A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

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adeluca73
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by adeluca73 » Wed May 09, 2018 1:50 pm

MikeKey wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 12:46 pm
adeluca73 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 4:39 pm

Wow, after all that, I got you didn't play sports, were a DnD nerd, think game of thrones is appointment TV, and were the chapter President of the local 4-H, good work.

Kids in 4-H play sports and aren't DnD nerds.
Excellent...they also have an infinity for animals, farm animals, big farm animals, and farm animal pageants.
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by adeluca73 » Wed May 09, 2018 1:52 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 1:41 pm
adeluca73 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 12:27 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 10:27 am


Lets see, soft handmaidens in corsets...or...Iceman and Maverick playing beach volleyball, oiled up, and the winner gets to play hide the tailhook in the afterburner. I know, tough choice.
Standard civilian mistake. The Air Force and Navy are two different services. The navy is the service that packs 5000 dudes in a metal container and floats them around the globe like a rubber ducky in a tub. It's ok though, lots of folks confuse the two...it's like me confusing Harry Potter & a Magic Convention with Robin Hood at renaissance festival. Nothing like chugging copious amounts of period correct Natty Light out of a wooden mug and watching an ole jousting match at Medieval Times and screaming like the idiots at the Iron Bowl for the "red Knights" to slay the wretched "blue Knights" whilst summoning the waitress with calls of "wench, I thirst, request ye charge my chalice" to which the girl (a co-ed at the local J-co), flashes you a quick hate dart and the international communications signal (ask Goose, he knows)....tough choice.
Ever notice Major Nelson never tried to band Jeannie? Sorry the Navy wouldn't let you on their boat.
I think Major Nelson was a missileer, not a real AF officer, he probably wanted to "band" Uhura--all space nerds did.
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Wed May 09, 2018 6:11 pm

adeluca73 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 1:50 pm
MikeKey wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 12:46 pm
adeluca73 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 4:39 pm

Wow, after all that, I got you didn't play sports, were a DnD nerd, think game of thrones is appointment TV, and were the chapter President of the local 4-H, good work.

Kids in 4-H play sports and aren't DnD nerds.
Excellent...they also have an infinity for animals, farm animals, big farm animals, and farm animal pageants.
I like pork chops, I'd like an infinity of them.
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by TwinStick » Wed May 09, 2018 8:15 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 10:24 am
Retired BLM Rig wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 9:33 am


Unfortunately your sorrows will not end until someone does a thorough inspection of every component of the valve train.
Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

They had the heads off already, if they were going to check they would have. Maybe a new engine is a blessing in disguise.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHyJz1GCgjs
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Wed May 09, 2018 9:54 pm

Putting the Maverick and Iceman sword fighting aside for a moment, there is an update.

I had to call and drag the update out of this small market, shit-heal, dealer...but none the less. FCA wants pictures of the valve train which means a tear down of the cylinder heads. The dealer is bracing me for months (multiple) wait for the job to be completed. I laughed and asked them when they would recommend a lemon-law buy back since we're at five weeks thus far due in large part to their incompetence? The service writer assured me he is my advocate and I am his number one concern (LUUUUUULLLLLLZZZZZZZZ).

I'm considering driving their loaner for work which is usually about 6k miles a month. How 'bout dat!
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Bill2014 » Thu May 10, 2018 7:37 am

Certainly there mush have been a GROUP HUG involved... :secret:
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by adeluca73 » Thu May 10, 2018 8:27 am

Reloaderguy wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:54 pm
Putting the Maverick and Iceman sword fighting aside for a moment, there is an update.

I had to call and drag the update out of this small market, shit-heal, dealer...but none the less. FCA wants pictures of the valve train which means a tear down of the cylinder heads. The dealer is bracing me for months (multiple) wait for the job to be completed. I laughed and asked them when they would recommend a lemon-law buy back since we're at five weeks thus far due in large part to their incompetence? The service writer assured me he is my advocate and I am his number one concern (LUUUUUULLLLLLZZZZZZZZ).

I'm considering driving their loaner for work which is usually about 6k miles a month. How 'bout dat!

Wait, WHAT? This went from a funny hahaha story, to a "whoa that's deep man" saga. Your truck is a '15 right, or was it '16 (I forget which yr constitutes the "best gen"-I have an 'affinity' ;) for the '14's)? Lemon laws are state-by-state, in Oregon it's 2yrs/24K Miles.

Oregon’s lemon law extends protection to two years or 24,000 miles from the purchase or lease of a new vehicle. If your vehicle is a lemon, you can receive a replacement or a refund, less a reasonable allowance for use of the vehicle.

https://www.dmv.org/or-oregon/automotiv ... on-law.php

Either way, you're probably at the right side stops on time, so if you were serious with pressing a lemon law suit, no hesitation is the rule of the day...good luck man, multiple months after 1.5 already is a no-go, and YES, I'd drive their loaner like I drive rentals--like I stole it... :D
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Thu May 10, 2018 9:26 am

My truck is a '16, has 20K miles, and I've owned it for 2 years and three months. I'm not sure how bad I want to lemon-law the truck since it's not really a lemon, the local dealer is just a bad actor.

The problem is the dealership is incompetent and nearly everything they've said to this point has been incorrect. I travel a lot so the dealer gets my truck five days at a time minimum, regardless of weather or not they use the time. The time is also cumulative, not concurrent. Five days to plug in a computer and tell me everything is fine (it wasn't), a week to re-diagnose with a stethoscope the bad lifters (it wasn't), a week to change the lifters (no change), and now rounding out three weeks (next Monday) to get FCA involved. I've missed three separate trips also as a result.
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Thu May 10, 2018 9:29 am

Bill2014 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:37 am
Certainly there mush have been a GROUP HUG involved... :secret:
More like a mouth hug.
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by adeluca73 » Thu May 10, 2018 11:08 am

Reloaderguy wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 9:29 am
Bill2014 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:37 am
Certainly there mush have been a GROUP HUG involved... :secret:
More like a mouth hug.
Free mustache rides :mrgreen:
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by TwinStick » Thu May 10, 2018 4:14 pm

Seriously, I think it is time for a face-to-face sit down with the owner of the dealership. Tell them, it's not personal, just business. You want your truck fixed properly, that's all. Then ask them if they think their time/money is worth more than yours, because it's not. Then get into all the inconvenience that their failure to diagnose & fix properly has caused you & your family. That is what I did (my words can NOT explain how difficult it was for me to not cuss these fuckers out). I remained as calm as I could & dug in. They ultimately ended up having one of their "master mechanics" go somewhere to be trained on the PW rear locker & axle. They also had to fly a tool in that the dealer was too cheap to purchase for themselves. Ultimately, they fixed it properly. But 2 of the weeks they had my truck, i was on vacation, which meant no camping or doing any truck stuff. I sucks, I feel for ya. Hang in there.

I told them "a man's got to know his limitations", there is nothing wrong with that. If you don't know what's wrong with it, that's fine, just admit it & make a new plan of attack but DO NOT BLOW SMOKE UP MY ASS. Get someone here that can figure this out. Maybe ask them if there is any engine experts at another dealer that could look at it.

Keep us posted please.

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In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Thu May 10, 2018 6:48 pm

FCA is supposed to be looking at the truck today. Do you think the engineer will be impressed with Damage Wagon's welding skills?
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Fri May 11, 2018 7:56 pm

Aaaaaaaaaand, we're back to "it's supposed to be like that". FCA claims it's injector echos or some such thing.The dealer is saying they definitely heard abnormal lifter noise before and it's gone now (neither is true). This process is insulting to say the least.
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by RustyPW » Fri May 11, 2018 11:43 pm

"injector echos". That's a new one. What else they got? :roll:
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Sat May 12, 2018 12:44 am

RustyPW wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:43 pm
"injector echos". That's a new one. What else they got? :roll:
The service manager (the new one, not the old one from last week) seemed genuinely hurt when I told him I thought they were worthless parts changers. I think "XX year veteran technician" is a term they teach at the 'service department' school, even the new service manager was eager to drop it. He said the FCA engineer told him the "injector echo" was amplified by the extra space in the wheel well from my lift. I laughed at him and he seemed uncomfortable.

I think the tech changed my lifters to get paid the flat rate to make up for the lost diagnostic time FCA isn't going to pay for. The service manager (ahem, the new one) said they had five hours of diagnostic work that wouldn't get paid. I'm not certain anymore if they even thought the lifters were a problem. When I suggested their "XX year veteran technician" was lying he was surprised. There's no shame in telling the truth, I don't like being treated like a fool so I'll probably file a complaint with FCA. They'll probably be in full damage control on Monday morning when I'm scheduled to pick the truck up.
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Bill2014 » Mon May 14, 2018 8:34 am

Surely they huddled on the weekend and rehearsed for the Monday morning presentation! :run:
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by TwinStick » Mon May 14, 2018 10:59 am

Bill2014 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:34 am
Surely they huddled on the weekend and rehearsed for the Monday morning presentation! :run:

^^^^^^^^^This, yup, definitely this !!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :angry:
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon May 14, 2018 12:47 pm

Everyone had an unexpected meeting except the lowest guy on the totem pole. There's really nothing left to talk about anyway. I'm going to file a complaint with FCA this week.

There's no shame in telling me there's nothing that can be done. Lying about the work done is where we have a problem. They put 4 miles on my truck and used half a tank of fuel.
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Low_Sky » Mon May 14, 2018 1:10 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 12:47 pm
Everyone had an unexpected meeting except the lowest guy on the totem pole. There's really nothing left to talk about anyway. I'm going to file a complaint with FCA this week.

There's no shame in telling me there's nothing that can be done. Lying about the work done is where we have a problem. They put 4 miles on my truck and used half a tank of fuel.
Must have been a fun four miles. What a goat rodeo this is turning out to be.
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon May 14, 2018 1:56 pm

If I were to guess, they probably drove the truck just a little and let it idle the rest of the time.
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by NickTF » Wed May 16, 2018 8:09 am

Reloader, did you notice a drop in oil pressure of approximately 4 psi at idle when this roared it's ugly head (I'm 99% sure I used to see no less than 29psi at idle ever, now i'm down around 25, oil pressure comes up to low 40s as low as 1100-1200rpm, high 40s-low 50s anything north of 1800rpm)? I just went through this with the dealer on my 2015 and they told me it was fine ofcourse. I've been around motors and valvetrains for over 19 years, if I bring something in due to a suspect sound there is a reason for my suspicion which should not be easily dismissed. My truck has 55,000 miles on it and has 21 months left on the warranty. My suspicions ranged between a bad wrist pin motor (my truck build date is January 2015 according to door sticker) or a lifter. From day one every now and then I get a nasty lifter pump up sound during a cold start. Now, the sound/tap is there steadily while cold and there as well while warm.

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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Wed May 16, 2018 9:17 am

I'm not sure but I'll check this weekend. All sound is normal when cold.
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by NickTF » Wed May 16, 2018 10:03 am

Hmmmm maybe I need to have a look to see if I have a manifold leak which could produce a similar sound.

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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by NickTF » Wed May 16, 2018 10:54 am

Stopped by my buddy’s bay who works for gm as a master world tech (whatever designation is, he is very qualified). Said definitely lifters and that they have the same issue with gm’s eco Lifters which shut down when called to for economy. Their service writer put in a call for me to another dealer. We will see what they say.

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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by NickTF » Thu May 17, 2018 10:31 am

So the second dealership I took it to at my buddy's referral tried the same "it's normal" bs because no diagnostic codes. I spoke with the "master tech" and asked him to come out with me so I could demonstrate the noise and also take him for a ride to demonstrate the part throttle surge i now have with the converter locked and motor loaded between 1200-1700rpm. After my demonstration the tech agreed that he needs to look into it further via FCA's procedures and a likely tear down. I hope to have some news today. The motor needs to miss pretty significantly apparently for a code to be thrown and I don't think it's missing bad enough yet. However, the noise alone should warrant further investigation. Knocking the hell out of some wood to hope that this issue is taken care of. It is grass cutting season and being without the truck is not good for my grass cutting side business. Further, I don't think my wife's Edge will be up to pulling our 7300lb boat let alone retrieving it up a steep boat ramp.

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