dual battery setup only occasionally or for lighter-duty work, you can use a switch that is rated for something around 200 amps. If you are looking at using this second battery all the time, or for heavy work, then get a switch with a higher rating than you assume. 500 Amos should be plenty. Higher ratings will last longer, guaranteed. Also keep in mind that if we are talking about 460 amps running through that switch, you need to pay real close attention to one of these charts:



Read those top lines on the chart carefully.

Also keep in mind that with a dual battery setup, if one battery dies it will take the other with it. This is why it is best to buy them at about the same time. It is a good idea to buy the same model because different batteries charge differently. Newer batteries and AGMs are not affected as much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rbpowerwagon]

That's awesome info on the wire sizing. Thanks. 3/0 should be plenty for the length I'm looking at. Do you know the temp rating on that table for the wire jackets?

[DamageWagon]

That's awesome info on the wire sizing. Thanks. 3/0 should be plenty for the length I'm looking at. Do you know the temp rating on that table for the wire jackets?

Temp rating is based on the type of insulation used. PVC, Buna-N (Nitrile), EPDM are the most common. Any insulation will work for you in terms of temperature. The biggest thing there is that some wires like welding wire (EPDM insulation) absorb oil and break down. As long as the wire isn't going directly next to the engine, welding wire is a good choice. PVC works well but is a bit stiffer and harder to maneuver.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reloaderguy]

I have a 2012 and picked up a second battery tray and installed that for my second battery and used the Hellroaring dual battery setup.

I had to get the Vararam intake to make room for the second battery under the hood but it also gave me enough room for a Viair dual 480C onboard air system.

The Hellroaring system has been awesome and everything runs through the main battery. The second battery is basically just a backup and you have a switch in the cab to isolate the batteries or run them together. If you kill the battery, just flip the switch and start the truck off the second battery. The charging system charges the main battery first and then switches over to charge the second battery.

If you buried your truck to the axles and did a full pull, how many amps would the "combiner" need to handle continuously? The peak rated load of the winch is 460A. Maybe someone with some electrical engineering background could describe total draw from the second battery if the first battery is at a discharged state. When I was looking at my system I could not determine the peak draw so I went with the highest rated continuous draw isolator I could find, which was the Blue Sea. I'm not sure how I correct I am though.

Haha whoa whoa whoa, we're getting carried away here! If your first battery is discharged and THEN you input the second battery, you aren't doing things right or you have other problems. If you are using both batteries in parallel you will pull slightly more amps from the primary battery. If you are using this dual battery setup only occasionally or for lighter-duty work, you can use a switch that is rated for something around 200 amps. If you are looking at using this second battery all the time, or for heavy work, then get a switch with a higher rating than you assume. 500 Amos should be plenty. Higher ratings will last longer, guaranteed. Also keep in mind that if we are talking about 460 amps running through that switch, you need to pay real close attention to one of these charts:



Read those top lines on the chart carefully.

Also keep in mind that with a dual battery setup, if one battery dies it will take the other with it. This is why it is best to buy them at about the same time. It is a good idea to buy the same model because different batteries charge differently. Newer batteries and AGMs are not affected as much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I looked at that chart when I was buying cable and assumed my peak load would be about 300A (I fused at 350A). With that said, momentary peak load on a stalled M15K winch easily exceeds 600A. It all comes back to the intended use and how you plan to wire the winch. I'm running 160" of 2/0 cable which isn't large enough for the scenario above but my secondary battery is for aux electrical and self jump starting. I wish I could put my second battery under the hood.

[DamageWagon]

His is my point. Your second battery isn't ever feeling a 600amp load. In fact, at that distance, I don't even think you have enough wire gauge at that distance to get enough wattage anyways. Let's be clear that your primary battery is feeling the load of the winch. Your secondary battery is feeling less than half of that load.

Let me also throw out there that before anyone starts throwing a bunch of money at buying big-amp equipment, you should first cut off those dinky battery terminals and put some legitimate mil-spec style connectors on there, with real battery life on the wire. This gives you the benefit of it being super easy to add additional wires off the battery in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk