Cactus Red's Build - 2009 Power Wagon

[NovA ProspekT]

Got 31000 miles out of the 315/70-17 Cooper ST Pros. All in all, they were an excellent tire. Very good traction, very tough sidewalls.

But, as part of now towing our new camper, I decided to go back to stock tires in a slightly less aggressive tread pattern. The truck is now wearing 285/70-17 Cooper ST Maxx's. Same carcass construction as the Pro's, I trust they will be as durable for us, and hopefully get a bit more power and MPG's over the larger tire.

Congrat's on the camper.

I've had 37" S/T Maxx's on my truck since last January, put about 18,000 miles on them so far on everything from dirt-roads to thick-mud and 2ft deep snow and they've been great! Fantastic "do-it-all" tire, you're gonna love them.

[gun45boat]

Holy shit.... 6.1mpg? OUCH!!!!!! The smaller tires and less aggressive tread pattern will help,,,but not by much. Hemi's where never known for their fuel economy, no matter what you do... I found the key to acceptance of shitty MPG, is just to NEVER LOOK

Nice trailer.. Just be many years of great times in that unit..

[Cactus Red]

Well, we had a terrible first trip on the Cooper ST Maxx's while towing the trailer. I checked the hitch, played with air pressure front and rear, and still had severe sway in wind and steep downhill grades at freeway speeds. I had to slow to 45 MPH and continue to hit the trailer brakes down Copper Canyon on I-17 to Camp Verde. Even on flat ground, it felt like we were on jello. Winds were steady at 20+, gusts to 35 MPH, but that's not uncommon here, and we'd towed in similar conditions with the old worn STT Pro's with no problems. I suspect the small, tall, and soft lugs had a lot to do with it.

So, the guys at Discount have replaced them with a set of Toyo AT2's 285/70-17's. I'll get a photo up when they arrive.

On the good side, I saw the expected improvement in MPG. We were able to hold third gear at 3K for much longer on grades vs running 4K in second. MPG averaged 8.0 even for the 160 miles we traveled - that's a huge improvement.

[gun45boat]

agreed... 8mpg is certainly better I have been very pleased with My toyo's (35's) this will be my 4th CC trip on them in the cummins, and they are still more than half tread. Been the best towing tires I've ever owned. They will treat you well.. I hope you see better than 8mpg though, that gets old when you have a 35 gallon tank.

[ghaugo]

I have been looking at those Outdoor RV trailers. How do you like it so far? Do you feel like it is too much for the PW? I live in CO, and I would like to get a camper similar in size to yours, so I wanted to know if you felt like it was a good combo?

[BoldAdventure]

What kinda anti-sway hitch ya got on that thing?

[Cactus Red]

The ODRV trailer is perfect for the west. Solidly built, well insulated, huge water capacity, 235/80-16 tires and excellent suspension, what's not to like?

It's heavy, but the truck does fine. Figure 45 to 50 MPH at 4k rpm on steep grades with stock tires. Regular roads are no big deal.

We are using a Camco/EazLift Elite 10K rated hitch, with a single sway control unit. It levels the truck easily with the bars set at 12 degs down when loose, parallel when attached. Air bags only need 20 PSI to give the truck a very slight rake before hitching up.

[NovA ProspekT]

Well, we had a terrible first trip on the Cooper ST Maxx's while towing the trailer.
...

Look's like I spoke too soon.

Were they the same load range & size as the STT's? The only difference between the S/T MAXX and the STT's is the tread pattern, so...that's really odd.

[Cactus Red]

The STT Pros were 315/70-17's at 30K, so they were well worn. Both were E rated, but lower pressure on the 315's for max weight capacity.

[TwinStick]

Did both have 3 ply sidewalls ? If so, maybe rubber was a softer compound ? Sometimes, a load range "D" tire has the same weight rating (3195 lbs) as load range "E" tire & requires lower air pressure as a result. Tires sure are funny, the way they are rated & constructed, from mfg. to mfg. .

[NovA ProspekT]

Did both have 3 ply sidewalls ? If so, maybe rubber was a softer compound ? Sometimes, a load range "D" tire has the same weight rating (3195 lbs) as load range "E" tire & requires lower air pressure as a result. Tires sure are funny, the way they are rated & constructed, from mfg. to mfg. .

They STT PRO and S/T MAXX both have the "Armor Tek3" 3-ply sidewall. I'm pretty sure they're the same tread compound as well.

[Cactus Red]

The carcass construction was why I went with the Copper - the Pro was an excellent tire. I suspect the Maxx is as well if not towing heavy. I wonder if it's the tall small lugs causing tread squirm.

In any case, they are gone, and the Toyo AT2's are on. We'll give them a test soon. They already feel more stable.

[gun45boat]

Cant go wrong with the Toyo At2's Haven't done me wrong in 80K of stupid heavy towing, and abuses in Baja..

[coder]

So, the guys at Discount have replaced them with a set of Toyo AT2's 285/70-17's. I'll get a photo up when they arrive.

Back to stock size no 35's?

[Cactus Red]

Yeah, we're towing heavy - we'll have better gear ratios/MPG with stockers. The truck is changing it's duties to some extent - we have a JKUR to take the hard trail miles. The truck will still get it's work in tho, but I'll have to be a bit more careful of the diffs.

[Cactus Red]

Measured trailer tongue weight - it came in at roughly 1400 lbs with tanks empty. So the EazLift Elite 1000 hitch will be for sale shortly, and it's being replaced by a Blue Ox SwayPro 1500. I'll also be trying to move a couple items out of the front storage compartment to lighten it some. Most of the front weight is in the two US Battery 2200 6V batteries and two 30 Lb propane tanks. It's unlikely we'll carry all 90 gallons of water, or have all the black and grey water tanks (120 gallons) full, so I need to figure out a typical loaded tongue weight. Should get an answer to that this weekend.

The Toyo's worked great last weekend. MPG went up from 6.1 to 7.8 on a trip that gains 2700' of elevation in roughly 60 miles, most of it in a 15 mil climb from Ashfork to Williams, AZ. I expect to see 8.5 or better on flat ground.

[EasyDoesIt]

The Toyo's worked great last weekend. MPG went up from 6.1 to 7.8 on a trip that gains 2700' of elevation in roughly 60 miles, most of it in a 15 mil climb from Ashfork to Williams, AZ. I expect to see 8.5 or better on flat ground.

Your trailer looks nice. How does it hold up on washboard roads?

Here I thought my 6-7 MPG when towing my 7k (roughly) toy hauler was because my 37" tires and 4.10 gears. Sounds like thats about right for the 6.4 Hemi.

I need to get to the scales to get my hitch setup correctly and confirm the 7k.

[Cactus Red]

The trailer does excellent on washboard roads. My wife left a plastic hair clip on the bathroom sink, and after 5 miles of severe washboard and 60 miles of highway, it was still there. The upgraded suspension package (MORryde CRE 3000) and shocks on the BackCounty model is phenomenal.

[EasyDoesIt]

The upgraded suspension package (MORryde CRE 3000) and shocks on the BackCounty model is phenomenal.

Nice, I'll look into the MORryde CRE 3000 system. I've not had much luck finding RV Shocks besides the Lippert stuff. I do mostly offgrid camping and most roads are dirt and pretty rough.

[Cactus Red]

Outdoors RV uses Monroe Gas shocks.

[TwinStick]

MOST stated hitch weights are on the laughable list. And they are empty, I mean bone empty, nothing, zero, nada- in or on the camper. No propane, batteries, camping gear, water, wood, supplies, food, nothing. Our 2005 Keystone Tail Gator had a 1150lb dry hitch weight, add camping gear, tools, propane, 2 big batteries, water @ 8.3 lbs per gallon x 100 gallons & the tank was in front of axles, all adds up quickly. I suspected ours was 2000-2500 lbs when loaded up. Even with the 1 ton helper springs I had to lower the weight onto the ball, lock it down, then use the jack again to jack up the truck and trailer, just to be able to get the weight distribution/anti sway bars in place. if I didn't do that, there was no way to get them in, truck was squatted too much, even with longer, curved leverage bar. I was walking the tightrope with my truck & that trailer. Glad it is gone.

[olyelr]

... Even with the 1 ton helper springs I had to lower the weight onto the ball, lock it down, then use the jack again to jack up the truck and trailer, just to be able to get the weight distribution/anti sway bars in place. if I didn't do that, there was no way to get them in, truck was squatted too much, even with longer, curved leverage bar. I was walking the tightrope with my truck & that trailer. Glad it is gone.

I thought that was pretty much the only way to install the wd bars. That is how I have always done it, anyway. If they just slipped into place then they would not serve much of a purpose.

[olyelr]

Cactus Red, if you liked the STT pros so well, how come you didnt get them in a 285?

[EasyDoesIt]

The trailer does excellent on washboard roads. My wife left a plastic hair clip on the bathroom sink, and after 5 miles of severe washboard and 60 miles of highway, it was still there. The upgraded suspension package (MORryde CRE 3000) and shocks on the BackCounty model is phenomenal.

I'm one step closer to a keeping my trailer in one piece on back roads...intslled the CRE3000s today. Shocks are in my future.

Thanks for the heads up on the kit.

[Cactus Red]

Decided MPG's were more important than traction. The AT2"s are much more efficient than the knobby's.

Let us know how you like the CRE system and shocks! Did you go with the wet bolt setup as well?