Shocks & Bags

[Ducky's Dad]

It's time for new shocks on my '05 QC auto. Suspension is stock and will stay that way (mostly). Wheels are H2 with 35" Toyo AT2s. I don't tow, except in emergencies. Truck is overweight because of all the stuff I carry, plus triple batteries, OBA, 50qt frig, two tool boxes, shell, roof rack, water tank, Hi-Lift, lights, etc. Truck is not a daily driver, but sees a lot of highway pavement on the way to its offroad assignments for hunting trips. Rear end is riding low, maybe 1", because of the weight in back. Truck is coming up on 50M on original shocks, no death wobble or steering pull. I drive fairly briskly offroad, mostly farm roads, desert and fields. Very little rock crawling, some snow and occasional nasty mud.

I have talked with 8Lug, Carli, KORE, Strapt, CJC, looked at several other web sites, and have a call in to Thuren. I think I have almost settled on a set of Firestone bags with DayStar cradles for the rear, with schrader valves for inflation by air hose, nothing automatic. Shocks will probably be Fox 2.0, but I have not decided between monotube or remote reservoir. Budget is a factor, and the monotube setup parts will run about $1,000, with the reservoir setup adding another $300 or so, plus 9% tax if I get the stuff locally.

In my calls, Carli was by far the most helpful. Not sure who I spoke with at Carli (sounded like it might have been Sage his own self), but he told me that their stuff was not right for my application. The Commuter shocks are too soft and the BackCountrys are designed to work with their coils. Their long travel bag setup is overkill for my use and costs triple what a system from Firestone, Goodyear or AirRide would cost. Recommended the DayStar bag cradles to maintain articulation with the PW spring pack. Recommended against helper springs because they won't solve my sagging problem. Recommended against regular 2500 Hemi or Diesel spring packs because it would hamper articulation. They like the standard catalog Fox 2.0 (no special valving) in either persuasion because they are rebuildable and seem to work better than the comparable Bilsteins. Recommended against the Bilstein 7100s because of fitment issues related to the odd angle of the reservoir tube at the top of the shocks. Think 5100s are too soft, and the 5160s are about as good as the Fox 2.0 reservoirs but not rebuildable. No info from Thuren yet, but their website does not have any usable detail and I want more info about their Overland shocks, may be a real bargain at $300/set.
Waiting for callbacks from CJC and 8Lug re price and immediate availability of the Firestone/DayStar/Fox combos.

Some that I spoke with suggested a block or long shackles to raise the rear, but that is a bandaid and also aggravates the axle wrap problem in deep sand. Some suggested new coils and spring packs, but that is not in the budget and not necessary.

I have read everything here in the shock link thread and the links, and have poked around on other forums. Given the assembled wisdom here, does any body have any cautions or suggestions about the proposed setup, for my truck and my driving situations? Any other solutions that fit into the $1,000+/- budget? Thanks in advance.

[Cactus Red]

Daystar/Firestone is a no brainer. Works flawlessly. I'm at 8k and about 1" down in the back, so I run 10 psi to level the truck. No appreciable change in ride quality. They also helped reduce axle hop in sand - perhaps it's a little more spring rate. They also act as very effective bump stops.

Shock wise, I'm leaning heavily towards the Fox 2.0 at this point. I've had my chat with Don, and will at some point order his shocks. They will fit a stock PW, but that's as much lift as they can take, especially the rear shocks. However, they will exceed your (and mine at the moment) budget.

I have spoken to Fox directly about their off the shelf units, and they confirmed all Dodge 2500 shocks are diesel valved. That should be OK at our weight. We have a set of the 2.0 on the JKUR, and they do a very nice job offroad. A tad bit harsher on pavement tho.

At the street prices I've seen, you should be able to do both the bags and Fox non resv for just slightly more than a grand. Add tax and shipping and that will push it to 1200 or more.

The 5100's survived 70k of abuse. Can't say anything bad about them, but the Fox's are definitely a step up for not a lot more $$$.

Mark

Dennis Miller "You can't order black coffee anymore. It's un-creamed..."

[GunniPWguy]

Would like to know how it works out. Thinking I will need to go with the same set up (Airbags, cradles, Fox 2.0) soon. See a truck camper in my future.

[Ducky's Dad]

Spoke with Aaron at Thuren this morning. They have a lot of stuff that is not on the website and the website has not been updated since late 2014, but new site should be up in a couple of months. Aaron said their Overland shocks are not suitable for my situation, and advised against the Fox 2.0 monotubes (may not handle heat well enough compared to the 2.0 reservoirs at "only" $350 more). Recommended the Fox 2.0 reservoirs, either off-the-shelf valving (probably about $850-$900 depending on source) or preferably the Thuren-valved 2.0s at $1100. He would rather see me on Fox or King 2.5s but realizes that is way over the budget. Likes the idea of the Firestone bags with the DayStar cradle, said the cradle eliminates the need for a spacer with the bags on our trucks. Also recommended Boogie Bump stops for the front ($300) and/or a welded axle truss ($350 plus shipping and professional welding). They have seen broken front axle housings on PWs that are driven hard and fast. The Boogie Bumps will reduce the chance of that, so described as relatively cheap insurance. He also suggested that I make sure my Foxes have steel bodies, not aluminum. The Synergy Fox 2.0 reservoirs at CJC are listed as aluminum bodies, but I thought steel was standard on the reservoir shocks so need to investigate.

Addendum: Looked at the Fox website and all the 2.0 reservoirs listed for the PW are aluminum bodies. Called Fox and they told me that they do produce the 2.0 resi with steel body, but those are listed as universal fit shocks, so need to download their fit guide and see which universals with steel bodies will fit the PW. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems on the surface.

[azracer]

I would go with Thuren's Fox 2.0 steel bodies with resiviors. I think a truss will be overkill in your case (use common sense when doing spirited driving). But boogie bumps are a great addition and help immensely when getting close to or bottoming out. They dissipate a ton of energy before softly bottoming out. I have the DYSCO and they have made a huge difference for my use. The Daystar cradles and Firestone bags are a great option and make a limited capacity PW into a mule that will haul just about anything and do it nearly effortlessly.

The addition of the above components can get you into trouble real fast if you drive hard and have an awe shit moment. I think that is why Don suggests the Truss. It takes some practice to learn to read the terrain and get to know the limitations of your truck. That learning process comes with a real high risk of an awe shit moment. Just keep it sane and you will be fine w/o a truss.


.

[Ducky's Dad]

Does anybody know the actual stock shock lengths for a 3G PW? Compressed and Extended?

I have spent a bunch of time searching this and other forums without any definitive answers and Google did not turn up anything I can rely on. Spoke with Don Thuren on Thursday and he convinced me that I want his custom-tuned King 2.5s, but delivery is 4-6 weeks out and I need to do something right now to get truck ready for hunting season. My concern is over Don's comment that he thinks (he was driving at the time so no reference material) that the Fox 2.0s are about 1-1/2" shorter than the factory PW shocks, but the Kings are the right length. Not clear to me if the short Foxes are just the 2.0 monotubes or also the 2.0 resis, but Don was on his way out of town, so I can't clarify until Monday, even though I wanted to order shocks yesterday and get them on the UPS truck. If the Thuren Fox 2.0 resis are long enough, I'll order those and forget the Kings. Otherwise I may have to settle for the Thuren Overlands, because they are in stock and Don said they have plenty of length for a stock PW. Was hoping to get some good rebuildable resi shocks and be done with it, but it seems almost impossible to get good info on shocks.

Don did tell me that the springs in the PW are fine for my use and his tunes will work just great with the stock springs. Don told me that his Overland shocks are steel body and are built for him by Tenneco, same company that builds ProComp and Rancho. Carli rep told me (again) that their shocks probably won't work well with my springs because their shocks are tuned to work with Carli springs, but Carli spring rates are proprietary, so you pays your money and takes your choice.

[Cactus Red]

That's odd. Don assured me that the Fox's will work fine on a stock height PW. The rears are the shorter of the two, and he said the fronts would be OK with my 1" spacer. That makes me wonder a bit.

[Ducky's Dad]

We did not have an in-depth conversation because he was on the move and not in the shop, but my understanding is that any of the Fox 2.0s will work, but some work better than others. There are no part numbers or other info on the Thuren web site because they have not updated it for quite a while, so all I know is what I get on the phone and can't even place an order through the website. I do know that their Fox shocks are steel body, so that probably means they come from the Universal Fit portion of the Fox parts list. Even if I had part numbers for the Foxes, it would not do me much good without knowing the lengths of the factory shocks. The dealers such as Strapt, CJC, Kore, Carli, etc. do not provide a heck of a lot of info on the stuff they are selling and some do not even stock the stuff, they just place the order with Thuren or Carli or Synergy and have it drop shipped to you. I'm thinking it shouldn't be this hard to buy an appropriate set of quality, performance shocks for a truck with stock suspension. I hope to talk with Don on Monday, early enough to have my shocks on the UPS truck that afternoon.

[Cactus Red]

Let him know your on the PWR forum when you do. I urged him to sign up as a vendor here.

Dennis Miller "You can't order black coffee anymore. It's un-creamed..."

[Ducky's Dad]

Will do.

[cruz]

Here you go DD, rear shock off my '05 . The camera perspective makes it look different but the actual measurement eyelet center to center is , 28.5" extended - 17.5"compressed.

[Ducky's Dad]

Cruz, thanks. That's real close to what Don thought they were off the top of his head. He was thinking they were about 29", and that the Fox 2.0s are 27-1/2". So based on your factory shock, the Fox 2.0 will provide 1" less articulation. I'll have a more detailed discussion with Don on Monday. Will report back with whatever I learn.

What are you running in place of the stockers?

[cruz]

Rancho 9000 adjustables in the rear, fronts are the OEM Bilsteins . I put on the Ranchos when I got my camper to help with sway and for a decent ride when running without the camper.

[Ducky's Dad]

OK, I remember that now. Thanks.

[Mike-H]

Very interested in what you end up at and what Don has to say about the Fox. Wonder why he says no to the aluminum? Also I think the resi shocks have more travel. I posted this thread a little while back asking about shock lengths. http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... f=2&t=3246
I found a set of Fox 2.0 resi with adjustable comp/rebound, that looked to fit perfectly.

I had Fox 2.0 IPF on my work truck and they were great, but that truck carried an extra 1500 lbs. There was a break in period with the Fox shocks. The first few days they were harsh. After that they were nice. Wife already ok'ed the purchase, I'm just waiting till after vacation. She knows me, I wouldn't be happy if I cheaped out. But I also wanted to talk to Don or someone else about valving first.

It really is harder then it should be to buy shocks. Then again we are trying to get the most performance for our dollar and tailor our trucks to our driving style. Most here aren't just buying for looks.

[Ducky's Dad]

Wonder why he says no to the aluminum?

It is my understanding that once you wear through the anodizing on the inside of the shock tube, that set of shocks is on its last legs. Most people don't keep their trucks long enough for that to be a problem, but I'm keeping the PW forever. There is also an option for stainless steel rods for those who need them, mostly where there is a lot of salt used in the winter.

[Takingatrip1]

Question for you guys.

Im going to install air bags to assist in bearing the load of my FWC camper. I've read about the Firestone bags/daystar cradles .

1: Are we talking about the "ride rite" bags ?

2: what about this warning from Firestone about not using the daystar cradles ?


http://blog.truckspring.com/post/2014/0 ... r-bag-kits

[Cactus Red]

Legalese to cover their butt is what it is...

The combo works fine - so no worries on that.

Dennis Miller "You can't order black coffee anymore. It's un-creamed..."

[Takingatrip1]

Firestone 2299 Ride-Rite Air Bag Helper Springs

AND

Daystar KU09140BK

is this the combo ? or just Firestone 6401 Replacement Air Bag and the Cradle

[Ducky's Dad]

Firestone 2299 Ride-Rite Air Bag Helper Springs

AND

Daystar KU09140BK

That's what I'm planning to order tomorrow. Amazon has the best price I have found on the Daystar cradles, but Firestone 2299 prices are all over the board. The places that advertise the best prices don't have them in stock.

[Ducky's Dad]

Firestone 2299 Ride-Rite Air Bag Helper Springs

AND

Daystar KU09140BK

I did a little more poking around and found a good price on this setup, and actually in stock.

http://autoplicity.com/
SKU Name Price Quantity Total
FAI-2299 Firestone Airbags 2299 Ride-Rite Air Helper Spring Kit $289.82 1 $289.82
DAY-KU09140BK Daystar KU09140BK Air Bag Cradle $62.99 1 $62.99

I just placed my order. They ship from about six warehouses around the country, charge sales tax only to Illinois addresses, and shipping was under $9. Should be on the UPS truck today.

TakingaTrip1, I just noticed that you are in So Cal. Autoplicity told me that my order will ship from their Compton Warehouse, so transit time should be minimal. They had six sets of the Firestone bags in stock this morning.

[Ducky's Dad]

Just ordered shocks and front Boogie Bumps from Thuren. Shocks are Fox 2.0 reservoirs with Thuren's universal tune, which leans toward diesels. Don said would be perfect for my truck because of all the extra weight I'm carrying. Rear extended length is 28", same as factory Bilsteins, but compressed length is 1" shorter than stock so there is more travel than stock. Don said the front Foxes are perfect for the stock PW, no length issues. Best part is that they are on the shelf, ready to ship today.

I encouraged Don to get on here in the vendor section. He told me that his new web site will have a lot of the info that I have been chasing, including spring rates and shock lengths, so that should be a big improvement over what I have seen in the last couple of weeks.

[Cactus Red]

Awesome! I'll be waiting for your review.


Dennis Miller "You can't order black coffee anymore. It's un-creamed..."

[Mike-H]

Sounds great. I can't wait to read your impressions. Did you look at adding adjusters for dampening? If you don't mind me asking what was the damage for all four corners? I'm about to do at least the rear, if not all four myself.

[Ducky's Dad]

Did not look at any adjusters for dampening. Thuren shocks were $1100, front Boogies with bolt-in kit were $300, plus $30 shipping. Bag/cradle combo about $360 delivered.

I have decided to plumb the bags with separate Schrader valves for each side. I measured the truck with a full water tank and a full gas tank, and the right/rear with the water tank was 2" lower than the left.