Decisions
Decisions
I currently have a 2013 pw I have the chance at a good deal on a white 16 the only complaint I have about the 13' is that it is black I absolutely hate black "was the only color I could find at the time " question is what are the pros and cons 2013 vs 2016
2010pw,sold 2013 raptor "company truck" 2013 pw,sold ... 2016 pw
Re: Decisions
New suspension. It gives more flex and a better ride, but does nothing for wheel hop issue.
CAD.
6.4 is nice, but takes expensive oil.
11.5" rear end, but only 4:10 gears.
CAD.
6.4 is nice, but takes expensive oil.
11.5" rear end, but only 4:10 gears.
2007 and 2019 Power Wagons
- Bigskyguy1976
- Posts: 23
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- Model Year: 2012
Re: Decisions
Recently traded my 2012 PW for the 2016PW.
I'm not sold on the 6.4 multi-displacement motor. The PW is far too heavy for the MDS to be very useful and sure seems like a point for maintenance and computer problems down the road.
I really miss the 4.56 gears in my 2012 PW. The new suspension feels a lot safer on the highway. My leaf-sprung 2012 was a death trap on the freeway when driving over bridge expansion joints. The thing would shoot across two lanes of traffic and fish tail even with the slightest bump on a freeway. That said, it was a better offroad suspension. The new suspension has really, really bad axle wrap and hop while off road.
The position of the axle lock dial in better on the 2016. You can actually see the lights when it's locked up where-as you couldn't see them hidden behind the gear leaver on the earlier models.
Also, I'm not sure why, but my 2012 5.7L felt far more powerful than my 2016 6.4L. I only have 2300 miles on my 2016. I've been told that computer de-tunes it while in "break-in" mode. Sounds like a load of bull to me but I may be wrong.
I'm not sold on the 6.4 multi-displacement motor. The PW is far too heavy for the MDS to be very useful and sure seems like a point for maintenance and computer problems down the road.
I really miss the 4.56 gears in my 2012 PW. The new suspension feels a lot safer on the highway. My leaf-sprung 2012 was a death trap on the freeway when driving over bridge expansion joints. The thing would shoot across two lanes of traffic and fish tail even with the slightest bump on a freeway. That said, it was a better offroad suspension. The new suspension has really, really bad axle wrap and hop while off road.
The position of the axle lock dial in better on the 2016. You can actually see the lights when it's locked up where-as you couldn't see them hidden behind the gear leaver on the earlier models.
Also, I'm not sure why, but my 2012 5.7L felt far more powerful than my 2016 6.4L. I only have 2300 miles on my 2016. I've been told that computer de-tunes it while in "break-in" mode. Sounds like a load of bull to me but I may be wrong.
Curtis B.
Location (near) Butte, MT
2016 Power Wagon 6.4L Tradesman
2012 Power Wagon 5.7L SLT (sold)
2004 Land Rover Discovery (sold)
2000 Hummer H1 (sold)
Location (near) Butte, MT
2016 Power Wagon 6.4L Tradesman
2012 Power Wagon 5.7L SLT (sold)
2004 Land Rover Discovery (sold)
2000 Hummer H1 (sold)
- adeluca73
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Re: Decisions
Hop yes, Wrap no...see the "500 page" thread on this dead horse...Bigskyguy1976 wrote:Recently traded my 2012 PW for the 2016PW.
I'm not sold on the 6.4 multi-displacement motor. The PW is far too heavy for the MDS to be very useful and sure seems like a point for maintenance and computer problems down the road.
I really miss the 4.56 gears in my 2012 PW. The new suspension feels a lot safer on the highway. My leaf-sprung 2012 was a death trap on the freeway when driving over bridge expansion joints. The thing would shoot across two lanes of traffic and fish tail even with the slightest bump on a freeway. That said, it was a better offroad suspension. The new suspension has really, really bad axle wrap and hop while off road.
The position of the axle lock dial in better on the 2016. You can actually see the lights when it's locked up where-as you couldn't see them hidden behind the gear leaver on the earlier models.
Also, I'm not sure why, but my 2012 5.7L felt far more powerful than my 2016 6.4L. I only have 2300 miles on my 2016. I've been told that computer de-tunes it while in "break-in" mode. Sounds like a load of bull to me but I may be wrong.
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Re: Decisions
I think you're wrong about more flex. The leaf spring trucks have more flex.waldo wrote:New suspension. It gives more flex and a better ride, but does nothing for wheel hop issue.
CAD.
6.4 is nice, but takes expensive oil.
11.5" rear end, but only 4:10 gears.
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Re: Decisions
Something must have been wrong with your truck. I have a 2013 with leaf springs and it's solid on the highway. I've hit bridge expansion joints at 90+ and never had a problem.Bigskyguy1976 wrote:Recently traded my 2012 PW for the 2016PW.
I'm not sold on the 6.4 multi-displacement motor. The PW is far too heavy for the MDS to be very useful and sure seems like a point for maintenance and computer problems down the road.
I really miss the 4.56 gears in my 2012 PW. The new suspension feels a lot safer on the highway. My leaf-sprung 2012 was a death trap on the freeway when driving over bridge expansion joints. The thing would shoot across two lanes of traffic and fish tail even with the slightest bump on a freeway. That said, it was a better offroad suspension. The new suspension has really, really bad axle wrap and hop while off road.
The position of the axle lock dial in better on the 2016. You can actually see the lights when it's locked up where-as you couldn't see them hidden behind the gear leaver on the earlier models.
Also, I'm not sure why, but my 2012 5.7L felt far more powerful than my 2016 6.4L. I only have 2300 miles on my 2016. I've been told that computer de-tunes it while in "break-in" mode. Sounds like a load of bull to me but I may be wrong.
Re: Decisions
IDK, I've got both and 07 and a 16. Personally, I think the new one flexes better, but that's just my perception. I haven't really measured anything.TrueBlue13PW wrote:I think you're wrong about more flex. The leaf spring trucks have more flex.waldo wrote:New suspension. It gives more flex and a better ride, but does nothing for wheel hop issue.
CAD.
6.4 is nice, but takes expensive oil.
11.5" rear end, but only 4:10 gears.
2007 and 2019 Power Wagons
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Re: Decisions
Official rating by Chrysler for Gen 3 is 655 RTI meaning it cat raise it's leg 32" before it starts lifting it's paws off the ground . Leaf Gen 4 is about same.
For Gen 4's with coils it's only much more down to earth 510 - 26" up.
For Gen 4's with coils it's only much more down to earth 510 - 26" up.
Plain white 2008, 35" Duratracts, Bilstein 5160s.
Re: Decisions
So I will loose power "due to gearing " and articulation trading up to the 16 ?
2010pw,sold 2013 raptor "company truck" 2013 pw,sold ... 2016 pw
- OffroadTreks
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Re: Decisions
What? Wow. Where did you get official numbers? Do you have a source. I have some sources for your numbers, but they don't say if they're offical:PWRider wrote:Official rating by Chrysler for Gen 3 is 655 RTI meaning it cat raise it's leg 32" before it starts lifting it's paws off the ground . Leaf Gen 4 is about same.
For Gen 4's with coils it's only much more down to earth 510 - 26" up.
2014: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 27031.html
vs
2005: http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/2005/d ... page2.html
Now here is an interesting one for 2011: http://www.automotive-fleet.com/news/st ... range.aspx
I find that part interesting. I almost wonder if the 4th gen coil numbers you found and I found are with the sway bar engaged and not disengaged. As the numbers are closer to this article qoute for 2011.The Ram Power Wagon offers a 460, or 23-inch vertical height, Ramp Travel Index (RTI), which is a measurement of a vehicle's suspension articulation, with the stabilizer bar engaged. With the stabilizer bar disengaged, the RTI is 655, a 32-inch vertical height.
Of interest to me is this video from TFLTruck in which they did the same test with the sway connected and disconnected:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-laMH9ErFEI
Notice they get 65 inches up the ramp with the sway bar engaged and then 88 inches up the ramp with it disengaged. That's huge. 23 inch difference. But their test isn't a true RTI test. So, take it with a grain of salt.
It would seem unwise for Ram to go backwards in their investment in most offroad capable. And while 6 inches doesn't seem like a lot, that is a lot. I would like to see a source that specifics both engaged and disengaged numbers. So far I've only found two sources for older trucks.
And I can't find anything clarifying which number is the number they publish as offical.
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Re: Decisions
I watched TFL before. If you do math 90 * (sin 16.5) ~ 25.56 round up to 26. Just about right what is claimed.
Other figure is straight from my Owners Manual page 282.
Other figure is straight from my Owners Manual page 282.
Ramp Travel Index (RTI)
The ramp travel index is the distance, in inches, that you
can drive your vehicle with one wheel on a 20-degree
ramp without lifting any other wheel off the ground. This
distance up the ramp divided by the wheelbase of the
vehicle and multiplied by 1000 is the RTI. The Power
Wagon has an RTI of 655, which means you can articulate
one front wheel 32 inches in the air while the other three
wheels remain in contact with the ground.
High Mobility Characteristics
The Power Wagon has high off-road mobility characteristics
with an approach angle A= 35 degrees, a break-over
angle B= 25.5 degrees, a running ground clearance C=
14.5 inches, a departure angle D= 26.5 degrees, an axle to
ground clearance E= 8.4 inches front/E= 8.25 rear and
has a ramp travel index (with the smart bar in off-road
mode) of 655. Also the Power Wagon has a grade-ability
of a 60% (31 degree) slope.
Plain white 2008, 35" Duratracts, Bilstein 5160s.
Re: Decisions
So I am going to loose power due to gear ratio .and articulation with the 16' ?
2010pw,sold 2013 raptor "company truck" 2013 pw,sold ... 2016 pw
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Re: Decisions
Yeah it was a bit painful to watch it barely beating Raptor with ifs and sway bar. They don't make they like that used to anymore. 6" is very considerable. In real life though may not notice it much. Wonder what's more at fault front or rear.
Plain white 2008, 35" Duratracts, Bilstein 5160s.
- Reloaderguy
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Re: Decisions
Probably the stiff coils.
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Re: Decisions
Believe it's the front suspension. The 4G's uses a 3 link radius arm. The 3G's using a 5 link front. There was a discussion about that when the 4G's first came out.
PWOC #53
2008 POWER WAGON RC
My build thread. http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... =13&t=2826
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NRA - Benefactor, Golden Eagle.
2008 POWER WAGON RC
My build thread. http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... =13&t=2826
Moab '09, '10, '12, '14.
Rausch Creek - Summer '10, Spring-Fall '11, Spring '12, Summer '13, Summer '14, Summer '15, Summer '16, Summer '17, Summer '18, Summer '20, Summer '22,
AOAA Summer '19.
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NRA - Benefactor, Golden Eagle.
- coder
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Re: Decisions
Gears don't add power they simply put you're peak power at a lower engine rpm because the driveshaft is turning faster.Digger wrote:So I am going to loose power due to gear ratio .anvd articulation with the 16' ?
Last edited by coder on Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Vehicle: 2007 Power Wagon Quad Cab - Factory Options (Inferno Red, Premium Cloth Bench Seat, Light Group, Automatic Transmission, Leather Steering Wheel)
Suspension: Carli 3" Hemi Coils, Carli Control Arms, Carli King 2.5 Pin-Tops, Carli Stainless Steering Stabilizer, Carli Trackbar | Synergy 1" Rear Shackle
Performance: Magnaflow Muffler | Magnaflow Y-Pipe
Wheels/Tires: Yokohama X-A/T 35x12.5x17
Steering/Drivetrain/Axles: Carli Front Diff Guard | Dynatrac Ball Joints | Mopar HD Steering Gear
Miscellaneous: Line-X Bedliner | Locker Bypass Switch | Mopar Rock Rails | Odyssey Extreme 65-PC1750T | Performance Friction Brake Pads | Weathertech Digital Fit Mats | Winch Thermal Protection Bypass
Suspension: Carli 3" Hemi Coils, Carli Control Arms, Carli King 2.5 Pin-Tops, Carli Stainless Steering Stabilizer, Carli Trackbar | Synergy 1" Rear Shackle
Performance: Magnaflow Muffler | Magnaflow Y-Pipe
Wheels/Tires: Yokohama X-A/T 35x12.5x17
Steering/Drivetrain/Axles: Carli Front Diff Guard | Dynatrac Ball Joints | Mopar HD Steering Gear
Miscellaneous: Line-X Bedliner | Locker Bypass Switch | Mopar Rock Rails | Odyssey Extreme 65-PC1750T | Performance Friction Brake Pads | Weathertech Digital Fit Mats | Winch Thermal Protection Bypass
Re: Decisions
I understand the gear ratio does not reduce the power ... I was asking if the higher gear ratio and 6.4 the 16 would make a difference in torque put to the rear wheels as opposed to the 5.7 with 4.56
2010pw,sold 2013 raptor "company truck" 2013 pw,sold ... 2016 pw
- 04Ram2500Hemi
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Re: Decisions
Honestly I think 2013 is the best 4th Gen Power Wagon made so far. You still have the 4.56 gears, you have the newer interior, and you have the older suspension. I'm honestly not sold on the 6.4L with the 4.10 gears or the newer suspension. From what I've read, the 4.5 Gen Power Wagon doesn't articulate as well, it's actually slower in a 0-60 test, and it takes longer to stop. I'm not saying the 4.5 Gen Power Wagon's are a bad truck (if my 2012 got totaled today I'd have a 2016 Power Wagon in my garage), I'm just not convinced that they are better than what you currently have.Digger wrote:I currently have a 2013 pw I have the chance at a good deal on a white 16 the only complaint I have about the 13' is that it is black I absolutely hate black "was the only color I could find at the time " question is what are the pros and cons 2013 vs 2016
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2012 Ram Power Wagon: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=107
Truxedo Deuce Bed Cover with Bed Lights, Black Line-X Rocker Panel, Custom Built Rock Rails Sprayed with Line-X, Front & Rear Bumper and Grill sprayed with Line-X, Husky Mud Flaps, Husky Floor Mats, Four VisionX Xmitter Low Pro Prime XP LED Light Bars Behind the Grill, LED Lights Mounted in the Rear Bumper, Heated Seats, Interior LED Lighting, NAV-TV, Camera Mounted in Front Grill, Custom Headache Rack, AEV Raised Air Intake, AEV Salta HD Wheels in Onyx, 285/75/17 Cooper Discoverer AT3
- MOPARManiac
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Re: Decisions
What year did they start putting the ESP in Powerwagons? Was it 2012 or 2013?
2010 Power Wagon in Bright Silver Metalic, Sun Roof, Power sliding rear window, Nav, Luverne Grill Guard. Cooper S/T Maxx tires, DeeZee toolbox w/ Hi Lift Jack, two Jerry Cans/Mounts, Armacoating bedliner, Carli front diff guard. White Knuckle Off Road Sliders.
Re: Decisions
I'll keep rocking the 2010 with no nannies haha
2010 with 37" hooves, controlled by numerous Thuren parts and Thuren Custom King 2.5's (Moved to a new home)
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2333
I only do what the majority of the 4 voices in my head tell me to. In most cases, I ignore two of them because one doesn't speak English, and I suspect the other is talking to someone else.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2333
I only do what the majority of the 4 voices in my head tell me to. In most cases, I ignore two of them because one doesn't speak English, and I suspect the other is talking to someone else.
Re: Decisions
The newer ones have much better potential for articulation though.
2010 with 37" hooves, controlled by numerous Thuren parts and Thuren Custom King 2.5's (Moved to a new home)
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2333
I only do what the majority of the 4 voices in my head tell me to. In most cases, I ignore two of them because one doesn't speak English, and I suspect the other is talking to someone else.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2333
I only do what the majority of the 4 voices in my head tell me to. In most cases, I ignore two of them because one doesn't speak English, and I suspect the other is talking to someone else.
- OffroadTreks
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Re: Decisions
I posted this observation elsewhere, but I suspect the reason why the 5.7 feels like it has more power while the 6.4 feels sluggish, despite having more power on paper is tuning. WTF is with that 3000rpm rev limiter in park? My 1500 felt like a high rever, and sporty. The 6.4 feels like I have to insist on it giving me the damn power. It's there, when you get it, is it there. But the throttle response and some other aspects, it's almost like you mash the peddle and the truck wants to ask, "Are you really sure?"
Turn off the ESP, put it in tow haul and drive around in 3rd. That's how the truck should feel. But it doesn't. I realize it's a heavy HD truck. And I think Ram focused on reliability under working conditions. 1500's tend to be used even more as daily drivers, and it makes sense that the 5.7 is tuned differently if you think about the line up.
I know the 6.4 pulls my Airstream up a hill with more ease than the 5.7 1500 did. But there is something I can't place my finger on. And I think it's related to how this engine has been tuned.
You know, there was this rule at GM where nothing could be faster than the Corvette, and some things actually had better engines. And then got detuned. And I almost wonder if there is a rule about the 6.4L can't be better than the diesel? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Just guessing out my butt. But, maybe.
Turn off the ESP, put it in tow haul and drive around in 3rd. That's how the truck should feel. But it doesn't. I realize it's a heavy HD truck. And I think Ram focused on reliability under working conditions. 1500's tend to be used even more as daily drivers, and it makes sense that the 5.7 is tuned differently if you think about the line up.
I know the 6.4 pulls my Airstream up a hill with more ease than the 5.7 1500 did. But there is something I can't place my finger on. And I think it's related to how this engine has been tuned.
You know, there was this rule at GM where nothing could be faster than the Corvette, and some things actually had better engines. And then got detuned. And I almost wonder if there is a rule about the 6.4L can't be better than the diesel? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Just guessing out my butt. But, maybe.
2015 Power Wagon Laramie - "ROCKLANDER"
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Re: Decisions
I think it's more in the trans gearing and the shitty way the PCM handles the shifts and the throttle input. I think when they finally come up with a tuner for the new ones it will cure most of that.
2007 and 2019 Power Wagons
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Re: Decisions
There is a program in the computer called Torque Management. It controls the torque at a given parameter. Seems like it's controlling more in the 6.4. With some tuners, you can change the settings.
Last edited by RustyPW on Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PWOC #53
2008 POWER WAGON RC
My build thread. http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... =13&t=2826
Moab '09, '10, '12, '14.
Rausch Creek - Summer '10, Spring-Fall '11, Spring '12, Summer '13, Summer '14, Summer '15, Summer '16, Summer '17, Summer '18, Summer '20, Summer '22,
AOAA Summer '19.
Russ
NRA - Benefactor, Golden Eagle.
2008 POWER WAGON RC
My build thread. http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... =13&t=2826
Moab '09, '10, '12, '14.
Rausch Creek - Summer '10, Spring-Fall '11, Spring '12, Summer '13, Summer '14, Summer '15, Summer '16, Summer '17, Summer '18, Summer '20, Summer '22,
AOAA Summer '19.
Russ
NRA - Benefactor, Golden Eagle.
Re: Decisions
All my previous Rams were 1500's, with the 5.7L Hemi; including the 2014 I traded for my 2016 PW.
I'm very happy with the acceleration, power, and shifting of the 6.4L Hemi.
I'm very happy with the acceleration, power, and shifting of the 6.4L Hemi.
2016 Power Wagon SLT