Axle hop in snow

[bones]

I've had this problem since my first Dodge in 2001 up to my 2013. How does anyone get anywhere in the snow without ripping up your drivetrain? I can barely touch the throttle and I'm almost shaking the tires right off. Will tire air down overcome alot of this or is there really nothing to be done beyond suspension upgrades?

If I am in deep snow, I want to be able to mat it and just go, let the tires do the digging and keep pulling. Instead I have to baby it, get stuck, back up, baby it some more, etc.

[leo72987]

It's funny I was just complaining about this same thing!! If you look above at the post about 2005 Dodge powerwagon wheel hop there are a bunch of guys in there discussing it with me. We're pretty much talking about improving snow performance and such.

[08TwinStickPW]

Are you guys still running the OE BFG AT tires?

I noticed mine did it something bad with the AT's, I don't notice it as much with the MT's (they tend to dig/clean out more to where there is more of a digging action than ridding up on top, break through, on top, break through action).

My old 1500 was real bad at wheel hop off road in snow....even when I had 1,000 lbs in the bed (cooper Zeon LTZ tires)

[bones]

I am not running the OE tires, they are not the cause. This happened on all my Dodge trucks from '01 to now. Its the suspension and it sucks. I am running 35x12.5-17 Hankook MT's studded for snow/ice.

[TwinStick]

The wheel hop is something that is a by-product of a soft, flexy suspension & soft shocks. Options include ladder type bars---but they hinder ground clearance & flex. Stiffer leaf springs, coils & shocks---but that will defeat the purpose of having a Power Wagon & it's soft flexy suspension. I have Cooper STT's for winter. I also get mad wheel hop. The ticket for me & my particular G56 truck is, 4th or 5th gear Lo range & LOTS of throttle. When my tires are spinning fast, i dont seem to get the wheel hop. This may not be possible with an auto, IDK. I hate the wheel hop also.

[bones]

I found a thread over on DT where Lkelly installed the Hellwig traction control springs and it seemed to help really well. I'm not concerned with losing flex, as I don't even wheel anymore. My main reason for the PW is the capability it has to self recover with the winch, and for the lockers. So losing some flex is ok with me.

[JBM Power Wagon]

I found a thread over on DT where Lkelly installed the Hellwig traction control springs and it seemed to help really well. I'm not concerned with losing flex, as I don't even wheel anymore. My main reason for the PW is the capability it has to self recover with the winch, and for the lockers. So losing some flex is ok with me.

I put Hellwig's on mine last summer and early this winter when I hit some deep, drifted snow, without the tires aired down, I still had axle hop.

Honestly, trying playing around with different air pressure and see if you can find a sweet spot that works well for you.

[LKelly]

As others have said, airing down will provide the biggest improvement in snow - both in preventing hopping, and in overall traction. The springs I installed helped, but I still combine it with lower tire pressure for the best effect.

Earlier this winter I tried different tire pressures, all the way down to 10psi front/5psi rear - and even though I lost clearance with lower pressures, I still saw traction improvement with each 5psi pressure drop. At 10/5psi I was pushing a *lot* of snow - not only with the axles but even with the smartbar & front bumper - and I still got around better than I did at 20psi when I had a lot more clearance and wasn't pushing as much snow around. I had some pics and was going to write a post about it, but I've been too busy to get to it.

So, my recommendation would definitely be to air down - it's free and makes a huge improvement in wheelhop and traction. Depending on the consistency of the snow, I'd expect the hopping to stop somewhere in the 15-25psi range on the rear tires.

[bones]

As others have said, airing down will provide the biggest improvement in snow - both in preventing hopping, and in overall traction. The springs I installed helped, but I still combine it with lower tire pressure for the best effect.

Earlier this winter I tried different tire pressures, all the way down to 10psi front/5psi rear - and even though I lost clearance with lower pressures, I still saw traction improvement with each 5psi pressure drop. At 10/5psi I was pushing a *lot* of snow - not only with the axles but even with the smartbar & front bumper - and I still got around better than I did at 20psi when I had a lot more clearance and wasn't pushing as much snow around. I had some pics and was going to write a post about it, but I've been too busy to get to it.

So, my recommendation would definitely be to air down - it's free and makes a huge improvement in wheelhop and traction. Depending on the consistency of the snow, I'd expect the hopping to stop somewhere in the 15-25psi range on the rear tires.

Did you run that low pressure with all your weight in the bed?

[LKelly]

Did you run that low pressure with all your weight in the bed?

No - I don't have any weight in the bed this year, mainly because it snowed and got cold too early this winter and I just wasn't prepared. You'd think that after having lived up here my entire life I'd have everything ready, but winter still surprises me each year.

If I had a decent amount of weight in the back I probably wouldn't go below 15psi...anything below that is one of those "try at your own risk" sorts of things. I originally only tried 5psi in the rear in an emergency situation, and then once I realized that I could go that low without losing a bead I decided to do some experiments.

Of course, at super-low pressures like 5psi you don't want to drive very aggressively...but at the same time, you really don't need to because you can pretty much just crawl around without spinning a tire. With the auto I do a lot of my snow 'wheeling in 4-high, because the low range shift points are really annoying...it seems like I'm always driving at the same speed where it's trying to upshift and downshift between first and second. High range means that I can't use the lockers, but with the tires aired down and the swaybar disconnected I've never noticed much difference with or without using the lockers in snow.

At higher pressures (like 20psi) I've never had any bead-related issues with the factory PW wheels - even doing doughnuts in parking lots, hitting bare pavement or sliding sideways into icy snowbanks. I've looked at the supposed "internal beadlocks" on our wheels when I was changing tires, and while those small ridges don't look like much perhaps they're actually doing something.

[MOPARManiac]

I have never had an issue with axle hop in snow with either my PW or my old 01 1500 Off Road pickup and I drive in a lot of snow. Treat the gas pedal like you are stepping on an egg-nice and easy. That eliminates axle hop.

[LKelly]

I have never had an issue with axle hop in snow with either my PW or my old 01 1500 Off Road pickup and I drive in a lot of snow. Treat the gas pedal like you are stepping on an egg-nice and easy. That eliminates axle hop.

Weird...perhaps the snow out west is a lot different consistency than the snow in the midwest, because the light-throttle thing doesn't help around here. If anything, the opposite is true - sometimes if you spin the tires fast enough the hopping stops...though usually you're stuck at that point. The snow depth also matters, as snow that isn't that deep (or is really light and fluffy) can be driven through without triggering the hopping. The snow we get around here packs down and is usually heavy enough that you can almost walk on top without snowshoes, and that stuff can be a pain to drive through without airing down.

I've never owned a leaf-sprung pickup that didn't wheelhop in snow, though some are a lot worse than others.

[MOPARManiac]

You missed my point, or I should have explained myself better. Changing up your driving style and being easier on the throttle can help. It also prolongs the life of tires, rear differential, etc. snow or no snow. Weight over the rear end can help as well. The best tire for snow is a tall, skinny tire. The factory tires on the PW are not a bad tire size for snow though skinnier would even be better.

My personal opinion is if you need to "mash it" to prevent wheel hop, then it is time for 1st gear, 4-lo, and chains. If that doesn't work then it is time to sit inside by the fire. I have a lot of years of experience driving is all types of snow, and I am just sharing what I have found to do best.

[bones]

I have 800lbs over my rear axle and I cannot possible give it any more less throttle while in 4Lo with everything locked and in 4hi it acts the same way. I can barely tap the throttle and it is jumping out of its tires immediately.

[TwinStick]

The snow's consistency makes a HUGE difference. In powder, i get almost no wheel hop. In good packing snow it is absolutely horrible. Last night i stopped on the way home to engage my lockers. Snow was real good packing, about 12" of it. I almost got stuck. Axle hop was so bad i thought i was gonna break something. This time i tried 1st gear hi range-no damn good. 1st gear lo range-no damn good. 2nd gear lo range-no damn good. 3rd gear lo range-no damn good. I ended up unlocking the axles & going from R to 2nd Hi range, with a LOT of throttle & rocking it & turning the front tires back & forth to get out. I was embarrassed. I thought the truck was gonna break in half.

[MOPARManiac]

That's crazy, I have never had axle hop like that in snow. The only time I have had axle hop is in Sand. Do you guys have wider than stock tires? I am wondering if the wider tire in the snow is causing the axle hop?

I wonder how the new suspension coming out will improve the issue?

[08TwinStickPW]

Went to work yesterday, dragging diffs on the way out of the driveway with powder....no hop.

Work wax closed (don't ask) and back in the drive way half way and parked.

Cleared snow and about 2 hours later move the truck and wheel hope due to the wetter snow, easy on the gas and she crawled through.

[TwinStick]

Stock size tires here. Both sets are 285/70/17. Dont matter if i have the BFG on or my Cooper STT's. Axle hop is horrible in good packing snow. Dont matter what position the throttle is in, unless i can hit it at speed with a running start.

When i do a suspension lift, i am going to go with the HD Carli rear springs that are designed to carry 1500lbs at all times. Hopefully between those & the diesel coils & some good shocks, axle hop will be a thing of the past on my truck.

[Stickman]

We had a good little bit of powder fall on top of everything that was packed earlier today and I decided to go though a couple spots that everything got plowed into (intersections at 3 ways and such) and the snow was about to the bottom of the valence and it axle hopped like crazy in 1st gear 4 Hi no lockers after I had lost my speed I had entering it. Let off, backed up about 5 foot, hammered down again and started hopping the instant I got past my ruts I just dug. I let off and just lightly feathered it and it crawled right through. Like I said though, that was probably 6"-8" of wet stuff with 3"-5" of powder on top.

EDIT: Forgot to add that I still have the stock BFGs and I'm running them with 45 in the front and 40 in the rear.

[JBM Power Wagon]

I went out for some wheeling today and had the tires aired down to 18psi in the front and 15psi in the rear. Was going through some pretty crusty snow 1-2 feet deep and only experienced very mild wheel hop. I know for me it is all about the tire pressure. When I am up around 35-40psi she bounces all over the place!

[LKelly]

You missed my point, or I should have explained myself better. Changing up your driving style and being easier on the throttle can help. It also prolongs the life of tires, rear differential, etc. snow or no snow.

I actually go really easy on the throttle in snow - the full throttle thing was kinda a joke, as I usually save that for when I'm trying to do doughnuts in parking lots. I have major back problems, so I avoid bouncing around at all costs...so my normal 'wheeling speed is about 5 miles an hour.

What others have said seems to back up the "snow consistency" theory - fresh powder snow isn't much of an issue, but once it packs down and gets more "packable" it's an issue. If my tires aren't aired down, and I slowly ease into the throttle at a standstill, the truck will gradually rev up without moving until the tires break loose and it hops in place - there really isn't any speed slow enough that it won't hop. I've run 265/70, 285/70 and 315/70 tires on my PW, and they've all had the hopping issue when they weren't aired down. The 285s were the factory tires, the 265s were a winter tire with a super-soft rubber compound, and the 315s are a mud tire.

Right now we've got perhaps 2 feet of snow on the ground, but we've had at least 5 feet of snow so far this winter - so it's all gotten packed down over the winter. The "official" weather site north of here says that they've had 242" of snow so far this winter with 40" of snow on the ground...so perhaps my estimate of 5 feet is a bit low. It does show how much the snow packs around here, though - over 20 feet of snow packing down to less than 4.

Some winters the snow gets so dense that you can walk on top of it, and that snow is a pain with the PW - because it's too heavy to stay on top, but the snow is too heavy to push once you sink in. About 20 years ago I got one of my trucks stuck in that stuff, because I was actually driving on top of the snow when I suddenly broke through the crust. I knew I was in trouble when I got out my hi-lift and it wasn't even tall enough to stick out of the snow...there must have been at least 5 feet on the ground. It took most of a week to get out, including multiple trips in and out hauling sheets of plywood to use to build a 'road' on top of the snow...perhaps my worst snow-stuck ever.