Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

If it's about Power Wagons, this is where it'll go.
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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Rodeoflyer » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:53 pm

Ive never owned a raptor but being an automotive fan in general I do go and visit their forums to hear the lowdown when new models are released. They've always acted like that.

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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by BoldAdventure » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:19 pm

The Raptor is a lot like the AEV Prospector XL
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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by nts007 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:46 pm

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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by NickTF » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:07 am

Love reading articles like this confirming what I've experienced since 2015! I do wish that Ram had done a better job with our transmission behavior, I felt like the characteristics listed for the zr2 are quite similar to the way my power wagon behaves albeit the 6.4 isn't a gutless wonder below 2500rpm. Also, the way my trans can be reluctant to shift into high gear once 60-65mph cruise is reached can get a little annoying as well. That's literally about all the complaint I have for my truck.

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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Sweet5ltr » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:31 am

Raptor owners are imploding, it's hysterical reading the replies on that forum. Everything from 'incorrect tire pressure' to 'Ram rigged the testing' is being discussed.

Why is it such a controversy, the Raptor lost to two vehicles with better approach, breakover, and departure angles. Not only that, the other two vehicles had front and rear locking diffs and naturally aspirated engines. Unless the 3.5 twin-turbo engine is under load, it's not building positive manifold pressure continuously like a typical belt-driven roots/twin-screw style blower. Turbo engines make phenomenal torque as they're incredibly efficient, but only at WOT or under an extreme load! The Raptor is engineered to be the best factory production vehicle for 'Baja 1000 style' high-speed off roading. Unfortunately, nearly no realistic off-roading scenario is done this way, so it's no surprise that it lost in this type of real-world testing.
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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Ducky's Dad » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:32 am

They've always acted like that.
Probably because their flat billed caps are too tight.

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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by BoldAdventure » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:52 am

Sweet5ltr wrote:Raptor owners are imploding, it's hysterical reading the replies on that forum. Everything from 'incorrect tire pressure' to 'Ram rigged the testing' is being discussed.

Why is it such a controversy, the Raptor lost to two vehicles with better approach, breakover, and departure angles. Not only that, the other two vehicles had front and rear locking diffs and naturally aspirated engines. Unless the 3.5 twin-turbo engine is under load, it's not building positive manifold pressure continuously like a typical belt-driven roots/twin-screw style blower. Turbo engines make phenomenal torque as they're incredibly efficient, but only at WOT or under an extreme load! The Raptor is engineered to be the best factory production vehicle for 'Baja 1000 style' high-speed off roading. Unfortunately, nearly no realistic off-roading scenario is done this way, so it's no surprise that it lost in this type of real-world testing.

Basically what I've been saying about the Rapturd forever. :cheers: You hit the nail on the head. It is way more of a niche vehicle than anyone realizes. And it doesn't translate well to other forms of offroading nearly as well as you'd think.
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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Chromolykid » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:10 pm

NickTF wrote:Love reading articles like this confirming what I've experienced since 2015! I do wish that Ram had done a better job with our transmission behavior, I felt like the characteristics listed for the zr2 are quite similar to the way my power wagon behaves albeit the 6.4 isn't a gutless wonder below 2500rpm. Also, the way my trans can be reluctant to shift into high gear once 60-65mph cruise is reached can get a little annoying as well. That's literally about all the complaint I have for my truck.
Also my main gripe! The 8-speed would do great in our trucks... Just without that rotary dial. :doh:
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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by RustyPW » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:36 pm

Rodeoflyer wrote:I do remember the ford lightning but like this one better:
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And if you're a certain age and can remember this one:
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It was as fast as a stock ford lightning with the 260hp blown v6.
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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Juday » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:51 am

That was a good article to read. It would be quite fun to do something like that and take an eight day adventurous drive somewhere. If only work didn't get in the way. Also, it's nice to see an article with writers that aren't Raptor nut swingers. God forbid something's not perfect with the Raptor!
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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by whitey » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:15 pm

I enjoyed the video. I might have to go look at the ZR2 and take it for a test drive. Take one to 4wheelparts and put it on the RTI ramp. And I wonder if chevy took the time to tuck all the undercarriage soft parts unlike Ford.

I also followed the Raptor thread and read pretty much the whole thread. If I didn't know any better I'd say a power wagon owner is speaking up in the thread. There is no love lost from me. I really got trolled by raptor owners when they first came out. Raptor owners thought they had THE truck for off road and where posting comments on my videos. Years later I've only seen them in packs on easy trails showing off their pretty trucks. Actually I take that back. I did see one on Dicky Bell trail bypass at Uwharrie (which is rated difficult). It didn't fair too well and it wouldn't make it today on that trail.

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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by DamageWagon » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:39 pm

Unless the ZR2 package added some skid plates, I remember when the diesel first came out the oil pan looked like it was designed to be a target. That thing was so low they should have just made it thick enough to be its own skid plate. No clue how the gas engine is.

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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Reloaderguy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:43 pm

Jesus Christ the internet sucks sometimes.
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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by whitey » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:59 pm

Just looked at pics of the ZR2 set up. rear driveshaft looks short....Jeep TJ short. Not sure if its the pics? Looks like it would be a chore to lift it but it appears as though chevy did much better than Ford. When I've gotten under raptors I've been freaked out about vulnerable brake lines and numerous electrical lines ready to be destroyed. I think it will be interesting to see a ZR2 going on some of the harder trails out my way.

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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by FordyceCreekTrail » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:16 am

whitey wrote: When I've gotten under raptors I've been freaked out about vulnerable brake lines and numerous electrical lines ready to be destroyed.
Funny you say that. A Power Wagon will be my first new US made vehicle ever, and I have never owned anything but 4x4s. Some things that stuck with me from early on when I was young was no skid plates, no tow hooks....yadda yadda on US made 4x4s back in the day, but also all the brake lines, wires and parking brake cables that just dangled under neath. I could never imagine being off-road with crap like that hanging down. The Chevy Z71 package fixed a few things on that list and was pioneering at the time for US makers, but I remember popping the hood on a truck and all the engine wires were flopping around in the engine compartment as well. Ready to get melted or rubbed or what ever....As an age old Japanese truck buyer those types things are hard to accept.
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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Ramajama » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:29 am

MikeKey wrote:Raptors are one trick ponies, but thanks to marketing and flashy looks, their owners are convinced they have the most extreme badass offroad capable trucks. They don't.
YEP and the truth hurts!
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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Ramajama » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:44 am

Chromolykid wrote:Just wait for the TRX... Ram will have the off-road truck market cornered between it and the PW.

I know several Raptor owners who will trade their weed-whacker trucks in the second the TRX is available. Ford will have to put a V8 (Coyote?) back in their truck to be competitive.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Power Wagon, but the suspension isn't half of what it should be and I wish it had the 8-speed. Was about a week out from ordering KINGs when the "concept" guy at my dealer called and said he was briefed on TRX sales for next year. Fingers crossed it will be similar to the concept (besides the rack).
Yeah, Of course they will make the TRX. Ive been saying it since the "concept" was revealed. Yeah, of course RAM and RAM insiders are being coy about it. My bet (word on the street) is that the DT (5th generation 1500) will have a "sub brand" in the Rebel. The Rebel will consist of two models. One will be similar to the current Rebel and will have the new tech upgrades and the next gen air suspension. The other model will be the higher performance "TRX" Rapturd hunter. Sure it'll be nerfed down some but it'll still be awesome.

It'll be fun to see the lil Raptors meet the T-ReX...see what I did there? :lol:

+1 on everything you said. Its going to be a huge success. As for Furd, Ive already heard rumors that Furd is going to have to offer the 5.0 in the Rapturd again as the new Rapturd isn't being received as well as they thought. Too bad RAM couldnt strike now, while the Rapturd is hamstrung by that lil V6. Maybe they'll still get the TRX out in time to exploit their V6 as Furd may drag their feet on the 5.0. They are steadfastly and hardheadedly committed to EcoBust. We'll see :box: :lockedandloaded:

Interesting times for RAM.
It'll be interesting to see what RAM does with the PW in 2020. :rockon:
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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Ramajama » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:49 am

MikeKey wrote:
Sweet5ltr wrote:Raptor owners are imploding, it's hysterical reading the replies on that forum. Everything from 'incorrect tire pressure' to 'Ram rigged the testing' is being discussed.

Why is it such a controversy, the Raptor lost to two vehicles with better approach, breakover, and departure angles. Not only that, the other two vehicles had front and rear locking diffs and naturally aspirated engines. Unless the 3.5 twin-turbo engine is under load, it's not building positive manifold pressure continuously like a typical belt-driven roots/twin-screw style blower. Turbo engines make phenomenal torque as they're incredibly efficient, but only at WOT or under an extreme load! The Raptor is engineered to be the best factory production vehicle for 'Baja 1000 style' high-speed off roading. Unfortunately, nearly no realistic off-roading scenario is done this way, so it's no surprise that it lost in this type of real-world testing.

Basically what I've been saying about the Rapturd forever. :cheers: You hit the nail on the head. It is way more of a niche vehicle than anyone realizes. And it doesn't translate well to other forms of offroading nearly as well as you'd think.
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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Ramajama » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:53 am

Rapturd might be a good PreRunner truck but the big ole PW did pretty good with these high speed runs. (See video) They got some particularly good air in some jumps during this photo shoot as well.

https://youtu.be/EpgOznHDBQE
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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by MSCH2112 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:50 am

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Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by TankerZak » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:03 pm

I have a co-worker with the ZR2. I need to check it out. I don't think he did a ton of research. Like he doesn't know what IFS and the differences between that and a solid axle... it's odd.
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