GVWR and Payload

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Zlaayer
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GVWR and Payload

Post by Zlaayer » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:38 pm

I’m curious if anyone here can answer this question. If I change my suspension components or add air bags or change tires can it increase my GVWR or payload? I’ve seen some of you make comments about the PW having a low payload capacity because of the suspension. But other 2500 variants seem to have much higher payloads. Suspension gurus please chime in.

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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by Reloaderguy » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:50 pm

Payload is arbitrary.
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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by TankerZak » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:14 pm

You can never change the sticker. But the only thing lowering the rating on these trucks is the suspension. But when you replace the suspension with upgrades it'll get a little worse and a little better in different aspects. At the end of the day I personally use the normal 2500 gas payload and towing numbers and airbags to offset the suspension.

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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by Zlaayer » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:45 am

TankerZak wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:14 pm
You can never change the sticker. But the only thing lowering the rating on these trucks is the suspension. But when you replace the suspension with upgrades it'll get a little worse and a little better in different aspects. At the end of the day I personally use the normal 2500 gas payload and towing numbers and airbags to offset the suspension.

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What is the payload in the normal 2500 gasser and what do you mean that replacing the suspension will make it both better and worse in certain ways? What ways?

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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by olyelr » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:01 pm

For whats its worth, the payload in my ‘16 pw is 260 pounds less than my ‘17 ram 1500 (1135 VS 1395). I think my ‘11 dodge minivan was more than my pw too. But ask me what I would rather tow with 🙄
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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by olyelr » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:04 pm

Zlaayer wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:45 am
TankerZak wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:14 pm
You can never change the sticker. But the only thing lowering the rating on these trucks is the suspension. But when you replace the suspension with upgrades it'll get a little worse and a little better in different aspects. At the end of the day I personally use the normal 2500 gas payload and towing numbers and airbags to offset the suspension.

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What is the payload in the normal 2500 gasser and what do you mean that replacing the suspension will make it both better and worse in certain ways? What ways?
Depending on the configuration, somewhere around a few thousand pounds more than a pw.

The normal 2500 suspension will be way better for towing heavy. And obviously, the pw suspension will be way better for offroad use. Its also much more pleasant for empty on road ride quality too.
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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by TankerZak » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:21 pm

I was trying not to be too specific. If your on king shocks, with and upgrade trackbar, and springs you'll be way better off than stock PW for towing. My truck is 8500 with just me in it and my tounge weight is around 1500 lbs. I'm probably at 10k on the truck and it handles it no problem with airbags. But i can't say how it'd handle on lesser shocks, etc. I will say that better tires, better rear track bar, and airbags solves a crapton of the low payload rating. I think the regular 2500 payload is nearly 3k. I'm sure a PW with airbags would handle that just as well. Brakes, transmission, engine, are all the same. Axles are beefier. Only things different are wheels, tires, shocks, springs. And most of that is stuff people replace anyway.

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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by Bill2014 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:03 pm

TankerZak wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:14 pm
You can never change the sticker. But the only thing lowering the rating on these trucks is the suspension. But when you replace the suspension with upgrades it'll get a little worse and a little better in different aspects. At the end of the day I personally use the normal 2500 gas payload and towing numbers and airbags to offset the suspension.

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You can never change the stickers?

Where did you get that information?

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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by TankerZak » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:07 pm

Fine... i didn't want to cover it. But in rare instances a shop can change your sticker if they rebuild a portion of the vehicle and are authorized to do so. But it's pretty rare. I've seen one truck with a modification sticker. He's asking basic questions so I was trying to stay out of the edge cases that can cause confusion.

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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by Low_Sky » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:48 am

TankerZak wrote:He's asking basic questions so I was trying to stay out of the edge cases that can cause confusion.

How dare you?! This is the internet!!! Anarchy! Yeah you can change your stickers, my cousin did it on his Kia.


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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by BoldAdventure » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:36 am

Armchair lawyers will always argue over the stickers. Look, DOT is not going to bother non-commercial vehicles in the United States. I have heard that it's a slightly different story in Cunkastan. And on some toll roads up in NJ & NY. But for the most part, nope. We have two people who finally cleared up the whole "YOU MIGHT BE LIABLE" BS on Airforums who are both crash investigators, their statements came down to, in all their years, no one has ever, ever, ever bothered to determine if a vehicle was overweight in non-commercial investigations. And even in commercial investigations with insurance, they said they don't do it a lot.

So arguing about the stupid sticker is a MOOT point and really a waste of bytes on the internet.

Change you change the payload? The answer is technical yes.

Consider the differences in trim. You take two 2500's a Laramie and a Tradesmen. They're the same truck and chassis, but why is the payload less in the Laramie. Simple, all the extra shit weighing it down.

If you take out all the leather seats and stuff, what happens? Payload increases. Follow the logic here.

Same with suspension components. Different coils, different axles, extra.

The thing is, when you get stickers put on the truck, it's based on a set of variables with built-in safety. So if you change the variables, technically the numbers would change. But it's also a combination of factors.

Like if I had a 1500 and swapped in a 1-ton rear axle, that wouldn't mean the coils out back could now support the same amount of weight. Right.

Hope this makes sense.

-----

As to why other 2500's have higher payloads, it's because they usually have 10000 GVWR, where the Power Wagon has like 8590 GVWR (or something, I forget, not going outside to look) - this is the "derating" we all talk about. If you think about it, the PW has the same axles, same frame, most of the same parts as a 2500 6.4l Hemi non-Power Wagon. What's different then? The coils, the extra lift, and the 33-inch super soft D range tires.

So my truck was like 7500lbs with two passengers stock, so 8590 - 7500 = 1090 lbs payload

vs a standard 2500 with 10k GVWR

10000 - 7500 = 2500lbs payload.

The standard 2500 comes with load range E tires. So imagine if you have 35's and E rated AT tires with bags, you can easily handle the same amount of weight. Your truck is not going to break in half like an aluminum Ford.

So, really, all the worry is misplaced.

Now, don't go towing a 30k backhoe on an gooseneck, but at the same time, don't fret that you won't be able to load up all your shit either.
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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by TankerZak » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:43 pm

Exactly!! The shit that matters is the same. The shit that derated the GVWR is usually replaced and/or fixed by bags. All you really gotta do is get rid of the squat and make sure the tires match the axles. Don't exceed GCWR or tow rating for long hauls, (short distance on a farm would be fine). For safety i use the ratings of the gas 2500 6.4 because I figure thats what the frame, brakes, drivetrain, etc is rated at. When towing I sit right around 17k.

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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by RustyPW » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:56 pm

Throw my 2 cents in here. Take it for what it's worth. 2 years ago. Pa. State Police set up a portable weight station at Advanced Disposal Landfill. They was busting people with over weight loads on their pick-ups. Also got them for loads that wasn't covered with a tarp. :cash: :cash: :cash:

I can vouch on paying a toll based on your weight sticker. Crossing into NJ. Going over a bridge. You have to pay a toll. Pull up to the toll booth. The guy asked what my truck weight. Told 8,800 lbs. He said that will be $40.00 please. :jawdrop: $20.00 per axle.
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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by BoldAdventure » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:59 pm

That upper corner of the country seems to a tad ticket happy. I've heard those stories before, thus my warning. But for most of us, not a real concern. Interestingly enough, FL just puts the GVWR on your registration, mine says 10k. The 1500 I had I recall was listed at 7500 despite that not being the GVWR on the truck. I think they are picking arbitrary numbers for taxes in FL.
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Re: GVWR and Payload

Post by Bill2014 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:56 am

BoldAdventure wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:59 pm
That upper corner of the country seems to a tad ticket happy. I've heard those stories before, thus my warning. But for most of us, not a real concern. Interestingly enough, FL just puts the GVWR on your registration, mine says 10k. The 1500 I had I recall was listed at 7500 despite that not being the GVWR on the truck. I think they are picking arbitrary numbers for taxes in FL.
I had my dealer register my Power Wagon for 10,000 pounds right out of the gate. The registered weight is all that matters in NY. :idea:
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