MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
- BigRed2007
- 250_Posts
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- Model Year: 2007
- Location: Central Texas
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
Usually Leif is the "organizer," BANNG seemed like he was helping this year, or vice versa. ...I think dates are within a day of what they will end up being (3-8 or 2-7 something like that) some said they were staying at Moab Valley RV park. I prefer the Canyonlands (across the main drag from the brewery) I am easy though.
Haven't heard from many on here though...Leif, BANNG you guys around?
Haven't heard from many on here though...Leif, BANNG you guys around?
Flame Red 07 PW - BIG RED
White Knuckle Offroad Rock Sliders, Volant Intake, LightForce 210 HID x2, HiLift Mounted on Tool Box, Locker Bypass, OBA - EXTREMAIRE Magnum, High Idle, 315/70/17 MTR/Ks, ARB Front Bumper, Synthetic Winch Rope, 3000 Watt Inverter, Carli Performance 2.0 Front end and rear shocks, DT PROFAB Steering brace and Steering Stabilizer,Carli Front Diff Gaurd, 12v Fridge Freezer, Dual Optima Yellow Tops, AirFlow Snorkle, Magnaflow Muffler and Y-Pipe, 2x50W Solar Panels, DOR Control Arms.
KE0BZG
WQUY939
White Knuckle Offroad Rock Sliders, Volant Intake, LightForce 210 HID x2, HiLift Mounted on Tool Box, Locker Bypass, OBA - EXTREMAIRE Magnum, High Idle, 315/70/17 MTR/Ks, ARB Front Bumper, Synthetic Winch Rope, 3000 Watt Inverter, Carli Performance 2.0 Front end and rear shocks, DT PROFAB Steering brace and Steering Stabilizer,Carli Front Diff Gaurd, 12v Fridge Freezer, Dual Optima Yellow Tops, AirFlow Snorkle, Magnaflow Muffler and Y-Pipe, 2x50W Solar Panels, DOR Control Arms.
KE0BZG
WQUY939
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
Thanks BigRed for the update, I am plugging those dates into the calender, regardless, I will be up there a day or two before, and a day or two after the event. My rig is still street legal (in FLorida) Thank god for the lax Florida laws:) So I will be able to catch up with the group at various locations/bars/pubs/strip clubs:) and trails. Not to get technical::::: But here goes.
The amount of people that usually show up for this event,,,, Are the drivers tackling the the trails that they are comfortable with ie: groups set up from Wild to Mild trails, depending on the build of the vehicle? In order to keep trail traffic down to a minimum(5 trucks per run)
Or is this a play things by ear, and have a meeting area and pick and choose what trails, and who is going, or not?
Is there a main "area" that everyone will meet at in the mornings (large enough for a big group) then branch out from there?
Sorry for all the questions, as I am trying to get a feel for how this "event" is put together/
The amount of people that usually show up for this event,,,, Are the drivers tackling the the trails that they are comfortable with ie: groups set up from Wild to Mild trails, depending on the build of the vehicle? In order to keep trail traffic down to a minimum(5 trucks per run)
Or is this a play things by ear, and have a meeting area and pick and choose what trails, and who is going, or not?
Is there a main "area" that everyone will meet at in the mornings (large enough for a big group) then branch out from there?
Sorry for all the questions, as I am trying to get a feel for how this "event" is put together/
- 05PWrockcrawler
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Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
Well I've been looking for a place to stay and everything is getting filled up quick.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk/hopefully somewhere Offroad!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk/hopefully somewhere Offroad!
- 05PWrockcrawler
- 1000_Posts
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Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
Looking like I'm gonna go a different route now. Looking at staying at the Ceder Brooks condos now cheapest place I can find.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk/hopefully somewhere Offroad!
- 05PWrockcrawler
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Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
I will probably book tomorrow if I can't find anything else.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk/hopefully somewhere Offroad!
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
I will have room in my motorhome if you need a place to crash, as of now, I have 4 beds available in the bunk bed area.. Fair warning, as we tend to get rowdy and stay up till the weee hours in the morning;) I will be at the trail head at Pritchett's Canyon for the first 4 days, then staying at the entrance of Area BFE for the remainder of my stay.. Both Areas are within 10/15mins of downtown Moab.
The motorhome is fully self contained 130gals of fresh water, I tend to take outdoor showers most of the time. I keep the Genset running the entire time, so we will have ALL the creature comforts

The motorhome is fully self contained 130gals of fresh water, I tend to take outdoor showers most of the time. I keep the Genset running the entire time, so we will have ALL the creature comforts


- BigRed2007
- 250_Posts
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- Model Year: 2007
- Location: Central Texas
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
I can only speak for what happened last year. We linked up for dinner the arrival day to discuss the weekend. We spent one day doing a scenic trail with the families, then did Hells Revenge the next day (took all day as we had to MEDEVAC a quad rider) then we drove home next day. We we only 5 or six trucks and we all did the same things. This year seems like there will be a lot more trucks so it may be a lot different
Flame Red 07 PW - BIG RED
White Knuckle Offroad Rock Sliders, Volant Intake, LightForce 210 HID x2, HiLift Mounted on Tool Box, Locker Bypass, OBA - EXTREMAIRE Magnum, High Idle, 315/70/17 MTR/Ks, ARB Front Bumper, Synthetic Winch Rope, 3000 Watt Inverter, Carli Performance 2.0 Front end and rear shocks, DT PROFAB Steering brace and Steering Stabilizer,Carli Front Diff Gaurd, 12v Fridge Freezer, Dual Optima Yellow Tops, AirFlow Snorkle, Magnaflow Muffler and Y-Pipe, 2x50W Solar Panels, DOR Control Arms.
KE0BZG
WQUY939
White Knuckle Offroad Rock Sliders, Volant Intake, LightForce 210 HID x2, HiLift Mounted on Tool Box, Locker Bypass, OBA - EXTREMAIRE Magnum, High Idle, 315/70/17 MTR/Ks, ARB Front Bumper, Synthetic Winch Rope, 3000 Watt Inverter, Carli Performance 2.0 Front end and rear shocks, DT PROFAB Steering brace and Steering Stabilizer,Carli Front Diff Gaurd, 12v Fridge Freezer, Dual Optima Yellow Tops, AirFlow Snorkle, Magnaflow Muffler and Y-Pipe, 2x50W Solar Panels, DOR Control Arms.
KE0BZG
WQUY939
- 05PWrockcrawler
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Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
Hmmmmm very very tempting
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- jeep_boy02
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Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
I hope I can make it guys. Definitely need to plan a group pic for a calender
2010 black pearl(PXR) on 35s, bypass harness, gooseneck, CAI, 3" magnaflow catback, bulldog hemi GT.... more to come soon
- adeluca73
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Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
Tentatively, I'm in too! Can't wait
SOLD : 2014 Ram PW SLT: (Flame Red) 1st year of the Best Gen
<Build Thread>
NEW : 2025 Ram PW SLT: (Flame Red) Last year of the Best Gen
Initial Mods:
<Build Thread>
NEW : 2025 Ram PW SLT: (Flame Red) Last year of the Best Gen
Initial Mods:
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- Pit Slave
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Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
The list....
1) 05PWrockcrawler
2) Mr.Smith
3) BANGG
4) Pit Slave
5) Gun45Boat aka: Trail Slut.
6) Jeepnjonny
7) fyrfytr704
8) SheepdogOutdoorsman + Wife
8.5) My Buddy & His Girl (Jeep Cherokee)
9) chrisjameswagner
10) SilverWagon05, wife and 2 boys, 9 and 13 years old.
11) Shaner82
12) TonkaPW, Maybe with the wife and kids.
13) ldgregory, wife and 2 girls, 9 and 16yo
14) BigRed2007 + wife??
15)
16)
17)
18)
19)
20)
1) 05PWrockcrawler
2) Mr.Smith
3) BANGG
4) Pit Slave
5) Gun45Boat aka: Trail Slut.
6) Jeepnjonny
7) fyrfytr704
8) SheepdogOutdoorsman + Wife
8.5) My Buddy & His Girl (Jeep Cherokee)
9) chrisjameswagner
10) SilverWagon05, wife and 2 boys, 9 and 13 years old.
11) Shaner82
12) TonkaPW, Maybe with the wife and kids.
13) ldgregory, wife and 2 girls, 9 and 16yo
14) BigRed2007 + wife??
15)
16)
17)
18)
19)
20)
Nothing's more dead than a horse in a glue bottle.
There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation.
One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
John Adams - 1826
I guess you could say I'm a bit off center.....

There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation.
One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
John Adams - 1826
I guess you could say I'm a bit off center.....

Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
I dont think BAANG is going to make it this year, he is busy lately with a bunch of stuff, I talked to him on the phone last week. WOuld like to see him in Moab, but I do not think he has the time this year:(
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
The list....
1) 05PWrockcrawler
2) Mr.Smith
3) BANGG
4) Pit Slave
5) Gun45Boat aka: Trail Slut.
6) Jeepnjonny
7) fyrfytr704
8) SheepdogOutdoorsman + Wife
8.5) My Buddy & His Girl (Jeep Cherokee)
9) chrisjameswagner
10) SilverWagon05, wife and 2 boys, 9 and 13 years old.
11) Shaner82
12) TonkaPW, Maybe with the wife and kids.
13) ldgregory, wife and 2 girls, 9 and 16yo
14) BigRed2007 + wife??
15) Greyhare
16)
17)
18)
19)
20)
I'm in! Vacation approved & campsite reserved.
1) 05PWrockcrawler
2) Mr.Smith
3) BANGG
4) Pit Slave
5) Gun45Boat aka: Trail Slut.
6) Jeepnjonny
7) fyrfytr704
8) SheepdogOutdoorsman + Wife
8.5) My Buddy & His Girl (Jeep Cherokee)
9) chrisjameswagner
10) SilverWagon05, wife and 2 boys, 9 and 13 years old.
11) Shaner82
12) TonkaPW, Maybe with the wife and kids.
13) ldgregory, wife and 2 girls, 9 and 16yo
14) BigRed2007 + wife??
15) Greyhare
16)
17)
18)
19)
20)
I'm in! Vacation approved & campsite reserved.
2006 Power Wagon: 6 speed manual, 35" tires, Hummer Wheels, Free spin hubs, solid axle front diff cover,K&N filter, DT Profab Adj. sway bar links, Rukse Control Arms, Dynomax Exhaust, LED lights, Carli 3" springs, Carli track bar, Thuren shackles, Fox 2.0 shocks, Bilstein steering stabilizer, DOR steering brace, White knuckle rock rails.
- BigRed2007
- 250_Posts
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- Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:08 pm
- Model Year: 2007
- Location: Central Texas
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
Where are you camping?
Flame Red 07 PW - BIG RED
White Knuckle Offroad Rock Sliders, Volant Intake, LightForce 210 HID x2, HiLift Mounted on Tool Box, Locker Bypass, OBA - EXTREMAIRE Magnum, High Idle, 315/70/17 MTR/Ks, ARB Front Bumper, Synthetic Winch Rope, 3000 Watt Inverter, Carli Performance 2.0 Front end and rear shocks, DT PROFAB Steering brace and Steering Stabilizer,Carli Front Diff Gaurd, 12v Fridge Freezer, Dual Optima Yellow Tops, AirFlow Snorkle, Magnaflow Muffler and Y-Pipe, 2x50W Solar Panels, DOR Control Arms.
KE0BZG
WQUY939
White Knuckle Offroad Rock Sliders, Volant Intake, LightForce 210 HID x2, HiLift Mounted on Tool Box, Locker Bypass, OBA - EXTREMAIRE Magnum, High Idle, 315/70/17 MTR/Ks, ARB Front Bumper, Synthetic Winch Rope, 3000 Watt Inverter, Carli Performance 2.0 Front end and rear shocks, DT PROFAB Steering brace and Steering Stabilizer,Carli Front Diff Gaurd, 12v Fridge Freezer, Dual Optima Yellow Tops, AirFlow Snorkle, Magnaflow Muffler and Y-Pipe, 2x50W Solar Panels, DOR Control Arms.
KE0BZG
WQUY939
- SheepdogOutdoorsman
- 1000_Posts
- Posts: 1061
- Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:03 am
- Location: Mesa, AZ
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
Apparently, I'm out. My cousin scheduled his wedding that weekend ...
The Sheepdog Outdoorsman
2013 Power Wagon: Trail Ready Pre-Runner Guard Front Bumper, PIAA 540 6" Driving Lamps, PIAA 530 4" Fog Lamps, Warn 10" Roller Fairleads, In-Cab Relocation Of Winch Controller Port, & More To Come ...
2013 Power Wagon: Trail Ready Pre-Runner Guard Front Bumper, PIAA 540 6" Driving Lamps, PIAA 530 4" Fog Lamps, Warn 10" Roller Fairleads, In-Cab Relocation Of Winch Controller Port, & More To Come ...
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
is there a post with all the details so I dont have to sort through 215 posts. My wife and I are trying to plan out our vacation time for the year and want to see if I can make this work around the other trips
My new photography site - BlkWgn Photography http://blkwgn.smugmug.com
2006 Dodge Power Wagon production number 44 - Mercenary Offroad Prototype Bumper - Toyo 35 MT - Caril Springs - Carli Track Bar - Thuren Overland Shocks - Carli Front Diff Guard - RockCrusher Rear Diff Guard - Airflow Snorkel - Locker Bypass - Leer shell w/Roof Rack and 125w Solar Panel - and an empty wallet
1979 Yamaha DT175 Enduro (For Sale)
Kilo Juliet Six Delta Zulu Zulu
EMR (Emergency Medical Responder) Certified via San Bernardino County Fire
San Antonio Heights C.E.R.T Founding Member
San Bernardino National Forest OHV Volunteer[/color]
Build Thread http://americanadventurist.com/Forum/sh ... agon-Build
American Adventurist - http://www.americanadventurist.com
2006 Dodge Power Wagon production number 44 - Mercenary Offroad Prototype Bumper - Toyo 35 MT - Caril Springs - Carli Track Bar - Thuren Overland Shocks - Carli Front Diff Guard - RockCrusher Rear Diff Guard - Airflow Snorkel - Locker Bypass - Leer shell w/Roof Rack and 125w Solar Panel - and an empty wallet
1979 Yamaha DT175 Enduro (For Sale)
Kilo Juliet Six Delta Zulu Zulu
EMR (Emergency Medical Responder) Certified via San Bernardino County Fire
San Antonio Heights C.E.R.T Founding Member
San Bernardino National Forest OHV Volunteer[/color]
Build Thread http://americanadventurist.com/Forum/sh ... agon-Build
American Adventurist - http://www.americanadventurist.com
- BigRed2007
- 250_Posts
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:08 pm
- Model Year: 2007
- Location: Central Texas
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
First week in May (3-8ish). I am not sure who the organizer is anymore for sure. People are staying at multiple locations.
Flame Red 07 PW - BIG RED
White Knuckle Offroad Rock Sliders, Volant Intake, LightForce 210 HID x2, HiLift Mounted on Tool Box, Locker Bypass, OBA - EXTREMAIRE Magnum, High Idle, 315/70/17 MTR/Ks, ARB Front Bumper, Synthetic Winch Rope, 3000 Watt Inverter, Carli Performance 2.0 Front end and rear shocks, DT PROFAB Steering brace and Steering Stabilizer,Carli Front Diff Gaurd, 12v Fridge Freezer, Dual Optima Yellow Tops, AirFlow Snorkle, Magnaflow Muffler and Y-Pipe, 2x50W Solar Panels, DOR Control Arms.
KE0BZG
WQUY939
White Knuckle Offroad Rock Sliders, Volant Intake, LightForce 210 HID x2, HiLift Mounted on Tool Box, Locker Bypass, OBA - EXTREMAIRE Magnum, High Idle, 315/70/17 MTR/Ks, ARB Front Bumper, Synthetic Winch Rope, 3000 Watt Inverter, Carli Performance 2.0 Front end and rear shocks, DT PROFAB Steering brace and Steering Stabilizer,Carli Front Diff Gaurd, 12v Fridge Freezer, Dual Optima Yellow Tops, AirFlow Snorkle, Magnaflow Muffler and Y-Pipe, 2x50W Solar Panels, DOR Control Arms.
KE0BZG
WQUY939
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
Thanks, we are doing Overland Expo right after that, will have to see if I can make it work
My new photography site - BlkWgn Photography http://blkwgn.smugmug.com
2006 Dodge Power Wagon production number 44 - Mercenary Offroad Prototype Bumper - Toyo 35 MT - Caril Springs - Carli Track Bar - Thuren Overland Shocks - Carli Front Diff Guard - RockCrusher Rear Diff Guard - Airflow Snorkel - Locker Bypass - Leer shell w/Roof Rack and 125w Solar Panel - and an empty wallet
1979 Yamaha DT175 Enduro (For Sale)
Kilo Juliet Six Delta Zulu Zulu
EMR (Emergency Medical Responder) Certified via San Bernardino County Fire
San Antonio Heights C.E.R.T Founding Member
San Bernardino National Forest OHV Volunteer[/color]
Build Thread http://americanadventurist.com/Forum/sh ... agon-Build
American Adventurist - http://www.americanadventurist.com
2006 Dodge Power Wagon production number 44 - Mercenary Offroad Prototype Bumper - Toyo 35 MT - Caril Springs - Carli Track Bar - Thuren Overland Shocks - Carli Front Diff Guard - RockCrusher Rear Diff Guard - Airflow Snorkel - Locker Bypass - Leer shell w/Roof Rack and 125w Solar Panel - and an empty wallet
1979 Yamaha DT175 Enduro (For Sale)
Kilo Juliet Six Delta Zulu Zulu
EMR (Emergency Medical Responder) Certified via San Bernardino County Fire
San Antonio Heights C.E.R.T Founding Member
San Bernardino National Forest OHV Volunteer[/color]
Build Thread http://americanadventurist.com/Forum/sh ... agon-Build
American Adventurist - http://www.americanadventurist.com
- BigRed2007
- 250_Posts
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:08 pm
- Model Year: 2007
- Location: Central Texas
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
you would have to find something to do for a week between Moab and Flagstaff...like the Apline Loop in Colorado...
Flame Red 07 PW - BIG RED
White Knuckle Offroad Rock Sliders, Volant Intake, LightForce 210 HID x2, HiLift Mounted on Tool Box, Locker Bypass, OBA - EXTREMAIRE Magnum, High Idle, 315/70/17 MTR/Ks, ARB Front Bumper, Synthetic Winch Rope, 3000 Watt Inverter, Carli Performance 2.0 Front end and rear shocks, DT PROFAB Steering brace and Steering Stabilizer,Carli Front Diff Gaurd, 12v Fridge Freezer, Dual Optima Yellow Tops, AirFlow Snorkle, Magnaflow Muffler and Y-Pipe, 2x50W Solar Panels, DOR Control Arms.
KE0BZG
WQUY939
White Knuckle Offroad Rock Sliders, Volant Intake, LightForce 210 HID x2, HiLift Mounted on Tool Box, Locker Bypass, OBA - EXTREMAIRE Magnum, High Idle, 315/70/17 MTR/Ks, ARB Front Bumper, Synthetic Winch Rope, 3000 Watt Inverter, Carli Performance 2.0 Front end and rear shocks, DT PROFAB Steering brace and Steering Stabilizer,Carli Front Diff Gaurd, 12v Fridge Freezer, Dual Optima Yellow Tops, AirFlow Snorkle, Magnaflow Muffler and Y-Pipe, 2x50W Solar Panels, DOR Control Arms.
KE0BZG
WQUY939
- 05PWrockcrawler
- 1000_Posts
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Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
When is expo?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk/hopefully somewhere Offroad!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk/hopefully somewhere Offroad!
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
May 15-1705PWrockcrawler wrote:When is expo?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk/hopefully somewhere Offroad!
My new photography site - BlkWgn Photography http://blkwgn.smugmug.com
2006 Dodge Power Wagon production number 44 - Mercenary Offroad Prototype Bumper - Toyo 35 MT - Caril Springs - Carli Track Bar - Thuren Overland Shocks - Carli Front Diff Guard - RockCrusher Rear Diff Guard - Airflow Snorkel - Locker Bypass - Leer shell w/Roof Rack and 125w Solar Panel - and an empty wallet
1979 Yamaha DT175 Enduro (For Sale)
Kilo Juliet Six Delta Zulu Zulu
EMR (Emergency Medical Responder) Certified via San Bernardino County Fire
San Antonio Heights C.E.R.T Founding Member
San Bernardino National Forest OHV Volunteer[/color]
Build Thread http://americanadventurist.com/Forum/sh ... agon-Build
American Adventurist - http://www.americanadventurist.com
2006 Dodge Power Wagon production number 44 - Mercenary Offroad Prototype Bumper - Toyo 35 MT - Caril Springs - Carli Track Bar - Thuren Overland Shocks - Carli Front Diff Guard - RockCrusher Rear Diff Guard - Airflow Snorkel - Locker Bypass - Leer shell w/Roof Rack and 125w Solar Panel - and an empty wallet
1979 Yamaha DT175 Enduro (For Sale)
Kilo Juliet Six Delta Zulu Zulu
EMR (Emergency Medical Responder) Certified via San Bernardino County Fire
San Antonio Heights C.E.R.T Founding Member
San Bernardino National Forest OHV Volunteer[/color]
Build Thread http://americanadventurist.com/Forum/sh ... agon-Build
American Adventurist - http://www.americanadventurist.com
- 05PWrockcrawler
- 1000_Posts
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:56 pm
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
Well I'm booked waited to long was limited on options. Cabins all booked so I'm staying at Cedar Breaks condos so at least I can walk to shops and bars lol. Right in town so location is awesome! More than I wanted to spend on tight budget lol. At least the wife is letting me go. Especially since I was just there last year. Told her it's all PW people it's gonna be awesome I have to go LOL.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk/hopefully somewhere Offroad!
- 05PWrockcrawler
- 1000_Posts
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:56 pm
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
Oh yeah I'm booked 5/2/15 (Saturday) to 5/7/15. Will leave that Thursday morning to head back home to Texas so I can get back for Mothers Day.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk/hopefully somewhere Offroad!
- 05PWrockcrawler
- 1000_Posts
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- Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:56 pm
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
Pumped up for this hope my beater makes it there and back with no problems. It's been getting heavily abused lately lol.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk/hopefully somewhere Offroad!
- Pit Slave
- Vendor
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- Location: Sandy, Utah.. Moab, Jersey, Space Station, Baja.....
Re: MOAB 2015 PW rally!!!!!
Better hope your trans is in top shape! lol I'm waiting on ATS now for my built one to come in.05PWrockcrawler wrote:Pumped up for this hope my beater makes it there and back with no problems. It's been getting heavily abused lately lol.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk/hopefully somewhere Offroad!
I seem to have a habit of waiting till the last moment to book a place to stay in Moab. Still too early to book. Planing on arriving April 28 or 29 and leaving who knows when...

Nothing's more dead than a horse in a glue bottle.
There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation.
One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
John Adams - 1826
I guess you could say I'm a bit off center.....

There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation.
One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
John Adams - 1826
I guess you could say I'm a bit off center.....
