Towing 10k lbs?

vanished · Post by **vanished** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:14 pm

Guys - any of you ever tow the full 10k+ our trucks are rated for? I'm used to 6-8k on a regular basis and always thought that was about my limit... I tried to hook it up to our living quarters trailer today and besides some significant drop (need some timbrens) I'm still a little concerned about engine/trans/rears and am on the fence on using it as a toy hauler or getting a dually.. Empty weight is 7k, ready to travel with my bike is around 10k and it's licensed for 14k.. Thoughts? Am I crazy or can the old wagon tow this monster?

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FirerescuePW · Post by **FirerescuePW** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:53 pm

Boy, did you just open a can of worms!

Big difference between CAN and SHOULD. Our trucks can pull a heck of a load under the right conditions. Flat-no problem. Hills- not a big deal. Mountains- better be prepped and maintained correctly. Where you live falls between hills and mountains. I've done all but real mountains with mine. I've never had a problem. I am only pulling a 30ft. camper with 7,700 GVW. Our trucks are rated for 10,550, give or take. The engine will scream a little but Hemis like the upper end anyway.

If your trailer is registered for 14,000, you could run into legal issues even if you are under weight. You would have to get caught for this to happen. But you don't want to get caught because you had an incident of some kind.

BTW, I just drove through your area this weekend on the way to my daughter's college. I thought about texting you again, but I was Wagonless. One of these days...

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Hemi46 · Post by **Hemi46** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:43 pm

I am looking into buying a fw toy hauler rated at 13050. That's dry weight. I think our trucks can pull it, like Firerescue said. Looking to see the comments on this.

bajaben48 · Post by **bajaben48** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:43 pm

I have towed 12000+. Granted ot was on for a few miles. My temp peaked out 225 and felt heavy but I never felt like I was "over doing it".

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Post by **Cactus Red** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:07 pm

If you decide to tow that heavy, something I personally wouldn't do with a 3/4T of any variety, diesel or hemi, instead of Timbrens, check out the Firestone Airbag/Daystar cradle combo.

Why wouldn't I use a 3/4T of that? Lack of sway control - that's what dually truck are made for. They are much more stable with that type of load. I see people towing what I consider to be unsafe loads all the time, and it really doesn't matter to me that you have the power to do so. Just because you have 800 Ft/Lbs of torque or 410 in a hemi is meaningless; it's can you do it safely is the big issue to me. I had two of my family (aunt and cousin) end up in intensive care after being sideswiped by a single up 1T that was towing a three car fifth wheel trailer. The truck and trailer whipped, slapped them into a center divider on the freeway. Hell of a mess...

TwinStick · Post by **TwinStick** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:33 am

I tow the max weight or close to it, everytime i pull our ToyHauler. 10,500 lbs. (6400 lb empty, 100 gal (in front of trailer axles)fresh water= 830 lb, 1200 lb of camping gear, 800 lb atv, 350 lb dirt bike + tools, 1250 Lb empty tongue weight). No idea what loaded tongue weight is but it is HEAVY. I do not always carry all of it. But i have the G56, high quality full synthetic fluids in everything & change my diffs, t-case & trans fluid every 10-15k. Fluids are NOT cheap anymore, but still cheaper than replacing diffs, t-case or trans. I installed a set of these: http://www.jegs.com/i/Hellwig/207/3510/ ... 7Aod_wYAug They work GREAT !!! Took care of all my issues with squat, porpoising & sway. I have no issues. Stock brakes SUCKED on my truck. I put these on: https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/morein ... cc=1441418 LOVE em. Stops WAY better than stock. All 4 rotors & pads about $480 to my door.

Never had an overheating issue with anything on the PW. But i still have this from my 04 2500 Hemi/auto: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/prm-1318/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/prm-188/overview/ ............I use it as a XHD engine oil cooler. Had this & a 1 ton 24 row trans cooler on my 04. NEVER EVEN CAME CLOSE to over heating while towing our camper. Pulled a loooooooong steep hill in Ky in 95* temp, temp gauge only went up the width of the needle on the gauge !!! Gas pedal was to the carpet, engine was screaming in 2nd. Heat is your enemy in engine, trans, t-case, diffs. For every 20* increase in temp over 175* in transmission, your fluid life is cut in half. Do it 2x & it is cut in half again...........& so on & so forth. http://www.mag-hytec.com/transmission.htm

Got to be on high alert when towing heavy. Have to plan your moves 3 moves in advance. Winds, cross winds, winds from passing semi-trucks can all move you out of your lane. The older semi-trucks push me 3-4' to the right when first passing me, then as the are 3/4 past you, they suck you back towards them. Kinda scary having your wheel turned to the right, yet still going left. Then after the suction lets you go, you gotta make sure you turn back quickly & smoothly enough to avoid going too far to the right again. It can be scary sometimes. My trailer pulls the best when fully loaded & is horrible empty. That is the nature of toyhaulers, (or at least mine) when you can have a 3500 lb weight difference between empty & loaded. I would NOT pull over the trucks limits. Legal issues WILL follow, if in an accident, even if you do not think it was your fault. You are at fault...by default...because you exceeded your trucks capacity & are therefore operating in an unsafe manner & illegally.

Just sayin' !!!

Friend of mine just bought this one: http://www.jayco.com/products/toy-haulers/2014-seismic/ 43' long, triple axle Load Range E tires, 13.5' tall, 8' wide !!!!!

-over ? I would NOT want to pull that !!! He has a F-350, CC SRW, 6.7 diesel. It is about 5000+ lbs over the max weight of his truck. 16,900 lbs empty, 19,900 lbs loaded. I told him he needs a F-450 or bigger for Ford or a 1 ton dually Dodge (i think they are rated at 30,000 lbs GCVW). He said he is NOT going to get a new truck to pull it.

I wish him the best of luck with it.

R0NAN · Post by **R0NAN** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:34 am

I also am mildly concerned as I have a toy hauler that is about 9500 lbs completely loaded. The plan is to get some carli air bags. The quads load on a deck at the front of the trailer. The tongue weight dry is 650lbs and I'm not sure about loaded. The water and fuel are at the back so I'm hoping it helps balance out the weight of the quads.I guess I'll find out when I get my trailer out of storage and scale it. The equalizer hitch should help and I may have to get the trailer sway bar... Although I didn't seem to need the sway bar with my last truck.
1: Can anyone chime in on how effective the tow haul mode is with the power wagons gas engine?
Also, I wanted to use my tekonsha p3 brake controller but can't seem to locate one of the plugs under the dash. Wiring for brake controllers changed in '13 and the video for '13 tekonsha install is for rams without the oem controller, which I have. I think that is why I can't find the missing plug. So I plan on selling it and use the controller that came with it..... Which leads me to this question. 2: How does the oem brake controller work in the power wagon? Are any of you dissatisfied with its performance? The tekonsha p3 is beautiful as it has a boost feature which activates the trailer brakes just ahead of the truck brakes which is nice for heavy hauling.

R0NAN · Post by **R0NAN** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:10 am

Hemi46 wrote:I am looking into buying a fw toy hauler rated at 13050. That's dry weight. I think our trucks can pull it, like Firerescue said. Looking to see the comments on this.

I think that is way to much weight for a power wagon.... Especially dry weight. Add your 6" lift to the equation and it is flat out dangerous. Pulling it is gonna be very difficult but still not the main issue. The tail will be waging the dog. Having control of the trailer is gonna be impossible to do safely. I sure don't wanna be near ya on the road... That's for sure.

Will · Post by **Will** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:31 am

I agree with Twinstick. In my work, I've pulled many different loads but not campers or big box trailers. There's much more to it other than can I pull it. It's can you pull it safely and legally. I know here in the Southeastern states, you will get busted if over the limit or if you don't have all your ducks in a row. We have just about as many DOT patrol cars as highway patrol and those guys know from experience what to look for.

Overall I love how it pulls but I've never owned anything that was made for pulling like a dually 1 ton so I could just not know... The Tow/Haul and the factory trailer brake work well in my mind for stopping. The Tow/Haul changes the transmission to downshift when slowing down with the auto (for those that don't know). That and the trailer brake, I can easily stop a dual axle with a back hoe but if I hauled on a regular bases I would get a higher ply tire and possible think about a rear sway bar for added stability. The right dip in the right curve will let you know it.

For what it's worth..

vanished · Post by **vanished** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:04 am

Guys - thanks for all the responses! I'll try to address/comment... I'll preface this by stating that I wouldn't plan to pull this often or long and am sorta 'stuck' with it for now (long story) so rather than just let it sit (we don't have horses anymore) that I was thinking of using it as toy hauler (I already have a regular bumper pull camper as well).

First I'm really thinking I won't be over weight (or not much, maybe on GVWR a little - payload is almost 2k and about same pin I'm guessing on the truck but under GCWVR when hooked together.. Loaded up for the trip would put me just under or at the 10,750 tow limit for the truck so I think I'm sorta legal (addressing Mike's concern) but should be able to get the combo higher class weight stick (currently class 3) although I do recall some gray areas on this from previous investigatation, even with the state police..

I also wouldn't consider towing the 12k+ dry type trailers (this should be 7-8k dry keep in mind) so sorry Hemi46 but I think thats too much for our trucks.. Regarding stability I agree dually is always nicer (we towed this same trailer with a dodge 3500 dually diesel previously) but with it's wide track (8' box) and balance it does tow nicely down the road so i'm not overly concerned (as well since most new 3500 SRW's could easily handle this)... but yes, dually's are better I admit

Twinstick - good advice and information.. I agree if I was planning on setting mine to tow this for years or thousands of miles I wouldn't be having this conversation at all, but you certainly have taken all the right precautions!

Some sound advice.. I like the helwig idea and I agree your buddy is a little nuts. Same as you I'm trying to keep mine 'legal' as can be..

Ronan sorry but never played with the 4G's - others can chime in I'm sure.. I also have a tekonsha in my 3G and have wired many of them for brakes (usually pretty easy with big blue clip) but guessing the new ones are different..

I think my biggest concern is the engine/tranny/brakes in this area as it is quite mountainous.. Even being under max tow limit I'm thinking my truck might not like it much (let alone MPG's!!) and I just don't want to abuse it and end up with a new engine or tranny (545rfe). I have towed with this truck alot at the 8k+ range (dump trailer), 3 horse slant (6k+), camper (6k+) and am not afraid to let the hemi roar but just nervous getting on the max limits..

wagonfarmer · Post by **wagonfarmer** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:32 am

One concern I have is with the 9400 lb bumper pull trailer. I could be wrong, but am pretty sure there are no hitches made for our trucks rated to pull that much weight unless you with a 5th wheel or goose neck.

R0NAN · Post by **R0NAN** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:23 am

wagonfarmer wrote:One concern I have is with the 9400 lb bumper pull trailer. I could be wrong, but am pretty sure there are no hitches made for our trucks rated to pull that much weight unless you with a 5th wheel or goose neck.

The 2.5 " receiver on the pw is rated at 17000 lbs pull/ tongue?likely around 1700 lbs. My WD hitch is rated at 10000 pull/ 1000 lbs tongue. When it scale it this spring I'll determine if I need to upgrade my hitch to something beefier based on my tongue weight.
The limiting factor on power wagons is the off road suspension... Otherwise it would be the same or similar to other hd 2500's.

Hemi46 · Post by **Hemi46** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:31 am

I have been thinking the toy hauler was too much. Oh well just a thought, it was nice though.

SheepdogOutdoorsman · Post by **SheepdogOutdoorsman** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:48 am

The biggest limiting factor for any hitch is the ball. Most only go to 8,000lbs ... It is possible to find 10,000, but anything over that and you'll need a gooseneck.

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JBM Power Wagon · Post by **JBM Power Wagon** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:44 pm

R0NAN wrote:I also am mildly concerned as I have a toy hauler that is about 9500 lbs completely loaded. The plan is to get some carli air bags. The quads load on a deck at the front of the trailer. The tongue weight dry is 650lbs and I'm not sure about loaded. The water and fuel are at the back so I'm hoping it helps balance out the weight of the quads.I guess I'll find out when I get my trailer out of storage and scale it. The equalizer hitch should help and I may have to get the trailer sway bar... Although I didn't seem to need the sway bar with my last truck.
1: Can anyone chime in on how effective the tow haul mode is with the power wagons gas engine?
Also, I wanted to use my tekonsha p3 brake controller but can't seem to locate one of the plugs under the dash. Wiring for brake controllers changed in '13 and the video for '13 tekonsha install is for rams without the oem controller, which I have. I think that is why I can't find the missing plug. So I plan on selling it and use the controller that came with it..... Which leads me to this question. 2: How does the oem brake controller work in the power wagon? Are any of you dissatisfied with its performance? The tekonsha p3 is beautiful as it has a boost feature which activates the trailer brakes just ahead of the truck brakes which is nice for heavy hauling.

With my 2011 I tow a 30' (hitch to bumper) travel trailer that is 6500lbs dry and around 8,000lbs fully loaded. On some camping trips I also have my quad, my kids mini quad, a generator, extra fuel, chainsaw and other stuff all loaded in my bed. Like Twinstick I have the Hellwig's.

For me the tow/haul works pretty good. In hilly or windy conditions when the truck starts to shift gears a lot it will start to hold the gear longer. And when going downhill it will downshift when you tap on the breaks. I have also had good performance out of the factory trailer brake controller.

TwinStick · Post by **TwinStick** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:03 pm

R0NAN wrote:
wagonfarmer wrote:One concern I have is with the 9400 lb bumper pull trailer. I could be wrong, but am pretty sure there are no hitches made for our trucks rated to pull that much weight unless you with a 5th wheel or goose neck.
The 2.5 " receiver on the pw is rated at 17000 lbs pull/ tongue?likely around 1700 lbs. My WD hitch is rated at 10000 pull/ 1000 lbs tongue. When it scale it this spring I'll determine if I need to upgrade my hitch to something beefier based on my tongue weight.
The limiting factor on power wagons is the off road suspension... Otherwise it would be the same or similar to other hd 2500's.

Not sure about 4th Gens. 3rd Gens have a Class III/4 hitch that is 2" inside dia square. It is called a Class III/4 receiver or 2"receiver hitch. My hitch that is inserted into the Class III/4 receiver is rated at either 1200 lb tongue weight/12,000 GVW or 1400/14,000. But more than the trailer's GVWR. Mine is solid steel. http://www.reeseprod.com/content/produc ... part=66084

I did not know the new PW's had 2.5" hitch. That is cool.

Also, hitch balls can vary GREATLY. I have seen China made ones that are super dangerous. Have to pay attention. Just because it has a 2" or 2 5/16" ball (which is what bigger trailers have) does not mean it is rated to pull that kind of weight. Here is an example: http://www.mscdirect.com/product/detail ... m=56427511

You would think a 2" ball would carry more than 3500 lbs, right ? Well, they can. The shank dia is VERY IMPORTANT. IT, defines the weight capacity. Here is a hitch with the same size 2" ball but with a 1 1/4" shank dia. . http://www.mscdirect.com/product/detail ... m=56427628

HUGE difference in capacity. Also, this is one area where i say, find one that is Made in America, if you can. My hitch stuff for my camper is all Reese & Made in America.

wagonfarmer · Post by **wagonfarmer** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:31 pm

R0NAN wrote:
wagonfarmer wrote:One concern I have is with the 9400 lb bumper pull trailer. I could be wrong, but am pretty sure there are no hitches made for our trucks rated to pull that much weight unless you with a 5th wheel or goose neck.
The 2.5 " receiver on the pw is rated at 17000 lbs pull/ tongue?likely around 1700 lbs. My WD hitch is rated at 10000 pull/ 1000 lbs tongue. When it scale it this spring I'll determine if I need to upgrade my hitch to something beefier based on my tongue weight.
The limiting factor on power wagons is the off road suspension... Otherwise it would be the same or similar to other hd 2500's.

Thanks for the correction. I did not know that.

Hemi46 · Post by **Hemi46** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:07 pm

I went a little over board with mine, the male drop down is rated at 20000lbs and the ball is also rated at 20000lbs. I wanted to make sure it wouldn't fail on me going down the road.

TwinStick · Post by **TwinStick** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:43 pm

Damn....what did you get & where did you get it ????

Hemi46 · Post by **Hemi46** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:54 pm

I bought the drop down at the rv dealer and the ball at a heavy equipment place in Longview TX.

vanished · Post by **vanished** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:00 pm

Sounds like TwinStick is the only other heavy hauler - thanks guys for the feedback!

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05PWrockcrawler · Post by **05PWrockcrawler** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:35 pm

I use to haul 8,000 lbs with my truck with my trailer and crawler on it all the time.

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Post by **myoung84** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:13 pm

I wouldn't think twice about pulling 10k with my truck. The 2500 Hemi with 4.10s is rated somewhere around 12k I think. Now my 1500 that I ordered is rated around 10k lbs. No way in hell I'd ever put that much weight behind a 1500. 7500 lbs would be my limit with that truck.

05PWrockcrawler · Post by **05PWrockcrawler** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:51 am

I don't want to hear anymore about your new truck lol

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Post by **myoung84** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:38 am

Lol. I deserve that. Haha

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