New Rig

[Jbostick]

Ramv were you and your rig on the Ultimate Adventure a couple years ago?

[olyelr]

This has got to be the same ramv from back in my pavementsucks days lol. What ablast from the past!

Sounds to me, with your needs, what would be best for you is the power wagon. Good luck on your choice!

[ramv]

IMHO there is little too much obsession with locker bypass. It's far from being must have. Most likely you don't need it at all. PW honestly will run circles around Avalanche off road, lockers or not. Just like others in the above group, maybe to lesser degree. 35"s are good fit.

Guess probably not must have, but I do like being able to lock up in the deep snow in high range.

Avalanches/Suburbans are decent wheelers, much better f/r weight bias than pickups, and the G80 in the 14 bolt locks nicely with limited wheelspin. Not bad wheel hop in most situations. However, really am only comparing the 3 listed. They haven't made a 3/4 ton Avalanche or a Vortec 8100 since 2006 so basically a moot point.

[ramv]

This has got to be the same ramv from back in my pavementsucks days lol. What ablast from the past!

Sounds to me, with your needs, what would be best for you is the power wagon. Good luck on your choice!

Yep!

Still have the blue '01. Lots more dents and broken parts added to the list. Only a few rollovers though.

[olyelr]

This has got to be the same ramv from back in my pavementsucks days lol. What ablast from the past!

Sounds to me, with your needs, what would be best for you is the power wagon. Good luck on your choice!

Yep!

Still have the blue '01. Lots more dents and broken parts added to the list. Only a few rollovers though.

Hahahaha, I remember watching your truck go from a stock unit to an extreme wheeler. I always wished I had the kahuna's to do what you did with your truck. I basically had the same truck (but a yellow 2000) for 11 years or so and sold it when I got married and had a kid (not a good family rig!). Man I sure miss the ol girl.... wish I would have just kept the dang thing.

I cant imagine a guy of your caliber not going with the PW for a DD-tow rig-jack of all trades kinda vehicle. One of the main drawback's about it for me is the horrendous payload (my freekin minivan almost has more!), but I have pretty much wrote that off as it still has the HD drivetrain, so add a set of bags and all should be good.

If you have no desire for a diesel, and you want lockers and a winch, I see no reason to consider anything else... POWER WAGON.

[ramv]

Ramv were you and your rig on the Ultimate Adventure a couple years ago?

2004 and 2005. Good times.

[ramv]

This has got to be the same ramv from back in my pavementsucks days lol. What ablast from the past!

Sounds to me, with your needs, what would be best for you is the power wagon. Good luck on your choice!

Yep!

Still have the blue '01. Lots more dents and broken parts added to the list. Only a few rollovers though.

Hahahaha, I remember watching your truck go from a stock unit to an extreme wheeler. I always wished I had the kahuna's to do what you did with your truck. I basically had the same truck (but a yellow 2000) for 11 years or so and sold it when I got married and had a kid (not a good family rig!). Man I sure miss the ol girl.... wish I would have just kept the dang thing.

I cant imagine a guy of your caliber not going with the PW for a DD-tow rig-jack of all trades kinda vehicle. One of the main drawback's about it for me is the horrendous payload (my freekin minivan almost has more!), but I have pretty much wrote that off as it still has the HD drivetrain, so add a set of bags and all should be good.

If you have no desire for a diesel, and you want lockers and a winch, I see no reason to consider anything else... POWER WAGON.

I figure some airbags and some 5.13s would solve payload and towing. Hard to believe how tall these trucks are geared stock with a double OD. I had 2011 1500, never used 6th. Avalanche had 4.10s, 30"s and a 0.75 OD stock with a 8.1 L.

[OffroadTreks]

Payload is a non-issue. What you should consider, and all DOT cares about is axle ratings, tire ratings and GVCWR. Hell I'm over payload when hitched up. I posted my numbers elsewhere. That would seem pretty terrible since I upgraded from a 1500 to a 2500. But on both vehicles, I am not over GVCWR or the axle and tire ratings. I posted my weight tickets elsewhere around here. Folks make a big deal out of payload, but there are a few dynamics you can adjust for that.

Personal opinion, but I think they derate the PW payload and GVWR for the same reason they label the winch 12000lbs.

Update, my numbers; http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... =50#p63719

[olyelr]

I figure some airbags and some 5.13s would solve payload and towing. Hard to believe how tall these trucks are geared stock with a double OD...

Their just trying to play the MPG game. Stupid move IMO. I bet 4.56's would do just as good, especially with the MDS. Hell, the truck would probably stay in MDS mode much easier and longer with the lower gears.

5.13's?! Jezuz you going straight to 37's or what

[ramv]

5.13s were great on the 2001 with 37"s, of course, only a 0.69 OD on the 46RE.... (Running Kenne Bell 93 octane tuning)

5.13s with the 66RE and 35"s is about the same the Avalanche was stock.

[Will]

Avalanches/Suburbans are decent wheelers, much better f/r weight bias than pickups,

Since I added the topper, bedslide and keep a few hundred pounds in the bed, my PW is nicely balanced as you've mentioned. I run almost the same tire pressure front and rear now. The front stays level and floats over ditches and off camber terrain.

[olyelr]

Payload is a non-issue. What you should consider, and all DOT cares about is axle ratings, tire ratings and GVCWR. Hell I'm over payload when hitched up. I posted my numbers elsewhere. That would seem pretty terrible since I upgraded from a 1500 to a 2500. But on both vehicles, I am not over GVCWR or the axle and tire ratings. I posted my weight tickets elsewhere around here. Folks make a big deal out of payload, but there are a few dynamics you can adjust for that.

Personal opinion, but I think they derate the PW payload and GVWR for the same reason they label the winch 12000lbs.

Update, my numbers; http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... =50#p63719

MikeKey do you feel you would benefit from adding a set of airbags in the rear, or does it feel fine with the TT in tow without them? Does the weight distribution hitch get the truck back to level or no? Thanks!

[olyelr]

Avalanches/Suburbans are decent wheelers, much better f/r weight bias than pickups,

Since I added the topper, bedslide and keep a few hundred pounds in the bed, my PW is nicely balanced as you've mentioned. I run almost the same tire pressure front and rear now. The front stays level and floats over ditches and off camber terrain.

Floats.

[OffroadTreks]

MikeKey do you feel you would benefit from adding a set of airbags in the rear, or does it feel fine with the TT in tow without them? Does the weight distribution hitch get the truck back to level or no? Thanks!

I just posted a thread over on the Ram forum about this issue. Depending on hitch weight and setup, you should be able to get your truck very close to level. But if you don't drive over the scales, you'll never know what's going on. Too many guys immediately jump to buying bags or coils without first making sure their hitch is set up and dialed in correctly.

I spent the time adjusting the setup for the new truck. I feel I have it dialed in. Took measurements at front and rear. Trailer and truck are level with the WD. Weights are correct and near 100% FALR. That being said, I don't think I need bags for a sag issue. But it does feel soft in the rear over things. I need more towing time to make up my mind on that. But it feels like it could be stiffer. I'm used to progressive springs where the more weight you put on them the stiffer it gets.

[olyelr]

Very nice setup there MikeKey, looks like you have it dialed in well. Truck looks nice and level.

Yeah, although bags may not be needed to level it, they will help take care of the soft feel of the rear springs.

I need to find some scales somewhere and see what kind of a setup we have going on. Like you say, until you do it, its all just speculation.

[TwinStick]

What is the tongue weight on that air stream ? Traditionally, Air Streams have been VERY well balanced with the perfect 10-15% of total weight at the hitch. My 30" toyhauler had an EMPTY hitch weight of 1150 lbs. It also had a 100 gal fresh water tank in FRONT of the 2 axles (water is 8.3 lbs per gallon), 2, 30 lb propane tanks & 2 deep cycle batteries and a 3 1/2' w x 2' h x 8' wide pass through storage area directly behind the A-frame. That translated into about 2000 lbs of tongue weight with no toys inside. The toys helped offset the hitch weight. It was 10,500 lbs fully loaded. All i did was add a set of Hellwig Load Pro 35's. It drove fine with camper after that. Yes, it was a WD hitch with anti sway bars.

[RustyPW]

You have to know your tongue weight to know which bars you need with a camper. When I was towing my 35ft camper. I used a Reese Twin Cam hitch and 1,200 lbs bars. My tongue weight was 800 lbs. The 1,200 lbs bars was bit of an overkill. If you have the bars adjusted wrong. You can make the front end light, rear heavy. Or front heavy, rear light. Which leads to bad handling. I also went with Carli long travel air bags. 30 lbs in the bags did wonders.

[MoparToYou]

Ramv,
After looking at those pictures with two off road rigs on the same trailer, it sure makes me favor a tow rig with a diesel engine. So I'm wondering why you had a Super Duty on your list of choices, but not a Ram with a Cummins? I'm sure you know as much as the rest of us do, about how much better a diesel tows than a gas engine vehicle does. I've owned a few newer diesel trucks, and several gas engine newer trucks, and I sure do prefer the diesel engine, just about anywhere, even when not towing. That is one of the things that has somewhat underwhelmed me about my new Power Wagon, the 6.4 isn't a very exciting engine. There isn't really anything wrong with it, it just sort of leaves you wanting when you compare it to the same truck with a Cummins, and more than twice as much torque. It might be more satisfying adding lockers to a 900 ft lb diesel truck, than having a 430 ft lb gas truck that already has lockers. Have you decided which one to buy yet?

[OffroadTreks]

What is the tongue weight on that air stream ? Traditionally, Air Streams have been VERY well balanced with the perfect 10-15% of total weight at the hitch.

960lbs - one of the reasons I like it. I used to pull a Jayco. It might not have slides, but's simple and tows beautifully.

Ramv,
After looking at those pictures with two off road rigs on the same trailer, it sure makes me favor a tow rig with a diesel engine. So I'm wondering why you had a Super Duty on your list of choices, but not a Ram with a Cummins?

He kind of answered that,

Don't have the double car hauler anymore (was hard to maneuver, store.) Just have an 18' single car hauler (14klb GVWR) now, about 11k lb loaded with the 2nd gen, I seldom use it. One trip to Moab last year. When I use to tow the double car hauler 30-40 times a year, a diesel would have been really nice! (my old job didn't allow pickups, hence the Avalanche in the first place, was deciding between it and a diesel Excursion)

One of the things I like with the PW, is a set of sliders and the locker bypass are about the only must haves, (from what I am reading) while other pieces could be upgraded over time. Plus the aftermarket looks good.

Diesel is hard to bet for towing. But the PW is pretty hard to beat in the offroad department with zero work required. And it will still pull a load good enough on the weekend.

[FordyceCreekTrail]

I am in the same boat trying to make this major next leap. BTW I love my 05 Titan, but at the time it was class leading and innovative, the new roll out has been a flop with nothing class leading. Heck they even went backwards adding an old fashioned column shifter! (yeh I know the PW still has one) Now if they built the Warrior I would probably be in. That said I would not be caught dead in an Avalanche. The rigs you are looking at are so far beyond that thing its not even funny and clearly of your choices the F350 is a rig designed for a totally different purpose. Having 30yrs of wheeling under my belt I have never even considered lockers in high range, nor hassled with bead locks. With the patently absurd capability of the PW I could not imagine needing to air down that low ever.

I will add another plus item for the Raptor, technology, and its significant. My wife's 2015 TRD Pro 4-Runner is a Dinosaur and the PW is not far behind compared to the new F150.(flappy paddles, 360 cameras, spot lights, gauges, switches, blah, blah, blah)

I was absolutely convinced I was getting a Raptor for 2 years until I went to the car show a couple of weeks ago. The more I think about it and talk about it here the more I realize theoretically how much more practical the PW is, for both work and play. So why have I ignored it for years? I am realizing its 2 things, going from buying Japanese to the lowest reliability rated truck brand and the fact I could not stand how PW looked. Then all the sudden they roll out the new grill, bumpers, and cool retro graphics, not to mention a sexy orange color.................

Let me throw a couple of more issues at you. First, no one knows how the Raptor will be sold....If its allocation, then you get what you get when a dealer gets it, no ordering. That is no fun. I want my 50K rig the way I want it! With the PW they will take orders. Raptors were commanding 5-10K over sticker and probably will again for awhile, that means calling all over the US to find a reasonable dealer and flying there to pick up, what a PIA. Meanwhile the Chrome and Red grill drug lord 2016 PW was marked with 7K off I test drove this week.

Finally the 2017 Raptor is untested, trans, engine, ect. I am a little nervous about that. The new PW graphics probably wont need much testing to dial in.

[MoparToYou]

Just have an 18' single car hauler (14klb GVWR) now, about 11k lb loaded with the 2nd gen

I was thinking of this as well, not just the trailer with two rigs on it. 11K lbs hooked to a truck with an 8750 lb rated capacity? I'm pretty sure that is what my Power Wagon is rated at anyway. It would probably work fine, until you got in an accident, and your insurance company started looking at what you were towing. And for that matter, is an Avalanche rated to tow 11,000 lbs?

[OffroadTreks]

I was thinking of this as well, not just the trailer with two rigs on it. 11K lbs hooked to a truck with an 8750 lb rated capacity? I'm pretty sure that is what my Power Wagon is rated at anyway. It would probably work fine, until you got in an accident, and your insurance company started looking at what you were towing. And for that matter, is an Avalanche rated to tow 11,000 lbs?

OMG, the dreaded legal worry. That is not going to happen. Second you just listed your GVWR, not your towing capacity.

[ramv]

Avalanche 2500 is rated to tow 12,000 lb, gross of 19,000lb with 4.10s.

MFG rated tow rating isn't a legal rating except to the internet police. (Unless you are over 26 k lb, and into commercial territory.) At work we registered our F-350 pickups over 50,000 lb combined. Ford doesn't rate them that high but the DOT is happy. We port a few times a day with no issues.

[ramv]

BTW I love my 05 Titan, but at the time it was class leading and innovative, the new roll out has been a flop with nothing class leading. Heck they even went backwards adding an old fashioned column shifter! (yeh I know the PW still has one) Now if they built the Warrior I would probably be in. That said I would not be caught dead in an Avalanche.

I considered the Armada in 2005.... The weaker drivetrain compared to the Avalanche/Suburban 2500 or Excursion made it a no go.

[FordyceCreekTrail]

As much as I like the Titan, I also bought an Xterra and it was a POS. And the Armada has apparently a horrific reputation....