About to pull the trigger on a 15 PW, need some advice!

[nfb]

Hey everybody. Well I've been lurking here for the past couple years, coveting your rigs and wishing I could find a deal within my budget. I'm an avid camper and part-time wheeling enthusiast. My current ride is a 2013 QC 1500 with 35s, Rancho level kit, and Iron Cross winch bumper. It has the 5.7, 3.55:1, and open diffs, which along with the IFS makes it one of the most frustrating trucks to take into mud, sand, rocks, or anything other than level, smooth ground . Here in central NM, PW's are not exactly common, so finding a used one has proved to be difficult. I almost snatched up a 2011, but they were asking too much for the condition the truck was in. I've toyed with ordering a tradesman which would almost be in my price range, but I came across a deal at CarMax by chance that caught my eye.

The Truck

2015 SLT $39.9K
28xxx miles
Blue ext
Brown int
Rambox
8.4 nav screen
Heated seats/steering wheel
Vinyl floors

basically all the options I want in a PW, for a price I can manage. The truck is super clean, except for a little bit of light trail-pinstriping. Inside has a slight smoke odor from the original owner, but my gf barely noticed it, and she's the one with the sensitive nose. The 4wd engages smoothly, and the lockers engaged in about 3 seconds. The smart bar disconnected and reconnected smoothly, and looked to be in good shape. I got pre-approved from my CU, and they value the truck at closer to $47K. I'm looking for a truck to last me the next 15-20 years, and I'm hoping this is it. So yeah, I'm already biased and I'm looking at this deal with rose-colored lenses. But can anyone here give me their opinion. The mileage scares me. I've never put 30K miles on a vehicle in a year, and to me it is a red flag. What do you all think? There is some light surface rust on the undercarriage, mostly the skid plates and exhaust. I'm already planning on scrubbing and fluid-filming the bottom of whatever I get. NM is pretty dry, but I'm the paranoid type.
What do you all think? Is this a good deal or am I falling in love with a turd? I'm going back today or tomorrow to look at it again, so what should I ask? What should I check. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Bill2014]

Here's what nadaguides.com has to say about the value:

Looks like a great deal if everything works...


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[israelstanage]

I have 28,000 miles on my 2015 SLT. Some of us just drive more than others. Probably mostly highway miles. Do your homework and make an informed decision. Major stuff is still under warranty. Hope it works out.

[RustyPW]

Everything works like you said. Did you check the winch? 28,000 miles sounds like a lot of highway miles. Not bad. Look under the PW at the skid plates. See if they are marked up, dented. That will tell the story if it off-roaded hard.

[adeluca73]

Well, I have 30K miles on mine and it's about 18 months old. The 15's basically came out coincident with the 14's. I took delivery of my 14 and the dealer had his own 15 enroute a week later, so that truck could be well over a year old in actual ownership time, not goofy car year decrement time. That many miles indicates maybe a lot of highway, trailer towing miles, and probably didn't leave much time to trash it off road. Since you've checked the lockers and T-case, check the winch (free spool, and then hook it to something rigid and wind it in under load of the truck in neutral), look under it again and see if there's caked on mud/red dirt underneath the skids, up around the top of the tranny, and inside the radius arms housing. If so, then it was probably bashed a few times, or taken at high speeds across open dirt runs. But, shoot, it's within budget, and a bit below market. Go in there with it completely financed on your own, basically cash in hand, and see if they'll take $35K, won't hurt to ask.

[14PowerWaggy]

Looks like a great deal... Still under bumper to bumper and powertrain warranty... I'd ask for the Carfax on it to see if its been in any accidents or if it has been taken in to the dealer for any issues... Will also let you know where the truck is originally from... If it all checks out I'd be all over it... You won't regret owning a Power Wagon...

[Reloaderguy]

How come I love every blue color Ram produces? True Blue Pearlcoat is awesome. That truck looks clean, the miles are kind of high but not out of this world.

[nfb]

Thank you all for the replies. It's weird, I've been lurking on here so long, actually getting replies and from posters I recognize is trippy. Well I went back, and checked everything that was mentioned. It all looked great. And hearing multiple people justify the mileage was all the motivation I needed. So I brought that sexy bitch home last night. I all but spent the night in it. I'm in L-word with this truck. That's right, I Lesbians this truck.

Today after work I jumped in, and decided to go play in the desert near my house where there is sand and lava rocks galore (Petroglyph National Monument). Mostly I was in 2wd just appreciating finally having an lsd. I finally came to a decent hill with sand and basketball-sized rocks scattered that actually called for 4wd. So, 4hi, not lockers, sway bar disconnected. 30 seconds in, my dash lights up like a X-mas tree telling me "Transmission Too Hot". The gauge only read 190 trans temp though, which seems within normal limits to me. I ease it the rest of way, disengage 4wd, park, and crawl underneath. I found what is to me at least, a leak big enough to be taken very seriously. See pictures. The pictures were taken just now, and do not look quite as bad as when I first looked. There are also drips on my driveway that I am certain were not there this morning. Anyways, I limped to Carmax with the temp fluctuating between 166 to 170 the whole way where being 5:15, no techs were available for comment. The other staff was kind enough to make me an appointment at my local Ram dealer to drop the truck off in the AM. So I will be walking in at 0800 with my CarMax 30 day warranty, and my 36K mile warranty to politely ask what the fuck is up. Why is my transmission leaking? Why is it running so hot under such a light work load that I'm getting warnings? And since I'm paranoid now, I noticed what seems like a lot of fore and aft movement in the 4wd shifter when I accelrate. Its been so long since I had one on the floor I don't remember what normal looks like. We'll see what happens. Worst case, it was fun while it lasted. Any of you PW veterans have any insight?

[Pit Slave]

Use the 36k warranty and have them get you a brand new transmission, not a rebuild.

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[Colibri]

Well shit, sorry to hear that man. I hope they get you taken care of without any drama.

[Colibri]

What he said %110 ^^^^^

[olyelr]

Well dangit already.

That looks like motor oil to me, not trans fluid.

Also, 160 to 170 is what i would call normal operating temps. Almost sounds cold actually.

But regardless leaking oil and a dash lit up is certainly a big red flag this early in the game.

Best of luck!

[RustyPW]

Crap! That's not the way you want to start out. 160-170 is about normal.

[adeluca73]

Hmm, sorry seems hollow, especially since we've been goading you into getting it. Well you didn't run the truck hard or long enough to heat up the tranny to danger levels. So in order for the lights and warnings to sound, you 1. didn't have enough fluid in the t-case or tranny to absorb/dissipate the standard heat generated, which is from a poor service or a leak, 2. the temp sensor is bad, 3. there's a malfunction in your trans, which fortunately for you, should be covered free under the warranty,and if the dealer is half decent, you should also get a loaner while they do the replacement. So at the worst, you'll have a truck with a new tranny soon.

[coder]

Definitely looks like motor oil the mopar ATF +4 tranny fluid is very red, you are still covered under the factory warranty so I wouldn't worry they will get it taken care of....

[nfb]

Well...the fluid is almost certainly motor oil. I took a look this morning with better light, and it's definitely not transmission fluid. Transmission fluid after warming it up and shifting through 4 hi and lo was nice and full. Engine oil was actually a good inch over the full line. On the way to the dealer I decided to verify what I saw yesterday so I found a dirt hill and went up it in 2wd, 4hi, and 4low. Then once more in 4hi trying to duplicate my driving yesterday. Sure enough when I tried going super slow until the nannies kicked in and then trying to fight them, I got the same warning. This time at 176 degrees (picture).

I'm also getting a little paranoid about the amount of movement in the floor shifter when I accelerate. I expect a little, but it seems to be punching to the rear of the vehicle by at least an inch every time I hit the gas.

So I just dropped it at the Dodge dealer. They echoed that it should all be covered either under the manufacturer warranty or CarMax's. To me it sounds like multiple problems. Whatever is letting motor oil leak down and pool on the transmission, and the temperature sensor on the transmission. But I've waited years to get a PW, I can wait a little longer. I'll keep y'all updated.

[cruz]

On the positive side you are lucky it happened right off the bat. If you do decide to call off the deal, now's the perfect time to return it. Best of luck and keep us posted.

[Pit Slave]

That is not right. It sounds like they had put in 2 or 3 quarts over in the engine. Have them drain the oil and replace it with the correct amount. Putting too much oil in the engine will quiet down any noise in it, if there is a potential problem with the engine. Overheating on the transmission may just be too much oil in the engine, believe it or not. Had a similar situation like this and it turned out they never drained the oil and only added 5 quarts more. The engine started to overheat.

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[gone2]

My floor shifter moves quite a bit under acceleration, and so did my '07's; I would say its normal.

[coder]

All these issues could be related to an overfill of motor oil, overheating, leaking oil, sensors freaking out, fortunately there's an easy way to find out, drain and refill and some engine degreaser, then see if it all clears up. Even if the dealer won't do it I would do it myself for peace of mind. Let us know how it goes, good luck!

[nfb]

Sorry for the delay, got the truck back yesterday evening, but I live in Albuquerque so last night I was obligated to go downtown drink whiskey and cheer on Holly Holm...and then hope there wasn't a riot when she lost.

Ok so it sounds like the leak is from a bad oil pan gasket, so that's on order. Makes sense for where it's pooling I guess.

The technician couldn't duplicate the warning message after two attempts despite me explaining the almost identical situations where I was able to. This along with the fact that the warning has not been accompanied by the truck going into limp mode leads me to suspect a software issue actually. Possibly the pcm? I know I'm due for a software update, so I'm going to schedule that.

The floor shifter was in fact just me being paranoid. I've asked a few other people, and they all say the same. So I got that going for me which is nice.

I agree that the overfilled oil is probably a factor here, so I plan on changing it and seeing if it helps. Who knows, it could be the source of it all like a couple of you have mentioned.

So I'm cautiously optimistic at this point. I mean the truck drives like a dream despite these problems, and I'm hoping that fixing them is as simple as an oil change, new gasket, and updating the fancy computer. I will probably do a little more strenuous testing after I try those interventions just because I want to find any and all quirks before my warranties run out. Yeah...that's the only reason, science. It's not playing if you record data while you do it.

[Travis104]

I just picked up a 15 PW last weekend, and mine has 43k. It also seemed to me that they were mostly highway miles, and the hook was never even put on the winch cable.
I noticed a leak in the output shaft seal on the transfer case. It was replaced under warranty, but you may also want to check and see if it would happen to be leaking also. It's right where the rear driveshaft goes into the transfer case.
Good luck on getting your truck squared away, they do seem like fun vehicles so far.

[azracer]

There should be no warning @176 for a transmission. I have my Areoforce gauge set to alert me at 200 and even that is not too hot. I think the factory idiot light for the transmission in my 3G sets off at 220. Your water temp is a bit high but not overheating yet. Something odd is going on for sure. A reflash might fix it.

See the chart
http://www.txchange.com/heatchrt.htm

Are you sure the alarms aren't due to the traction and stability control not being happy?

IMHO The highest safe temperature for your transmission is 200 degrees. I was taught that for every 20 degrees past 200, the lifespan of your transmission is reduced by a factor of 2. In other words, if you hit 220 degrees, you can expect to get about half the normal life out of your transmission. At 240 degrees, your transmission will last about 1/4 the time that it should. And if you get up to 260 degrees, you are down to 1/8 the normal life.

[Snowsled]

There should be no warning @176 for a transmission. I have my Areoforce gauge set to alert me at 200 and even that is not too hot. I think the factory idiot light for the transmission in my 3G sets off at 220. Your water temp is a bit high but not overheating yet. Something odd is going on for sure. A reflash might fix it.

See the chart
http://www.txchange.com/heatchrt.htm

Are you sure the alarms aren't due to the traction and stability control not being happy?

IMHO The highest safe temperature for your transmission is 200 degrees. I was taught that for every 20 degrees past 200, the lifespan of your transmission is reduced by a factor of 2. In other words, if you hit 220 degrees, you can expect to get about half the normal life out of your transmission. At 240 degrees, your transmission will last about 1/4 the time that it should. And if you get up to 260 degrees, you are down to 1/8 the normal life.

Is this something specific to the 66RFE? Transmissions, just a few years back and for decades before that were cooled with a heat exchanger in the radiator. Ever since the advent of emissions controls coolant temps have been set to run ~200 degrees. My experience is that transmission used to run 200-240 all the time. My 460 A4OD motorhome towing would run 220 for days, and did so for years. My 48re Cummins trucks pulling a load would run 220, some with the Allison in the Chevys I had. The only trans failure I ever had in about a million miles of running was in an '03 Dodge when the fan clutch went gunny bag and the trans quickly got hot because he was hauling a good load.

I was shocked to see how low the trans tempo was on my new truck. I had been in manuals for a while and not had a trans temp gauge to watch. I am also pretty sure the synthetic fluid is probably good for 300 degrees so I have a hard time with those numbers. They don't jibe with my experience.

I think it is great that the trans and engine coolant circuits are divorced. I suspect there is truth to the trans living longer at 170 and, maybe that is why they made the change. I know the trans temp is super stable in my truck. I can't imagine it ever getting to 200.

The light going off at that temp is a glitch somewhere. Good chance the gauge and idiot light read from different sources and one of them is failed. My bet is on the idiot light being wrong because the temps in the pic looks pretty normal to me.

[RustyPW]

Years ago. Tranny temps, you didn't start to worry until the temps got over 220F, then panic at 260F. Now normal is around 170F to 200F. Panic at 220F. I have a deep pan (holds an extra 3 quarts), a 1ton cooler, plus a AutoMeter gauge that is plugged into my pan. So I know what my temps are. My temps are normally about 80 to 100deg above ambient temperature. When I was towing a 10,000 camper. I would see temps high as 250F.

Here's a google search.
https://www.google.com/search?q=transmi ... 3&ie=UTF-8