October is expensive truck month, part 2

[HammerTime]

LOL, yes indeed October is expensive truck month!

1. $2500 37x12.50x17 BFG KM3 tires on black Method rims
2. $3000 5.13 gears
3. $190 AEV ProCal
4. TBD? Carli Level (Do I need it?)

My tires do have minor rubbing while turning and the suspension is moving up/down. The truck does look great, almost like it should have come with 4.88/5.13 gears and 37" tires from the factory... LOL!

The question is:
After trimming the obvious rub points in the fender wells (plastic/pinch weld) next weekend, will I still have excessive rubbing off roading? (Not hard core rock crawling, but not easy fire roads either. )

Thanks!

[DamageWagon]

In going to be bad-salesman-of-the-month and try to save you from spending money that isn’t needed.

Fitting 37’s on a power wagon in the 14-18 years is no problem. Use a box cutter or other blade to cut the plastic fender liner as needed to clear the tires. The sides will not be symmetrical as the axle swings in an arc due to trackbar. Some folding or trimming of the pinch seam may be required as necessary but will be minimal. Rubbing against the swaybar and bolt should be considered acceptable, it’s only paint and constant rubbing keeps the rust away. Only a decreased turning radius should warrant a big change.

A ‘big change’ being new wheels. Please note that new suspension will not affect your tire clearance unless you are doing a 6”+ lift that uses bump stops drops. Anything 3” or leveling kit territory won’t change tire clearance because you’re bottoming out in the same spot regardless of lift. So, wheels are the proper way to do things. A +18mm Offset wheel is the proper way to go. Don’t use wheel Backspace, use Offset.

If your bank account is burning to the ground I’m happy to sell you proper offset Trail Ready beadlocks and a hydro assist steering kit to turn those tires, but I think you’ve spent it properly already

5.13’s are the answer. 4.88 isn’t enough. Anything over 5.13 is making the pinion gear too small.

Leveling kits suck. Buy a performance suspension system. I’m happy to discuss real application/solution per your use including solutions I need to refer you to.

Also it’s time to be a dick. BFG tires don’t work well on 8,000+lb trucks until proven otherwise. The new KM3 is an unknown but the previous tires had really poor and rapid wear patterns. Second, PLEASE treat those Methods nice or get a real wheel if you’re going to push the truck hard. Methods don’t hold up on our trucks. I’ve seen so many break in such fantastic ways that it’s well beyond being funny, and really into the ‘the manufacturer doesn’t care’ side. They crack very easily, and I’ve seen an 8-spoke wheel have 5+ cracked spikes on so many occasions that it’s just stupid.

Marcus
Dethloff Mfg

[Oilbrnr]

Marcus - Seeing as how I work for Discount Tire (corp) I'm going to follow up on the Method wheels. I have not heard of such failures, but I'm not in the wheel dept. either. Are the failures that you know of due to improper lug torque, contact with rocks, or straight up cracking? I do recall that they had one style in 8-lug that was rated higher, so I'm wondering if guys were not using those and overloading the spec'd max weight of the other 8-lug models. I personally have Methods on my PW and have not had any issues in two years and I run fairly heavy (9-9.5k).

I do know that we were (not sure if still the case) not recommending the KO2's for heavy truck applications due to excessive wear. Perhaps Michelin has modified their compounds, but that snowflake rating has a cost in relation to overall life. Also, I'll see what kind of feedback I can get on the KM3.

[DamageWagon]

Specifically Method beadlocks, which are supposed to be higher quality, fail all the time. Not from improper use. I see the spokes crack, the wheel ring itself break, and the beadlock rings shear off. The first two could apply to any Method.

They are thin wheels that are cheaply made. They look good and will serve most people just fine. I consider wheels as a life safety component and don’t like to see questionable parts in use on these trucks.

[Oilbrnr]

Well, not sure which Method the OP purchased (assuming the faux), but we don't sell the true beadlock version as far as I'm aware, so can't really speak to their Race line. But here is what I got back:

We have seem premature wear issues on certain sizes of KO2's when used on 3/4 and 1-ton diesel's. Have I personally heard of 3/4 and 1-ton trucks breaking/cracking Methods? No. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, but it hasn't reached my desk and if this were a major problem it normally would. Do I see breaking/cracking in Moto Metal, XD and Fuel? Yes. As far as the ‘the manufacturer doesn’t care’ statement, that couldn't be farther from the truth. That being said, everyone uses, loads and builds their trucks differently.

I'll try to get more info on the BFGs.

[HammerTime]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses/comments. Much appreciated! As for the wheels, they are NOT the bead locks. My truck will be used for some middle level off roading, but is also still my tow vehicle. (I'm a lucky MFer and daily drive a Challenger Hellcat.... LOL!)

Middle level to me means most of the trails at Superstition Mountain near El Centro, all over Ocotillo Wells off road park, Moab, and back country in Montana.

FYI, I did run the KM3 35x12x17 for about 7000 miles before I picked up the 37" versions. I was very pleased with the wear and off road performance with the 35"s, hope I'm happy with the 37s. FYI, I'm a tire guy, like my wife is a shoe gal... In other words, I'll be buying another set of tires about this same time next year regardless of what the 37s look like. I just like new tires on my 4 wheeling rigs...

As a information point: My last truck was a 2015 Ram 2500 Cummins 4x4. I put 285x65x20 K02s on it. They totally sucked. Only lasted around 10K miles. No Bueno. I tried the KM3s based on an off road review which said the were wearing well and preforming well also. So far my experience matches that result.

Thanks for the input/suggestions. I will most likely eventually end up with the Carli Back Country Power Wagon suspension. Next year... LOL. I did discuss the AEV Procal with AEV customer support today, as the instruction didn't cover 5.13 gears... Big oops! Except, they do handle the 5.13s, just follow the JK jeep instructions for that. Whew.

The customer support fella at AEV also mentioned that the 5.13s will support 40" tires while maintain the ability of towing quite well. So... Maybe next year! LOL!

[verdesardog]

I just put new tires and rims on my CTD, I think the American Racing AR172 are nice and heavy duty.

[biocide]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses/comments. Much appreciated! As for the wheels, they are NOT the bead locks. My truck will be used for some middle level off roading, but is also still my tow vehicle. (I'm a lucky MFer and daily drive a Challenger Hellcat.... LOL!)

Middle level to me means most of the trails at Superstition Mountain near El Centro, all over Ocotillo Wells off road park, Moab, and back country in Montana.

FYI, I did run the KM3 35x12x17 for about 7000 miles before I picked up the 37" versions. I was very pleased with the wear and off road performance with the 35"s, hope I'm happy with the 37s. FYI, I'm a tire guy, like my wife is a shoe gal... In other words, I'll be buying another set of tires about this same time next year regardless of what the 37s look like. I just like new tires on my 4 wheeling rigs...

As a information point: My last truck was a 2015 Ram 2500 Cummins 4x4. I put 285x65x20 K02s on it. They totally sucked. Only lasted around 10K miles. No Bueno. I tried the KM3s based on an off road review which said the were wearing well and preforming well also. So far my experience matches that result.

Thanks for the input/suggestions. I will most likely eventually end up with the Carli Back Country Power Wagon suspension. Next year... LOL. I did discuss the AEV Procal with AEV customer support today, as the instruction didn't cover 5.13 gears... Big oops! Except, they do handle the 5.13s, just follow the JK jeep instructions for that. Whew.

The customer support fella at AEV also mentioned that the 5.13s will support 40" tires while maintain the ability of towing quite well. So... Maybe next year! LOL!

How do you decide which rig gets the mods? LOL, I am in the same boat, 2018 PW (needs sliders, thuren suspension and 37's, tune.....ect.....) and a 2016 Challenger Hellcat (needs upper pulley, tune, rear diff brace, front/back braces, drag radials....ect......)

[m25443]

What offset for those wheels? Makes all the difference on how much they rub with 37's (or even 35's sometimes).

[verdesardog]

If you're asking me those AR172 rims are 9" wide, -12mm offset giving them a back space of 4.53"
Stock wheels were 8" +43mm offset giving them 6.6 backspace.
The tires do stick out a bit farther than stock and do not rub body or suspension on my leveled 06 CTD.
BTW they are the only size listed to fit my truck.

[Reloaderguy]

The question is:
After trimming the obvious rub points in the fender wells (plastic/pinch weld) next weekend, will I still have excessive rubbing off roading? (Not hard core rock crawling, but not easy fire roads either. )

Thanks!

Not with the undersized BFG. You probably won't even have to trim with as small as those tires are.

[FordyceCreekTrail]

My Km3s lasted about 42K, better then the Duratrash at 12K, and no flats. The problem I see is if you do a lot of highway as I do they wear down fast, need to go less aggressive tread, and possible harder compound for highway. I am thinking of Nitto Ridge Grapplers next.

[HammerTime]

How do you decide which rig gets the mods? LOL, I am in the same boat, 2018 PW (needs sliders, thuren suspension and 37's, tune.....ect.....) and a 2016 Challenger Hellcat (needs upper pulley, tune, rear diff brace, front/back braces, drag radials....ect......)

I'm happy with the Hellcat as it is for now. It's my commuter economy car, don't want mods to kill MPG.... LOL!

[HammerTime]

My Km3s lasted about 42K, better then the Duratrash at 12K, and no flats. The problem I see is if you do a lot of highway as I do they wear down fast, need to go less aggressive tread, and possible harder compound for highway. I am thinking of Nitto Ridge Grapplers next.

That's great for a mudder! Maybe I will get a couple of years out of them. I only do a lot of highway miles when I road trip to Montana or Washington State when bad weather is possible. I much prefer the Challenger (huge amount of trunk space!) or my wife's Grand Cherokee (2WD, she will not let me buy her a 4WD GC for some reason... LOL!) during the Summer. Which makes the AT snow rated tires even more important... I'll probably get a second set of wheels/tires for Late Autumn/Winter road trips.

[04Ram2500Hemi]

How do you decide which rig gets the mods? LOL, I am in the same boat, 2018 PW (needs sliders, thuren suspension and 37's, tune.....ect.....) and a 2016 Challenger Hellcat (needs upper pulley, tune, rear diff brace, front/back braces, drag radials....ect......)

I'm happy with the Hellcat as it is for now. It's my commuter economy car, don't want mods to kill MPG.... LOL!

I can't imagine adding more HP to my Hellcat. 707hp is enough to get my ass in trouble, especially with a CDL!

[HammerTime]

How do you decide which rig gets the mods? LOL, I am in the same boat, 2018 PW (needs sliders, thuren suspension and 37's, tune.....ect.....) and a 2016 Challenger Hellcat (needs upper pulley, tune, rear diff brace, front/back braces, drag radials....ect......)

I'm happy with the Hellcat as it is for now. It's my commuter economy car, don't want mods to kill MPG.... LOL!

I can't imagine adding more HP to my Hellcat. 707hp is enough to get my ass in trouble, especially with a CDL!

LOL! Yes sir, I know the feeling... If only I could get some 315s installed in the back! (295 Nitto's now, helps but it's not enough rubber to keep bad things from happening!)

What color Cat do you have? I have a 2015, Jazz Blue A8. Just crossed 40K miles. Best car ever. IMO of course!

[04Ram2500Hemi]

How do you decide which rig gets the mods? LOL, I am in the same boat, 2018 PW (needs sliders, thuren suspension and 37's, tune.....ect.....) and a 2016 Challenger Hellcat (needs upper pulley, tune, rear diff brace, front/back braces, drag radials....ect......)

I'm happy with the Hellcat as it is for now. It's my commuter economy car, don't want mods to kill MPG.... LOL!

I can't imagine adding more HP to my Hellcat. 707hp is enough to get my ass in trouble, especially with a CDL!

LOL! Yes sir, I know the feeling... If only I could get some 315s installed in the back! (295 Nitto's now, helps but it's not enough rubber to keep bad things from happening!)

What color Cat do you have? I have a 2015, Jazz Blue A8. Just crossed 40K miles. Best car ever. IMO of course!

Mine is a 2016 Challenger in Go Mango with Brass Monkey Wheels. I put mine away for winter a couple weeks ago with just over 10,000 miles.

[HammerTime]

Go Mango is a great color! I also like the Yellow Jacket with black hood, White with black hood, Black, Red, and of course, Jazz Blue!

Montana is no place for a Hellcat in the Winter! I was there a few weeks ago. My mom lives in Libby. On the way there from my Sister's house near Seattle we ran into snow and heard on the radio that they had 4ft drifts in Great Falls... That is why I drove my Power Wagon from San Diego to Seattle. I knew I was giving my mom a ride home from there in the middle of October. Turned out to be a fairly good idea!

[HammerTime]

Quick review after having my 37" tires and 5.13 gears for a week...

This truck is awesome! If anyone wants to run 37" tires, I highly recommend the AAM 5.13 gears. The truck feels fantastic. That and the AEV Procal to set the gear ratio and the tire size has it driving better than stock. To return the gears to stock with the 37" KM3s I would have needed 4.56 gears. To offset the unsprung weight I wanted to go with 4.88s. The gear shop would only install AAM gears, which were available in 4.44 or 5.13. I chose 5.13s and am very glad I did. The truck honestly drives better now than it did stock with the 33" duratrashes. I am getting some minor rubbing, and I'm in the midst of deciding to either cut some plastic or just get a Thuren or Carli suspension kit. It looks as if 1 or 2" more up front would take care of the issue.

I hate to say it as I know I'm gonna take some crap... But the ave MPG since I put the gears in went from 10.8 MPG with stock gears and 35" KM3s to 11.2 MPG with 5.13 and 37s. Not sure if that makes sense, but hey I'm open to the possibility that my gear ratio is now more optimized for my style of driving... Even if its a short term anomaly, it's definitely not taking as big a hit as I thought it might!

[04Ram2500Hemi]

Go Mango is a great color! I also like the Yellow Jacket with black hood, White with black hood, Black, Red, and of course, Jazz Blue!

Montana is no place for a Hellcat in the Winter! I was there a few weeks ago. My mom lives in Libby. On the way there from my Sister's house near Seattle we ran into snow and heard on the radio that they had 4ft drifts in Great Falls... That is why I drove my Power Wagon from San Diego to Seattle. I knew I was giving my mom a ride home from there in the middle of October. Turned out to be a fairly good idea!

You're 100% right, the Hellcat is not a great Montana Winter car. In fact, it went into winter storage just before hunting started in October. It is a fun road car though when the weather is nice!

[EasyDoesIt]

Quick review after having my 37" tires and 5.13 gears for a week...

This truck is awesome! If anyone wants to run 37" tires, I highly recommend the AAM 5.13 gears. The truck feels fantastic. That and the AEV Procal to set the gear ratio and the tire size has it driving better than stock. To return the gears to stock with the 37" KM3s I would have needed 4.56 gears. To offset the unsprung weight I wanted to go with 4.88s. The gear shop would only install AAM gears, which were available in 4.44 or 5.13. I chose 5.13s and am very glad I did. The truck honestly drives better now than it did stock with the 33" duratrashes. I am getting some minor rubbing, and I'm in the midst of deciding to either cut some plastic or just get a Thuren or Carli suspension kit. It looks as if 1 or 2" more up front would take care of the issue.

I hate to say it as I know I'm gonna take some crap... But the ave MPG since I put the gears in went from 10.8 MPG with stock gears and 35" KM3s to 11.2 MPG with 5.13 and 37s. Not sure if that makes sense, but hey I'm open to the possibility that my gear ratio is now more optimized for my style of driving... Even if its a short term anomaly, it's definitely not taking as big a hit as I thought it might!

Man that sounds great. Hopefully I'll have a similar November expensive truck month to include 5.13s.

[EasyDoesIt]

Do you have part numbers for the below...

Front 9.25 Ring Gear Spacer
Front 9.25 Ring Gear Bolts

Rear 11.5 Pinion Bearing
Rear 11.5 Pinion Bearing Crush Sleeve

And anything else that was not standard?

I'm stopping by the Driveline shop to firm up the quote and want to make sure they've accounted for everything.

Thanks
Steve

[HammerTime]

Do you have part numbers for the below...

Front 9.25 Ring Gear Spacer
Front 9.25 Ring Gear Bolts

Rear 11.5 Pinion Bearing
Rear 11.5 Pinion Bearing Crush Sleeve

And anything else that was not standard?

I'm stopping by the Driveline shop to firm up the quote and want to make sure they've accounted for everything.

Thanks
Steve

Hi Steve,

I think that I have my invoice in my office, if I do I'll post the parts list. However, if you call "Pro Gear Differential Parts and Service" in San Diego, I bet they would send you a copy of my parts list.

https://progearaxles.com/

They really seem to be a bunch of friendly people there. If you do call the shop, tell them Cliff with the 2017 Power Wagon said "Hi" and thanks! So far, so good. They did a great job. Oh, I just remembered, there was a part that was NOT on my parts list. It was a spacer. They forgot to put it on the invoice, so they added it free of charge. But... My invoice will not have it on there! Definitely call them and make sure to ask them about that spacer.

Cliff

[biocide]

How do you decide which rig gets the mods? LOL, I am in the same boat, 2018 PW (needs sliders, thuren suspension and 37's, tune.....ect.....) and a 2016 Challenger Hellcat (needs upper pulley, tune, rear diff brace, front/back braces, drag radials....ect......)

I'm happy with the Hellcat as it is for now. It's my commuter economy car, don't want mods to kill MPG.... LOL!

I can't imagine adding more HP to my Hellcat. 707hp is enough to get my ass in trouble, especially with a CDL!

LOL! Yes sir, I know the feeling... If only I could get some 315s installed in the back! (295 Nitto's now, helps but it's not enough rubber to keep bad things from happening!)

What color Cat do you have? I have a 2015, Jazz Blue A8. Just crossed 40K miles. Best car ever. IMO of course!

2016 TorRed M6 18k miles

[HammerTime]

Sweet looking 'Cat!

I tried to attach a pic of mine, but I seem to have forgotten how to do that...!