Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

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Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by Zlaayer » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:52 pm

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to this forum. I'm not a Power Wagon owner yet, but I intend to be. Lots of great information on here. I am interested in overlanding and the Power Wagon seems like a great platform. Lots of room. Lots of power. It's a god of the off road! But in my research I found something really intriguing. Have any of you seen the Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 Superam? It's like a Powerwagon on steroids!!! The price is EXORBITANT though. And I think much of the cost is baked into the convenience factor. What do you guys think?

Here are a few photos of the pamphlet and website for you to check out. I know everyone here seems to think that the gas engine is the way to go but I can see a lot of advantages to having a diesel engine despite the higher cost and weight. Better range for expeditions (especially with the optional 80 liter second gas tank on the RT25). Plus more towing power and better gas mileage for highway driving.

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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by Bill2014 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:56 am

That's pricey! :doh:

Seem's like we could build our own custom machine for at least $50k less :popcorn:
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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by trk4sale » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:56 am

Some recent discussion of this idea:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5596
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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by Zlaayer » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:36 pm

Hmm, I had originally attached a few more photos but the moderator appears to have removed some of them. Perhaps due to copyright issues? Anyway, that first photo doesn't do it justice. Here is a link to the brochure .pdf file.

https://pcor4x4.com.au/pricelists/pcor-superam.pdf

It's not just a diesel version of the PW. It's custom built from a Laramie 2500 to include off road capability similar to, or exceeding that of the Power Wagon. The rear box is custom built for overlanding and it has a front and rear winch, custom bumpers, custom lighting options, etc.

@trk4sale - Thanks for providing that link. The discussion seems to have come to a concensus that it's better to turn a diesel Ram into a PW than to turn a PW into a diesel. I think that's why Patriot started with the Laramie 2500.

@Bill2014 - By "we" are you referring to PW modders in general or do you own a shop that can do work like this?

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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by BoldAdventure » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:25 pm

Zlaayer wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:36 pm
Hmm, I had originally attached a few more photos but the moderator appears to have removed some of them. Perhaps due to copyright issues? Anyway, that first photo doesn't do it justice. Here is a link to the brochure .pdf file.

https://pcor4x4.com.au/pricelists/pcor-superam.pdf

It's not just a diesel version of the PW. It's custom built from a Laramie 2500 to include off road capability similar to, or exceeding that of the Power Wagon. The rear box is custom built for overlanding and it has a front and rear winch, custom bumpers, custom lighting options, etc.

@trk4sale - Thanks for providing that link. The discussion seems to have come to a concensus that it's better to turn a diesel Ram into a PW than to turn a PW into a diesel. I think that's why Patriot started with the Laramie 2500.

@Bill2014 - By "we" are you referring to PW modders in general or do you own a shop that can do work like this?
Nope. Not according to the logs.

That is by far the stupidest, most overpriced thing I have seen. And saying it's as capable is laughable. It has a shitty BDS lift. A lift we know is garbage. 20 inch wheels on 35's is also stupid. At least they added ARB lockers, but I don't even know if they bothered to upgrade the gearing.

There are full builds that are superior in my opinion that have cost less than that turd sandwich, which is designed for people with more money than brains.

Dave over at American Adventurist spent about 150k less than that turd.
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Plenty of Power Wagon owners with nice offroad campers for under 100k
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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by Zlaayer » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:02 pm

BoldAdventure you're a moderator? Every post I make has to be approved by a moderator before it can be posted but you can troll my thread? What is this communist China?

Yeah, obviously it's overpriced. And I never claimed to be an expert on four wheeling. In fact I know absolutely nothing. Which is why I am on this forum. So I can learn. Just trashing thing thing and calling it a turd without giving any real reasons why isn't helpful. Clearly I'm not gonna buy this thing. I just thought it was pretty cool. BoldAdventure, you seem to be firmly in the gasser camp. Which is cool. But from everything I've read, including posts written by many of the people on this forum, gas is not the end-all-be-all. There are definite advantages to diesel. I'm sure you're having fun stomping all over my thread but it's not very helpful. If you know of better builds post a few links.

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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by BoldAdventure » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:13 pm

Zlaayer wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:02 pm
BoldAdventure you're a moderator? Every post I make has to be approved by a moderator before it can be posted but you can troll my thread? What is this communist China?

Yeah, obviously it's overpriced. And I never claimed to be an expert on four wheeling. In fact I know absolutely nothing. Which is why I am on this forum. So I can learn. Just trashing thing thing and calling it a turd without giving any real reasons why isn't helpful. Clearly I'm not gonna buy this thing. I just thought it was pretty cool. BoldAdventure, you seem to be firmly in the gasser camp. Which is cool. But from everything I've read, including posts written by many of the people on this forum, gas is not the end-all-be-all. There are definite advantages to diesel. I'm sure you're having fun stomping all over my thread but it's not very helpful. If you know of better builds post a few links.
Dude, I'm not the admin. Calm the fuck down. Every new member has to be moderated, their first 3 or 4 posts I think. So we know you're not a spammer. The Admins are AWOL, so I can't change that. Believe me, I have to deny multiple spam posts every other day.

No one is trolling you. It's garbage because it's overpriced with nothing other than the rear platform build that justifies that prices listed. They're up charging on a bunch of stuff. BDS lift is not quality. Going to ride like butthole. These trucks, ALL RAM's become unstable with a center of gravity when you go over 3 inches on average of lift. Buddy of mine Chris rolled his with a BDS 5 inch lift.

Also, those lifts don't flex well. Witnessed that multiple times, on a 3rd gen and 4th gen that both struggled in Moab. The guy with the 4th gen BDS kit had blown 3 of his fox shocks over the course of a couple days in Moab.

Also, I never said anything about gas or diesel.

If you're going to hang around, you need to know to put on your big boy pants and know that we BS a lot around here. And that we don't beat around the bush. You're posting on the internet, people are going to give you their opinions.

I'm glad you thought it was cool. Might want to introduce yourself in the intros forum.

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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by Low_Sky » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:32 pm

This truck is for sale in AUSTRALIA, mates. They have some wacky rules about what they are and aren't allowed to do to vehicles down there. New Ram 2500's are priced about $150k AUD (just took a quick look online, don't know how flexible prices are down there). So this truck has about $65k AUD in modifications and add-ons. Really doesn't seem like exorbitant pricing to me given what's been done to the vehicle.
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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by BoldAdventure » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:42 pm

Low_Sky wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:32 pm
This truck is for sale in AUSTRALIA, mates. They have some wacky rules about what they are and aren't allowed to do to vehicles down there. New Ram 2500's are priced about $150k AUD (just took a quick look online, don't know how flexible prices are down there). So this truck has about $65k AUD in modifications and add-ons. Really doesn't seem like exorbitant pricing to me given what's been done to the vehicle.
That actually makes a lot more sense, I didn't even bother to see where it was being sold. That would put it on Par with say the AEV Prospector XL Tray bed, and I'd say the Aussie version is actually giving you a tad bit more with the utility of their bed and the front and rear lockers.

https://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicle ... -tray-bed/
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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by Low_Sky » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:12 pm

BoldAdventure wrote:
Low_Sky wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:32 pm
This truck is for sale in AUSTRALIA, mates. They have some wacky rules about what they are and aren't allowed to do to vehicles down there. New Ram 2500's are priced about $150k AUD (just took a quick look online, don't know how flexible prices are down there). So this truck has about $65k AUD in modifications and add-ons. Really doesn't seem like exorbitant pricing to me given what's been done to the vehicle.
That actually makes a lot more sense, I didn't even bother to see where it was being sold. That would put it on Par with say the AEV Prospector XL Tray bed, and I'd say the Aussie version is actually giving you a tad bit more with the utility of their bed and the front and rear lockers.

https://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicle ... -tray-bed/
Aussies know a thing or two about trays, that’s for sure.


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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by Zlaayer » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:30 pm

BoldAdventure wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:13 pm

Dude, I'm not the admin. Calm the fuck down. Every new member has to be moderated, their first 3 or 4 posts I think. So we know you're not a spammer. The Admins are AWOL, so I can't change that. Believe me, I have to deny multiple spam posts every other day.

If you're going to hang around, you need to know to put on your big boy pants and know that we BS a lot around here. And that we don't beat around the bush. You're posting on the internet, people are going to give you their opinions.
My britches are plenty big dude. I'm an Iraq war vet and a firefighter. But when the first thing I post gets trashed it doesn't exactly make me want to post on the forum.

I've never been on a forum that moderates the first three or four posts. Then again, I haven't been on any forums in years. Partly because trolls suck. But anyway, nice to meet you BoldAdventure. Hopefully I can learn a thing or two from you.
BoldAdventure wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:13 pm
I'm glad you thought it was cool. Might want to introduce yourself in the intros forum.

:cheers:
Hadn't considered introducing myself. This does seem like a small community. So I'll do that. Thanks.

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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by PWJouster » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:49 pm

@zlaayer

you werent being trolled, @boldadventure was trolling that aftermarket outfitter. they make statements that are not true, per the experience on this board alone.
some of their hardware is inferior
their wheel selection makes absolutely ZERO sense when it comes to over landing.
that suspension is going to suck

Diesels have two benefits, Mileage and towing capacity. although you see many diesel overlanders, our 6.4 is not short on power, only lacks in mileage capability.
you do not want to idle along a diesel, and a Cummins in our trucks are really heavy....

anyone would like to build one "Like" this with the tray and rear winch, but it is 100% convenience for these guys...a local shop could do better.
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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by PWJouster » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:55 pm

window tint $794....i paid $100 for my entire truck AND some lights.
dif breather kit $300
$4600 vinyl wrap?

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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by Zlaayer » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:59 pm

BoldAdventure wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:42 pm
Low_Sky wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:32 pm
This truck is for sale in AUSTRALIA, mates. They have some wacky rules about what they are and aren't allowed to do to vehicles down there. New Ram 2500's are priced about $150k AUD (just took a quick look online, don't know how flexible prices are down there). So this truck has about $65k AUD in modifications and add-ons. Really doesn't seem like exorbitant pricing to me given what's been done to the vehicle.
That actually makes a lot more sense, I didn't even bother to see where it was being sold. That would put it on Par with say the AEV Prospector XL Tray bed, and I'd say the Aussie version is actually giving you a tad bit more with the utility of their bed and the front and rear lockers.

https://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicle ... -tray-bed/

I didn't realize the markup for a Ram is that high in Australia. Wow I wonder if there's a tariff or some crazy taxes??? That would explain the exorbitant price tag. As I said before, clearly I wouldn't buy something this expensive. This thread was originally supposed to be more about the merits of the build. But people see that big ass sticker price and it steals the show lol. Actually, the originaly four screenshots I wanted to post didn't include the price tag for that very reason. I'll try to attach the photos again.

I actually really like the look of the AEV Prospector. And it's built in Detroit which seems like a big plus. Maybe a good plug 'n' play option for a novice? Still a big price tag though. I also read on another thread that the ARB air lockers are great off road but suck on road because you lose the limited slip capability. Thoughts on the Prospector XL?
PWJouster wrote:
Diesels have two benefits, Mileage and towing capacity. although you see many diesel overlanders, our 6.4 is not short on power, only lacks in mileage capability.
you do not want to idle along a diesel, and a Cummins in our trucks are really heavy....
Yeah the 6.4 definitely doesn't seem short on power, even for a heavy truck like the Ram 2500. I test drove the Cummins and the HEMI and they're both pretty impressive. I have read a lot of posts from people citing the weight as a major issue with the diesel. Why is weight such a big issue? Some of the stuff I've read suggests that the center of gravity shifts to be too high. Is that the major concern regarding weight?
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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by BoldAdventure » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:37 pm

Well, being Australian we can't convert the prices directly, which explains some of the markup. It looked dubious. But I've actually seen that kind thing with shops around here. There is a very popular shop in SoCal that people just keep going to, that trash talks Thuren and steers everyone into overpriced off the shelf systems because they get kickbacks. It's not that they are bad setups, it's just that, it's dubious. But that's just my opinion.

We travel a ton, and put a lot of miles offroad on this truck. Just about every other weekend. And we traveled fulltime for two years towing an Airstream and started with a 1500 and I still didn't think I needed a diesel. I don't think you really need one till you get into 10k ++ towing personally. And the range thing is sort of debatable when towing and adding mods. But diesel always inches out ahead. But as discussed a dozen times, when you look at total cost of ownership, gas beats diesel until you start putting loads and loads of miles on the diesel.

I chose a gasser because I didn't need a diesel, and it was easier maintenance and overall cheaper ownership. I moved to the PW, because we missed being about to overland like we had been previously and the 1500 was limited offroad.

And no way was I buying an RV to pull something smaller. :lol:
Zlaayer wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:59 pm
Yeah the 6.4 definitely doesn't seem short on power, even for a heavy truck like the Ram 2500. I test drove the Cummins and the HEMI and they're both pretty impressive. I have read a lot of posts from people citing the weight as a major issue with the diesel. Why is weight such a big issue? Some of the stuff I've read suggests that the center of gravity shifts to be too high. Is that the major concern regarding weight?
COG and the front end are different issues. Diesels tend to sink because there is more weight up front than in the rear. It's not really a huge issue on anything that is not soft. NTS007 on this forum was fine with us in Moab with his diesel Power Wagon build, until we put him in sand, lol :lol: and I got video of him getting stuck over and over again. Kinda happens with mud too. 4WD only helps so much ya know.

The gasser is a little more balanced. Diesel is more popular overseas with overlanders but those are also much smaller engines. American diesels are designed primarily around making power (specifically torque) for moving things.

It's not a huge issue, but it's a consideration. I mean there are some folks with bumpers on the front of their trucks that weigh close to 350lbs. I helped DamageWagon remove his old one, and that's how much it weighed. :jawdrop:

I have never found range to be a real issue when overlanding or offroad. We've done some long haul trips. But here in the states, usually you're going to hit a gas station or town. I have yet to find a trail that is past my gas tank range or further than the extra cans I carry.

Even the continental divide trail crosses towns and gas stations regularly enough.

The issue with COG is really how unbalanced the trucks and that's important when you're in an off camber situation.

For example, while I am jealous of 6 inch lifts, it'd do me zero favors in this situtation:

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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by RPS1030 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:40 pm

Zlaayer wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:59 pm
BoldAdventure wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:42 pm
Low_Sky wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:32 pm
This truck is for sale in AUSTRALIA, mates. They have some wacky rules about what they are and aren't allowed to do to vehicles down there. New Ram 2500's are priced about $150k AUD (just took a quick look online, don't know how flexible prices are down there). So this truck has about $65k AUD in modifications and add-ons. Really doesn't seem like exorbitant pricing to me given what's been done to the vehicle.
That actually makes a lot more sense, I didn't even bother to see where it was being sold. That would put it on Par with say the AEV Prospector XL Tray bed, and I'd say the Aussie version is actually giving you a tad bit more with the utility of their bed and the front and rear lockers.

https://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicle ... -tray-bed/

I didn't realize the markup for a Ram is that high in Australia. Wow I wonder if there's a tariff or some crazy taxes??? That would explain the exorbitant price tag. As I said before, clearly I wouldn't buy something this expensive. This thread was originally supposed to be more about the merits of the build. But people see that big ass sticker price and it steals the show lol. Actually, the originaly four screenshots I wanted to post didn't include the price tag for that very reason. I'll try to attach the photos again.

I actually really like the look of the AEV Prospector. And it's built in Detroit which seems like a big plus. Maybe a good plug 'n' play option for a novice? Still a big price tag though. I also read on another thread that the ARB air lockers are great off road but suck on road because you lose the limited slip capability. Thoughts on the Prospector XL?
PWJouster wrote:
Diesels have two benefits, Mileage and towing capacity. although you see many diesel overlanders, our 6.4 is not short on power, only lacks in mileage capability.
you do not want to idle along a diesel, and a Cummins in our trucks are really heavy....
Yeah the 6.4 definitely doesn't seem short on power, even for a heavy truck like the Ram 2500. I test drove the Cummins and the HEMI and they're both pretty impressive. I have read a lot of posts from people citing the weight as a major issue with the diesel. Why is weight such a big issue? Some of the stuff I've read suggests that the center of gravity shifts to be too high. Is that the major concern regarding weight?
The diesel puts a lot more weight over the front end. Normal diesels will legitimately get stuck on green grass in 2wd because of the weight distribution (yes green, doesn't even have to be wet to be slick enough to spin the rear tires). The intercooler is also in the same space as the winch on the PW, therefore pushing a winch further forward on an already long nosed truck.

The price tags for Prospectors and such are crazy stupid. 30-40k will pay for a LOT of fuel and the extra tanks if you need the storage. And a sweet King suspension setup from Thuren.

Stock 6.4 has no problem breaking my 37s loose. Doesn't struggle to tow a single vehicle on a open trailer beyond Engine Oil Temps on long grades. I was thinking about a diesel recently, but the current truck works too damn good as is.
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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by Zlaayer » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:24 pm

BoldAdventure wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:37 pm
COG and the front end are different issues. Diesels tend to sink because there is more weight up front than in the rear. It's not really a huge issue on anything that is not soft. NTS007 on this forum was fine with us in Moab with his diesel Power Wagon build, until we put him in sand, lol :lol: and I got video of him getting stuck over and over again. Kinda happens with mud too. 4WD only helps so much ya know.
I live in California. It's pretty dry in most places. But there's always the chance I could get stuck in mud or snow (I'm big into skiing). So +1 for gas vs diesel.
BoldAdventure wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:37 pm
The gasser is a little more balanced. Diesel is more popular overseas with overlanders but those are also much smaller engines. American diesels are designed primarily around making power (specifically torque) for moving things.
This explains a lot. A lot of the stuff I've found on YouTube is content created by Aussies. I've been following this guy named Ronny Dahl. He drives a Land Cruiser 79 diesel.
BoldAdventure wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:37 pm
I have never found range to be a real issue when overlanding or offroad. We've done some long haul trips. But here in the states, usually you're going to hit a gas station or town. I have yet to find a trail that is past my gas tank range or further than the extra cans I carry.

Even the continental divide trail crosses towns and gas stations regularly enough.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I gather the Power Wagon has a 33 gallon gas tank and averages around 14 miles per gallon off road and can stretch up to a maximum of 20 miles per gallon on highway. Add to that the extra weight of passengers and equipment and it seems to me I can expect a maximum range of around 450 miles while overlanding. Which is respectable I suppose. Everything I've read suggests that the diesel gets about 20-30% better gas mileage without towing and completely blows the HEMI out of the water while towing. The range is more important to me than the gas mileage. 30% more range means 30% less time spent finding gas stations. It means I can go further and maintain a fuel reserve without relying on jerrycans. I'm a firefighter and I used to be an aviator. I'm big on having reserve fuel for an emergency.

Wow, the lean in that picture would be a pant shitter for sure. I don't think I'd be comfortable taking ANY vehicle on something like that.

RPS1030 wrote:The price tags for Prospectors and such are crazy stupid. 30-40k will pay for a LOT of fuel and the extra tanks if you need the storage. And a sweet King suspension setup from Thuren.
Yeah it seems like these companies that sell turn-key off road packages are insanely overpriced. Just paying for convenience. And you give up a lot of customization options. But since I'm such a novice they do seem appealing. I'm sure I could harrass everyone I know and YouTube my face off and spackle together a decent package myself, but since I lack experience the biggest danger is investing in something and not understanding the drawbacks or pitfalls.

BoldAdventure makes a good point about Patriot marking things up. They seem to be really proud to slap their logo on anything big enough for it to be legible. Seems like more marketing than performance based. I really do think their trays and canopies kick ass though.

I intend to use my would-be Power Wagon for overlanding, hunting, fishing, and skiing. Planning a trip to Moab, Tahoe, and Alaska. This is something I want to keep for a very, very long time. I also intend to start a family soon so the Ram 2500 cab is very appealing. Plenty of room for a few kids and a dog.

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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by Low_Sky » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:41 pm

Zlaayer wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:24 pm
This explains a lot. A lot of the stuff I've found on YouTube is content created by Aussies. I've been following this guy named Ronny Dahl. He drives a Land Cruiser 79 diesel.
Ronny's channel is legit. 4WD Action is also pretty good, but it's a big time advertisement for the sponsors, but what do you expect from a "free DVD series". I think diesel is so popular down there for the (speaking generally) range, and availability/cost in the bush. Not really a concern in most parts of the US. I deal with similar issues here in Alaska, but I just carry extra fuel cans as needed (up to 6x 5 gal cans).
Zlaayer wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:24 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I gather the Power Wagon has a 33 gallon gas tank and averages around 14 miles per gallon off road and can stretch up to a maximum of 20 miles per gallon on highway. Add to that the extra weight of passengers and equipment and it seems to me I can expect a maximum range of around 450 miles while overlanding. Which is respectable I suppose. Everything I've read suggests that the diesel gets about 20-30% better gas mileage without towing and completely blows the HEMI out of the water while towing. The range is more important to me than the gas mileage. 30% more range means 30% less time spent finding gas stations. It means I can go further and maintain a fuel reserve without relying on jerrycans. I'm a firefighter and I used to be an aviator. I'm big on having reserve fuel for an emergency.
31 gallon tank. Those might be good economy numbers for a fully stock truck, but they don't stay stock for long. Add 35" or 37" offroad tires (which the truck really does need, for ground clearance), rock sliders, passengers, camping/recovery/mountainbiking/whatever gear. . . it starts to get out of hand. I get about 12 mpg highway (65-75 mph, lots of hills, curves and passing), and about 9 mpg city. In a day of trail riding with lots of 4LO, idling, etc. . . . . fuggedabowdit. I don't even bother calculating it. I have 35" tires, rock sliders, and probably a couple hundred pounds of "stuff" that permanently lives in the truck.

The PWs are great trucks. I love mine. They are not cheap to buy or operate.
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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by BoldAdventure » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:37 pm

Zlaayer wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:24 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I gather the Power Wagon has a 33 gallon gas tank and averages around 14 miles per gallon off road and can stretch up to a maximum of 20 miles per gallon on highway. Add to that the extra weight of passengers and equipment and it seems to me I can expect a maximum range of around 450 miles while overlanding. Which is respectable I suppose. Everything I've read suggests that the diesel gets about 20-30% better gas mileage without towing and completely blows the HEMI out of the water while towing. The range is more important to me than the gas mileage. 30% more range means 30% less time spent finding gas stations. It means I can go further and maintain a fuel reserve without relying on jerrycans. I'm a firefighter and I used to be an aviator. I'm big on having reserve fuel for an emergency.

Wow, the lean in that picture would be a pant shitter for sure. I don't think I'd be comfortable taking ANY vehicle on something like that.
I've actually found that diesel is harder to find in the US in remote areas than gas. Which I figured it wouldn't be. because you'd think farmers and shit would be all over diesel. But over here in Idaho, Montana and Colorado, the small towns just don't seem to be stalking it. Which is odd to me.

Also, since you're in Cali, they have diesel with sulfur down there in Baja if you ever feel like going south, gas is just easier than dealing with the DEF crapola unless you get an older diesel.

I just don't believe that range is an issue. Not in the states by any means. I can't believe 20-30% offroad. The guys on the fullsize group claim they're averaging 12mpg which is what I'm getting on 37's. And I'd argue all day I'm out there putting more miles on my rig in the backcountry than most of these Instagram dorks car camping in their Tacomas at Trona Pinnacles. I've been up and down 395 all over out there.

I'm hauling a truck around loaded with a family of 5 all over, and I haven't ever dipped into the spare tanks yet. We've come close, but never to the point of worry. Knock on wood.

I guess if I lived in Alaska or Cunkastan I might re-evaluate that opinion.

I have no doubts a diesel tows better. I didn't notice 35's when towing, but 37's have had a big impact. I'm moving to 5.13 gears later this year. But I don't really tow over 65mph so it hasn't been that bad. But it's def not as good as it was stock on 33's.

Image

I'm pretty sure though if I towed big and heavy regularly, up mountain passes and was keeping the truck for the next 5 yrs minimum, I'd have a diesel tomorrow.

But right now, problems I don't have.

Low_Sky wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:41 pm
31 gallon tank. Those might be good economy numbers for a fully stock truck, but they don't stay stock for long. Add 35" or 37" offroad tires (which the truck really does need, for ground clearance), rock sliders, passengers, camping/recovery/mountainbiking/whatever gear. . . it starts to get out of hand. I get about 12 mpg highway (65-75 mph, lots of hills, curves and passing), and about 9 mpg city. In a day of trail riding with lots of 4LO, idling, etc. . . . . fuggedabowdit. I don't even bother calculating it. I have 35" tires, rock sliders, and probably a couple hundred pounds of "stuff" that permanently lives in the truck.

The PWs are great trucks. I love mine. They are not cheap to buy or operate.
I'm telling you guys, the sweet spots on these trucks is def around 62mph. Over 65mph and the MPG just tanks. We did 80mph coming back from Colorado over labor day and I got the worse MPG I've ever recorded. Didn't help we had a head wind.

And this seems counter intuitive, but I think we're getting better MPG offroad in 4LO than we did on the road. At least we did in Colorado. I barely was down a quarter of a tank after doing the whole Alpine Loop. Granted it was only like 72 miles total, but it is climbing to 12,000ft the whole time.

I'm curious to see what gears are gonna do for me.
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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by Zlaayer » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:39 pm

Low_Sky wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:41 pm
31 gallon tank. Those might be good economy numbers for a fully stock truck, but they don't stay stock for long. Add 35" or 37" offroad tires (which the truck really does need, for ground clearance), rock sliders, passengers, camping/recovery/mountainbiking/whatever gear. . . it starts to get out of hand. I get about 12 mpg highway (65-75 mph, lots of hills, curves and passing), and about 9 mpg city. In a day of trail riding with lots of 4LO, idling, etc. . . . . fuggedabowdit. I don't even bother calculating it. I have 35" tires, rock sliders, and probably a couple hundred pounds of "stuff" that permanently lives in the truck.

The PWs are great trucks. I love mine. They are not cheap to buy or operate.
The cost isn't so much the concern. If I was that concerned about money I would not be entertaining the idea of a Power Wagon at all. The bigger concern is range. 9 miles per gallong puts the range below 300 miles. The diesel gets better mileage and range and I do want the option of towing later on down the road maybe in five years when I have a kid or two.

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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by BoldAdventure » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:43 pm

The dudes getting terrible mileage, especially the ones in the FB group on stock 33's need to just admit it's their driving. :poke:

:lol: :P
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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by BoldAdventure » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:56 pm

If you're going to buy new, I think the real question is, how much additional money/time do you want to spend setting up the rig? And how will you use it over the long term.

That really matters the most for what you buy.

For myself, I was already traveling fulltime. Didn't want to fuss with a shop, and didn't have a place to do my own mods. The PW meant I could literally start wheeling the same day. Which we did. We bought ours in Las Vegas and went out to the offroad area behind Valley of Fire in Moapa.

These trucks are super capable in stock trim. A stock Power Wagon can tackle most of Moab's "jeep" trails with a good spotter. Hell, my wife drove all of Hells Revenge stock, including the obstacles:
phpBB [video]

Clickable link for Tapatalk

Hell we put mostly stock Power Wagons up Moab Rim this year. All the one guy had was sliders, but he still was on 35's! Hmm... seems I never posted a picture of his rig on https://www.instagram.com/offroadpowerwagon/

Image

Image

Also, if you buy a Power Wagon, you are in the club man. Myself, my wife and two others host Power Wagons in Moab each year >> https://powerwagonsinmoab.com - forgive me, I'm behind in updating the site, but we're opening registration for 2019 soon.

And we're planning on doing a Power Wagons in Colorado in 2019 too.

:cheers:

And, full disclosure, Ram sponsored me, but we cough cough may have the 2020 at PWIM 2019 this year.

That's hush hush for now,

:cheers:
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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by RPS1030 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:22 pm

It feels like MPG numbers on the internet are as believable as Reality TV. I’ve seen diesel numbers anywhere from 12-22. Driving style makes a huge difference.

If you are a newbie, why go full bore, get an overpriced rig, which takes you further before you get stuck worse? The stock PW is amazingly capable. It is an amazing platform to learn the skills to tackle more challenging trails/obstacles/situations.

Figure out what you like and dislike about the stock truck and upgrade from there.
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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by Zlaayer » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:43 pm

BoldAdventure wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:56 pm
If you're going to buy new, I think the real question is, how much additional money/time do you want to spend setting up the rig? And how will you use it over the long term.

That really matters the most for what you buy.

For myself, I was already traveling fulltime. Didn't want to fuss with a shop, and didn't have a place to do my own mods. The PW meant I could literally start wheeling the same day. Which we did. We bought ours in Las Vegas and went out to the offroad area behind Valley of Fire in Moapa.
Money is an issue right now but it won't be in about a year. I'm not afraid to do my homework and I'm patient. I know most people buy vehicles expecting to use them for 5 years or so but to me this is a 10-15 year investment. And since I lack experience I want to make sure I buy the right platform from the beginning. I would rather spend more money and wait for the right moment to get something that suits my needs. The Power Wagon does appear to be super capable, but it lacks the diesel which I'm going to want in five years. I think it's gonna be pretty hard to convince the wife to take babies out with a roof top tent. I'm sure I'll end up having to haul an Airstream or something to accommodate her and kids creature comfort. In my humble opinion the current model Ram 2500 is the best looking truck ever made. The Prospector is a diesel and it is equally as chunky and awesome looking as the PW.
BoldAdventure wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:56 pm
These trucks are super capable in stock trim. A stock Power Wagon can tackle most of Moab's "jeep" trails with a good spotter. Hell, my wife drove all of Hells Revenge stock, including the obstacles:

Hell we put mostly stock Power Wagons up Moab Rim this year. All the one guy had was sliders, but he still was on 35's! Hmm... seems I never posted a picture of his rig on https://www.instagram.com/offroadpowerwagon/
Do you find that the long wheelbase and the fact that it's wider and taller than a jeep to be a hindrance on trails?
BoldAdventure wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:56 pm
Also, if you buy a Power Wagon, you are in the club man. Myself, my wife and two others host Power Wagons in Moab each year >> https://powerwagonsinmoab.com - forgive me, I'm behind in updating the site, but we're opening registration for 2019 soon.

And we're planning on doing a Power Wagons in Colorado in 2019 too.
Can I be in the club if I buy a Power Wagon and use Prospector mods on it? ;) What if I put a Patriot canopy on the back? Is there any merit to the rumors of a diesel option on the 2020 PW?

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Re: Patriot Campers Off Road (PTOR) RT25 SUPERam

Post by Zlaayer » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:45 pm

RPS1030 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:22 pm
Figure out what you like and dislike about the stock truck and upgrade from there.
Thumbs up to this. But the Prospector can be built at their factory and delivered ready to go. As expensive as it is I think it would cost even more to outfit it similarly a la carte. I also have no idea where to find a good shop to do this kind of work in my area.

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