Power Wagon vs. Rebel... Sibling rivalries???

[Pit Slave]

https://youtu.be/t0khNHWBaWw

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[OffroadTreks]

I love Fast Lane Truck, but their offroad tests always feel weak.

[Low_Sky]

I respect the success that TFL is having as an "everyman's" motoring review website, and sometimes I find their videos entertaining, but they're pretty close to complete idiots.

For example, the premise stated at the start of this one was "are the Rebel and PW worth the ridiculous $50k+ price tags?". If they were really trying to answer that question, they should drive them head to head with "regular" 1500 and 2500s.

At about the 6:30 mark, the host says he's about to go up an obstacle in 4LO, fully locked up.... As he's making a turn at full lock with no tire scrub, and his wheels are slipping as he straightens out and goes up. Was he just saying that for the camera, did he believe he had lockers engaged? Who knows?


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[walc]

Interesting comparison.
I have to agree with the review.
My PW is much more off-road capable than I will ever use.
The Rebel would make much more sense for me. However, the PW is what I "want". So, WTH, I bought it.

[Reloaderguy]

...but they're pretty close to complete idiots.

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Scathing reviews don't get corporate invites and paid airfare.

[Low_Sky]

...but they're pretty close to complete idiots.

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Scathing reviews don't get corporate invites and paid airfare.

Haha, no they don't. Like I said, good for them for getting their little slice of the dream, but I'm not sure those guys COULD write a scathing review because they don't know enough to be critical.

[OffroadTreks]

As stated in the opening video, Ram invited them out, which meant it was controlled. So they probably weren't allowed to do things like Airdown. When I saw him take the PW up the section and staying to the right, I thought to myself, WTF you can totally go up the left there, I've done harder stuff with mine stock.

Things like this, the manufacturer only wants to show the vehicle in the best possible light.

If you want a really detailed review, check out my boy Allen Butler's review of the 2015 Ram Power Wagon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgxcKy3OxJE

This is a good unbiased review.

[04Ram2500Hemi]

I think the Rebel is an awesome marketing tool for Ram trucks. It's a fun looking half ton, it's different from the rest of the Ram 1500 line up, and you know what it is as soon as you see it. To be honest, it's probably a great truck. That being said, I wouldn't buy one over a Power Wagon. I very seldom need the 3/4 capabilities of my truck, I've only used the lockers a few times, the sway bar is a neat trick but used less than the lockers, and the winch is a good piece of mind to me. All that being said, I'd rather have too much truck and never need it, than not enough truck and wish I had it.

[Will]

I think the Rebel is an awesome marketing tool for Ram trucks. It's a fun looking half ton, it's different from the rest of the Ram 1500 line up, and you know what it is as soon as you see it. To be honest, it's probably a great truck. That being said, I wouldn't buy one over a Power Wagon. I very seldom need the 3/4 capabilities of my truck, I've only used the lockers a few times, the sway bar is a neat trick but used less than the lockers, and the winch is a good piece of mind to me. All that being said, I'd rather have too much truck and never need it, than not enough truck and wish I had it.

Can I borrow yours until mine gets back?

[04Ram2500Hemi]

I think the Rebel is an awesome marketing tool for Ram trucks. It's a fun looking half ton, it's different from the rest of the Ram 1500 line up, and you know what it is as soon as you see it. To be honest, it's probably a great truck. That being said, I wouldn't buy one over a Power Wagon. I very seldom need the 3/4 capabilities of my truck, I've only used the lockers a few times, the sway bar is a neat trick but used less than the lockers, and the winch is a good piece of mind to me. All that being said, I'd rather have too much truck and never need it, than not enough truck and wish I had it.

Can I borrow yours until mine gets back?

LOL- sorry Will, but I like my axels to stay as close to factory condition as possible

[OffroadTreks]

I think the Rebel is an awesome marketing tool for Ram trucks. It's a fun looking half ton, it's different from the rest of the Ram 1500 line up, and you know what it is as soon as you see it. To be honest, it's probably a great truck. That being said, I wouldn't buy one over a Power Wagon. I very seldom need the 3/4 capabilities of my truck, I've only used the lockers a few times, the sway bar is a neat trick but used less than the lockers, and the winch is a good piece of mind to me. All that being said, I'd rather have too much truck and never need it, than not enough truck and wish I had it.

I agree. I really think the Rebel is a smart move, even though it's a bit bland as far as features. It's certainly a one up on the Z71 and FX4 packages (which typically just feature blistien shocks and badges) without competing directly with the Raptor, which it isn't.

What I would like to see in the Rebel is maybe some more chops, throw the hill descent on it, and maybe just a rear locker like the Tacoma has, this would firmly plant it in a class of it's own in the half ton market. If they could adapt the air ride and give it terrian modes, that'd be even better. And I think Ram would have a serious winner. It wouldn't be a Raptor, and it wouldn't need to be. And it wouldn't be encroaching on the Power Wagon either.

But it'd be more truck than the Tacoma I think a lot of potential buyers would go for it over a FX4 or Z71 package from the competitors.

Just my two cents.

[TruckBoatTruck]

I think the Rebel is an awesome marketing tool for Ram trucks. It's a fun looking half ton, it's different from the rest of the Ram 1500 line up, and you know what it is as soon as you see it. To be honest, it's probably a great truck. That being said, I wouldn't buy one over a Power Wagon. I very seldom need the 3/4 capabilities of my truck, I've only used the lockers a few times, the sway bar is a neat trick but used less than the lockers, and the winch is a good piece of mind to me. All that being said, I'd rather have too much truck and never need it, than not enough truck and wish I had it.

I agree. I really think the Rebel is a smart move, even though it's a bit bland as far as features. It's certainly a one up on the Z71 and FX4 packages (which typically just feature blistien shocks and badges) without competing directly with the Raptor, which it isn't.

What I would like to see in the Rebel is maybe some more chops, throw the hill descent on it, and maybe just a rear locker like the Tacoma has, this would firmly plant it in a class of it's own in the half ton market. If they could adapt the air ride and give it terrian modes, that'd be even better. And I think Ram would have a serious winner. It wouldn't be a Raptor, and it wouldn't need to be. And it wouldn't be encroaching on the Power Wagon either.

But it'd be more truck than the Tacoma I think a lot of potential buyers would go for it over a FX4 or Z71 package from the competitors.

Just my two cents.

And this is why ram should have a presence on this forum. That would make the rebel a contender not a flashy billboard

[2011TXPowerWagon]

As stated in the opening video, Ram invited them out, which meant it was controlled. So they probably weren't allowed to do things like Airdown. When I saw him take the PW up the section and staying to the right, I thought to myself, WTF you can totally go up the left there, I've done harder stuff with mine stock.

Things like this, the manufacturer only wants to show the vehicle in the best possible light.

If you want a really detailed review, check out my boy Allen Butler's review of the 2015 Ram Power Wagon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgxcKy3OxJE

This is a good unbiased review.

I like his videos and reviews. Got a really good one about White Knuckle sliders also. Thanks for pointing him out.

[Reloaderguy]

Who has the time to sit there and watch rambling 24 minute Youtube videos about something you already own?

[15pwag]

Let me start by saying I LOVE my PW. Specially my new Laramie. But I've always told my friends that gimme hell about having a 3/4 ton truck, that if they made a 1/2 ton PW I'd pry buy one. Like 04 says, I don't use mine as much as most of you guys do. I love the lockers and the winch but I don't do much crawling so my sway bar never gets used. I have used the lockers a bit in the snow and the winch to pull my buddies out. Do I need a 3/4 ton truck? No. Am I glad I have one? HELL YESS!!! Am I glad that it's a PW? You better damn well know it.

I was hard core Chevy before. But they don't and never will make anything like a PW. they always come out with these great looking concepts but that's as far as they go. "They got the realtree truck!" some guys say. I need something a little more than just graphics to get me where I need to go. Therefore as long as ram makes a PW, they'll always have at least one buyer.

If ram made a Rebel with lockers, crew cab WITH the 6 1/2 foot box I'd pry buy it. I like the box length and that's why I like the bigger trucks. And the fact they usually have higher ground clearance.

[Wirebrush]

The Power Wagon is really only a half ton. The Tacoma has a greater rated payload. Which is fine with me. I don't buy 3/4 ton trucks because I need the payload capacity. I buy them for the heavy duty drive train, steering components, brakes, and suspension components. IMHO the Power Wagon (like the old Chevy light duty 3/4 ton I once had) is the best of both worlds- heavy duty components and light duty springs that are flexible and soft riding. I don't use the sway bar disconnect much right now, because it will only disengage when creeping slowly. Once I get Smart bar bypass I expect to use the disconnect a lot more just to improve the ride over rough, rocky, rutted roads and trails. I personally have zero interest in an off road truck with a bunch of flashiness and light duty axles, brakes, steering components, etc. I can't even wrap my mind around how you could compare the two.

[RAM4ROKS]

I like the new Mopar beadlock wheels they sell for the Rebel. Wish they'd make some sharp looking beadlocks for the Power Wagon!

[olyelr]

The Power Wagon is really only a half ton. The Tacoma has a greater rated payload. Which is fine with me....

Half ton? Not quite. Just cause the payload rating is pathetic (for a 3/4 ton truck) dosnt mean its a half ton. I guess it depends on how you look at things... In my mind it is a truck with 1 ton frame/drive train with a soft flexible suspension with a payload rating of less than most half ton trucks. But its far from a half ton truck.

And I would love to see a Tacoma try to haul a load that would max out a PW

[olyelr]

I like the new Mopar beadlock wheels they sell for the Rebel. Wish they'd make some sharp looking beadlocks for the Power Wagon!

Exactly! I have been eyeing those up too!

Some of those concept vehicles that the Mopar guys are building are flat out fawking badass. Many are Jeeps, but hell that shortbox regular cab PW was freeking sweet too. I wish they would go the next step and actually produce some of that stuff for the public.

[Snowsled]

The Power Wagon is really only a half ton. The Tacoma has a greater rated payload. Which is fine with me....

Half ton? Not quite. Just cause the payload rating is pathetic (for a 3/4 ton truck) dosnt mean its a half ton. I guess it depends on how you look at things... In my mind it is a truck with 1 ton frame/drive train with a soft flexible suspension with a payload rating of less than most half ton trucks. But its far from a half ton truck.

And I would love to see a Tacoma try to haul a load that would max out a PW

Yeah, the Taco is probably in a similar boat. A stripped down regular cab 2wd might have a similar payload, but a fully optioned 4wd 4 door long bed, not so much. Stock leafs sag within warranty without overloading often enough to warrant a long overdue TSB on the 2nd Gens.

My buddy has a couple of 4 door 4x4 tacomas. We have hauled with bed full of firewood in both the taco and the PW. The Taco hauls its load better than my PW. The PW conjured up this weird cyclic floating on the highway the last time. Never had any truck do that. Make no mistake the PW suspension is EXTREMELY soft for hard work. Having heavy underpinnings is great but the truck needs mods to be any kind of heavy hauler.

[TruckBoatTruck]

My buddy has a couple of 4 door 4x4 tacomas. We have hauled with bed full of firewood in both the taco and the PW. The Taco hauls its load better than my PW. The PW conjured up this weird cyclic floating on the highway the last time. Never had any truck do that. Make no mistake the PW suspension is EXTREMELY soft for hard work. Having heavy underpinnings is great but the truck needs mods to be any kind of heavy hauler.
[/quote]


The PW for sure gets that strange floating wobble. When I hauled my buddies RZR 800 in the back it did the same thing. My 2009 ram 1500 5.7 did the same thing when I put a 4 wheeler in the back but it was much worse almost caused the truck to shake itself to death.

[Reloaderguy]

I wonder how much of it has to do with the increased angle of the rear track bar? I was considering a carli drop to center the rear axle and reduce the wagging feeling. I haven't driven my truck yet with the new Thuren coils and Kings so I'm not sure how it behaves at this point.

[NickTF]

I have hauled nearly identical loads in my 15 pw to that of snowsled and never noticed any "weird cyclic floating" at highway speeds. I don't haul loads like that frequently but regardless just my two cents during similar circumstances.

Fact is you can put a cheap set of air bags on the rear of these trucks more than likely and enjoy the benefits of the 3/4 ton vs the half ton pickup as pointed out before.

[TruckBoatTruck]

I have hauled nearly identical loads in my 15 pw to that of snowsled and never noticed any "weird cyclic floating" at highway speeds. I don't haul loads like that frequently but regardless just my two cents during similar circumstances.

Fact is you can put a cheap set of air bags on the rear of these trucks more than likely and enjoy the benefits of the 3/4 ton vs the half ton pickup as pointed out before.

if I ever end up having to haul all the time I am going to go the bag route but more then likely I'm just gonna buy a trailer and let the wagon be a wagon.

[olyelr]

My buddy has a couple of 4 door 4x4 tacomas. We have hauled with bed full of firewood in both the taco and the PW. The Taco hauls its load better than my PW. The PW conjured up this weird cyclic floating on the highway the last time. Never had any truck do that. Make no mistake the PW suspension is EXTREMELY soft for hard work. Having heavy underpinnings is great but the truck needs mods to be any kind of heavy hauler.

My brother has a 4 door taco as well. I have seen him hook it up to a car hauler loaded completely full of insulation (probably at least 3 or 4 thousand pounds) and tow it away with no drama. The truck did amazingly well IMO for what they are.

That being said, my PW will tow way more than that truck ever dreamed of. Regardless of payload numbers.