How many of you are overweight?

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05PWrockcrawler
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by 05PWrockcrawler » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:00 pm

Jmarsh that's a load! Nice. Very limited towing duty for me now On 40" tires until I re gear it.


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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by Will » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:18 pm

I just go by what tires are rated at and add 10% haha
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by cruz » Sat May 02, 2015 12:39 pm

Limamikemike wrote:When your powerwagon is loaded.

I've debated putting a sled deck on my truck to carry a dirtbike and an Atv while towing our travel trailer. The total weight of this is about 1025lbs plus 800lbs tongue weight plus driver, wife and dog 425lbs. Then add fuel and snivel gear etc

The payload on my PW Laramie is 1330lbs (yes you read that right). Bags or timbrens will be required no doubt.

Some will ask why I didn't buy a regular 2500 or 3500. I wanted the truck I've lusted after since 05 and I figure that PW still has a full float axle and regular HD running gear so it should be able to handle the weight with some help.

A new F150 has better payload# than a PW but I think it's better to have an understressed 2500 chassis rather than a overstressed 1/2 ton chassis.

So guys with slide in campers, guys that tow or load heavily and work their trucks please chime in with your thoughts.

The weight police will probably chime in and say GVWR is the law, BC is the only Canadian province I know of that enforces personal vehicles weight ratings, I should still fly under the radar with the regular 2500 badges, unless the Mountie knows what a PW is.

Anyway let's hear your thoughts...
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by Limamikemike » Sat May 02, 2015 7:32 pm

Nice set up, looks like you have an rv for every occasion. :D
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by Takingatrip1 » Sat May 02, 2015 9:56 pm

Question for you guys that really know towing

Truck = 6100lbs
Camper = 1500lbs
People and gear= 600lbs

Then add flat towing a 3000 lb 4x4.

How does that add up ? Payload vs towing and the gross vehicle weight and all the other.
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by 2wagons1driveway » Sun May 03, 2015 11:42 am

As for as I understand gross vehicle doesn't have anything to do with your tow behind! Just what's in/on the truck...


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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by R0NAN » Sun May 03, 2015 12:21 pm

A trailer should have rated dry tongue weight ( usually about 10% of the weight of the trailer itself) . So if your trailer is 5000 lbs, your tongue weight will be in the neibourhood of 500 lbs. I have a front deck toy hauler so when I put my ATVs on, that percentage goes up significantly. Each trailer is unique. Tongue weight must be added into your payload weight. Every trailer is different so it is best to scale your truck weight with no trailer (with nothing in it , one person only)on each axle and record it. Then scale your loaded truck and trailer on each axle and record it.
The difference between the two recorded weights on the truck ( axle weights combined) is your gross payload weight.
The other thing to consider is the weight on each axle( rear in particular). Compare it to the axle weight value in your door jam. Individual axle weights should not be exceeded either( to be perfectly legal).
Lastly, check the rated payload of your tires ( fully inflated) and make sure the weight on the axle does not exceed the payload capabilities of your tires.
As far as towing, our trucks are very capable due to the fact that it is a heavy duty truck with lots of mass, decent power and good gearing. It biggest weakness is likely its brakes. I you tow heavy often, it would be a good idea to invest in better brake components.
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by 2wagons1driveway » Sun May 03, 2015 12:44 pm

Yes the brakes do suck for being large they have minimal stopping power... When compared to others that is.


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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by R0NAN » Sun May 03, 2015 12:46 pm

The weight adds up quickly when you add batteries, fluids , propane, recovery gear and tools... So it is best to scale it because it is almost always more than what you would estimate.

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)
Is the maximum recommended weight for a vehicle, including: the weight of the vehicle itself, fuel and other fluids, passengers, and all cargo and trailer tongue weights.

Payload
Is the combined, maximum allowable weight of cargo, and passengers that the truck is designed to carry. To calculate the payload of a vehicle, take the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and subtract the Curb Weight.

Base Curb Weight
Is the weight of the vehicle including a full tank of fuel and all standard equipment. It does not include passengers, cargo or any optional equipment.
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by R0NAN » Sun May 03, 2015 1:00 pm

2wagons1driveway wrote:Yes the brakes do suck for being large they have minimal stopping power... When compared to others that is.


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Yup! I was towing 9500 lbs with a full truck last summer and had to dive on the brakes. I wasn't satisfied with the results so brake upgrades are on my list. Descending steep mountain roads, I keep my speed down and use my gears so as to not overheat them. Coming down from a lake ( bush road) in BC last summer, it was in 1st gear a good part of the way down.
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by Takingatrip1 » Sun May 03, 2015 3:51 pm

Because the towed 4x4 is supporting its own weight there's not much concerns about weight on the hitch or payload , just overall tow weight for braking and pulling ?
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by R0NAN » Sun May 03, 2015 9:45 pm

Takingatrip1 wrote:Question for you guys that really know towing

Truck = 6100lbs
Camper = 1500lbs
People and gear= 600lbs

Then add flat towing a 3000 lb 4x4.

How does that add up ? Payload vs towing and the gross vehicle weight and all the other.
Are you towing a jeep or rock crawler behind you? If it's not on a trailer then there is no payload reduction. If your estimates are correct then your 2100 lb payload may be slightly over what your gvrw limit is (depending on your truck). My 13' Laramie is just over 1900 lbs if I remember correctly. A few hundred pounds over is no biggie but if the 4x4 isn't on a trailer, then that means the truck is doing all the braking( no trailer brakes). 5100 lbs added to your power wagons braking abilities is a bit much IMO. I would invest in some brake upgrades when you can.
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by nts007 » Mon May 04, 2015 10:10 am

Maximum gvrw should include the weight of a trailer and or anything pulled. Our trucks are designed to be able to stop that maximum weight without external assist(trailer brakes) according to dot requirements. Not gonna say it's a fun feeling but having been there, possibily over loaded, the brakes can produce some serious stopping power in an emergency. But it will really take a lot outta them. We ran a 3500 with a 34' cattle liner loaded up. When we loaded we didn't quite do the math and ended up with 19,300lbs trailer weight alone. I believe that the gvrw is only 24,000lbs. With a max trailer weight of 15-16,000. Long story short after 3 hrs cruising on the highway we were coming to our destination and in an 80 zone a funny little car decided to pull out in front of us. Which is when we discovered the trailer brakes wernt working. Little bit of cheek clenching but she stopped. Good thing rotors and pads were changes earlier that year.
Im not saying go ahead overload. Im just saying the braking system is very strong. But it's best not to rely on it. Trailer brakes are your friend. Ronan I know some of those bc roads and they will give your brakes a hell of a work out. Likely they were heat soaked. Let me know what you upgrade too. Im looking at doing ebc pads on fresh stock rotors
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by Bill2014 » Mon May 04, 2015 11:51 am

I don't seem to have any issue with my Power Wagon brakes when fully loaded. If there are issues that others are having, it is likely due to their trailer brake setup or adjustment. You really need to take the time to find the correct gain settings for any electric brake trailers you are using when they are empty and when they are full. The trailer brakes should provide the braking force for all the trailer weight. I routinely haul 15,000 pounds of trailer weight with the power wagon without any issues - and I've had cars cut me off and people jump out in front of me going through towns. :D

Also, make sure you have 10% or more tongue weight or you will likely experience the trailer swaying back and forth as your speed increases. Swaying can be a serious issue - stop and shift weight forward and it will go away...
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by R0NAN » Mon May 04, 2015 1:38 pm

The trailer will have its own GVRW that must be adhered to. It should have a metal tag listing it's capacities on the trailer somewhere. It is separate from the trucks GVRW. The only trailer weight that is relevant to the trucks GVRW is the tongue weight on the hitch. GVRW is the max allowable weight allowed on a particular axle and tire setup for either a truck or trailer. I think my trailer brakes are either too weak or they need to be setup better. Trailer is brand new and I have the gain set close to + 10 in my truck , which doesn't seem right. When I bought the truck, I spent over 3 hrs trying to find a way to hook up and use my Tekonsha P3 brake controller.with cutting into wires . Ram seemed to not provide a hookup option so I sold it and now use the one in the truck. At first I thought it was shit but now I'm starting to think that it's my trailer brakes that either too weak or need to be setup better. I believe they are drum brakes. I'll have to look into adjustments for them. BC roads are brutal on brakes.
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by Bill2014 » Mon May 04, 2015 3:26 pm

Expect to use a higher gain on the ram electric brake controller. The trailer dealer indicated that the Ram gains need to be set higher than Ford or Chevy - no explanation why. Mine is always set with a gain of 6 or higher.
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by nts007 » Mon May 04, 2015 5:38 pm

R0NAN wrote:The trailer will have its own GVRW that must be adhered to. It should have a metal tag listing it's capacities on the trailer somewhere. It is separate from the trucks GVRW. The only trailer weight that is relevant to the trucks GVRW is the tongue weight on the hitch. GVRW is the max allowable weight allowed on a particular axle and tire setup for either a truck or trailer. I think my trailer brakes are either too weak or they need to be setup better. Trailer is brand new and I have the gain set close to + 10 in my truck , which doesn't seem right. When I bought the truck, I spent over 3 hrs trying to find a way to hook up and use my Tekonsha P3 brake controller.with cutting into wires . Ram seemed to not provide a hookup option so I sold it and now use the one in the truck. At first I thought it was shit but now I'm starting to think that it's my trailer brakes that either too weak or need to be setup better. I believe they are drum brakes. I'll have to look into adjustments for them. BC roads are brutal on brakes.
Not sure if I'm arguing or not. The entire gvrw on the truck includes the weight of any trailer. That's total weight. If the trailer has a higher haul capacity than the gvrw of the truck you cannot exceed the total gvrw of the truck. Also the 'just because you can, doesn't mean you should' comes to mind. If the max gvrw of the trailer exceeds the gvrw of the truck that's great. But you shouldnt load 23k lbs onto a tri dual axle 6k lb trailer and pull it with a truck rated for 16k gvrw just because the trailer can hold it. Not saying it doesn't happen. But don't get caught
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by stubiePW » Mon May 04, 2015 7:35 pm

Bill2014 wrote:Expect to use a higher gain on the ram electric brake controller. The trailer dealer indicated that the Ram gains need to be set higher than Ford or Chevy - no explanation why. Mine is always set with a gain of 6 or higher.
Are you using light or heavy brake? I typically use the heavy electric brake controller and it is similar to others I've used

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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by R0NAN » Mon May 04, 2015 8:32 pm

Hey nts007 ( Neil)! This isn't arguing. I'd prefer to call it a discussion. The cool thing about this forum is that we can all learn from others experience and knowledge. The other day I learned new info about shocks relating to tire wear thanks to you. I certainly don't know everything and at 48 years old, I've had more than a few occasions where I was cock sure about myself only to be proven wrong so I always keep an open mind. In this case, I'm very confident about what is being discussed. I drive commercial vehicles for a living so it's part of my job to know this stuff.
For a 7000 lb truck to have a 16000 lb GVRW, that would mean that the truck could legally carry 9000 lbs of payload in its box. That doesn't exist in even the most capable 1 ton dully pickups. The best one ton Dodge dually today has a 7000 lb payload. The weight that a truck can tow is called its " towing capacity". It can tow this because the trailer has its own GVRW which supports its own weight on its own axles ( excluding tongue weight). GVRW is the weight of the truck ( with fuel) + its maximum payload capacity. My trailer has a dry weight of 6200 lbs and a GVRW of 10746 lbs. that means that Imy trailer can carry a payload of 4546 pounds of quads, fuel, water ect, ect... This payload capacity of which I speak of is determined by factors such as springs, axle ratings, tire payload ratings.....
I've copied and pasted a page with the 2014 power wagons GVRW, payload and towing ratings. In short, these are the specs:

2014 power wagon

GVRW = 8510 lbs
Payload= 1430 lbs
Towing capacity = 10 750lbs
The weight of the truck isn't listed here but it would be the GVRW minus the payload = 7080 lbs.


Our GVRW s are noticeably more than the 2014s because of the leaf springs. For example, my payload( I just checked) is 1697 lbs. The weight of my truck(with fuel) + 1697 lbs is my GVRW. Your truck has a higher payload (2000 lbs or more) so your GVRW is even more than mine. I hope this helps.
The last thing I want to do is aggravate you because I'm on your list to get those awesome sliders that you have in the works. Lol. http://www.edmunds.com/ram/2500/2014/road-test.html
Last edited by R0NAN on Mon May 04, 2015 10:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by Bill2014 » Mon May 04, 2015 9:25 pm

stubiePW wrote:
Bill2014 wrote:Expect to use a higher gain on the ram electric brake controller. The trailer dealer indicated that the Ram gains need to be set higher than Ford or Chevy - no explanation why. Mine is always set with a gain of 6 or higher.
Are you using light or heavy brake? I typically use the heavy electric brake controller and it is similar to others I've used
Using "Heavy Electric" But that is a good point for people to check and set the correct brake type.

When we plugged in the trailer, it defaulted to light electric and we had to change it. Ram recommends "Light Electric" for electric brake trailers up to 10,000 pounds and "Heavy Electric" for trailers over 10,000 pounds. I had the option to get "Electric over Hydraulic" brakes if I ordered a trailer (more $$$) - but I didn't want to wait for one to be built at the factory.

Here is the brake setup procedure from the manual - some on this thread may find it useful...

Adjusting GAIN:

NOTE: This should only be performed in a traffic free environment at speeds of approximately 20–25 mph (30–40 km/h).

1. Make sure the trailer brakes are in good working condition, functioning normally and properly adjusted. See your trailer dealer if necessary.

2. Hook up the trailer and make the electrical connections according to the trailer manufacturer’s instructions.

3. When a trailer with electric/EOH brakes is plugged in, the trailer connected message should appear in the EVIC (if the connection is not recognized by the ITBM, braking functions will not be available), the GAIN setting will illuminate and the correct type of trailer must be selected from the EVIC options.

4. Press the UP or DOWN button on the steering wheel until “TRAILER TOW” appears on the screen.

5. Press the RIGHT arrow on the steering wheel to enter “TRAILER TOW”.

6. Press the UP or DOWN buttons until Trailer Brake Type appears on the screen.

7. Press the RIGHT arrow and then press the UP or DOWN buttons until the proper Trailer Brake Type appears on the screen.

8. In a traffic-free environment, tow the trailer on a dry, level surface at a speed of 20–25 mph (30–40 km/h) and squeeze the manual brake control lever completely.

9. If the trailer wheels lockup (indicated by squealing tires), reduce the GAIN setting; if the trailer wheels turn freely, increase the GAIN setting.

Repeat steps 8 and 9 until the GAIN setting is at a point just below trailer wheel lockup. If towing a heavier trailer, trailer wheel lockup may not be attainable even with the maximum GAIN setting of 10.
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by nts007 » Mon May 04, 2015 10:06 pm

R0NAN wrote:Hey nts007 ( Neil)! This isn't arguing. I'd prefer to call it a discussion. The cool thing about this forum is that we can all learn from others experience and knowledge. The other day I learned new info about shocks relating to tire wear thanks to you. I certainly don't know everything and at 48 years old, I've had more than a few occasions where I was cock sure about myself only to be proven wrong so I always keep an open mind. In this case, I'm very confident about what is being discussed. I drive commercial vehicles for a living so it's part of my job to know this stuff.
For a 7000 lb truck to have a 16000 lb GVRW, that would mean that the truck could legally carry 9000 lbs of payload in its box. That doesn't exist in even the most capable 1 ton dully pickups. The weight that a truck can tow is called its " towing capacity". It can tow this because the trailer has its own GVRW which supports its own weight on its own axles ( excluding tongue weight). GVRW is the weight of the truck ( with fuel) + its maximum payload capacity. This payload capacity of which I speak of is determined by factors such as springs, axle ratings, tire payload ratings.....
I've copied and pasted a page with the 2014 power wagons GVRW, payload and towing ratings. In short, these are the specs:

2014 power wagon
I e

GVRW = 8510 lbs
Payload= 1430 lbs
Towing capacity = 10 750lbs
The weight of the truck isn't listed here but it would be the GVRW minus the payload = 7080 lbs.


Our GVRW s are noticeably more than the 2014s because of the leaf springs. For example, my payload( I just checked) is 1697 lbs. The weight of my truck(with fuel) + 1697 lbs is my GVRW. Your truck has a higher payload (2000 lbs or more) so your GVRW is even more than mine. I hope this helps.
The last thing I want to do is aggravate you because I'm on your list to get those awesome sliders that you have in the works. Lol. http://www.edmunds.com/ram/2500/2014/road-test.html
I
I enjoy the banter. I just don't want to step on toes
I completely agree about the vehicle specific gvrw/specific weight. But there is a change with trailers. The reason is a trucks insurable gvrw. Which includes the maximum weight of the truck as well as max towing capacity. So when I think of gvrw its the whole package not just payload or truck alone. And I hate to say we have hauled payload way way over max. So we really are agreeing. :rockon:
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by R0NAN » Mon May 04, 2015 10:47 pm

That's good!

Here is a list of things that you can't legally do:

1. Exceed the trucks GVRW ( gross vehicle rated weight).
2. Exceed either of the trucks axles GAWR ( gross axle weight rating)
3. Exceed to towing capacity of a tow vehicles rating( based on many different factors)
4. Exceed the trailers total GVRW.
5. Exceed either of the trailers GAWR
6. Exceed the payload of the tires on either the truck or trailer. ( actual weight on axle divided by 2 tires per axle)

Bill and Stubie, if I read you correct, you are saying that there is a light and heavy brake controller option!? That would explain why I'm not happy with the in truck brake controller. I didn't know I had options. I'll check it in the morning ! Thanks :idea:
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by Limamikemike » Mon May 04, 2015 11:04 pm

What's the GVWR of a 3rd gen PW?
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by khicks » Tue May 05, 2015 11:17 am

Last weekend we went out camping and stopped at the truck scale. I had a kids quad my dirt bike and other gear in the box and my loaded 28 foot trailer hooked on. My front axle had 2000kg back axle 2430kg. Trailer axles 3350kg and tongue weight of 600kg
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Re: How many of you are overweight?

Post by Bill2014 » Tue May 05, 2015 12:58 pm

khicks wrote:Last weekend we went out camping and stopped at the truck scale. I had a kids quad my dirt bike and other gear in the box and my loaded 28 foot trailer hooked on. My front axle had 2000kg back axle 2430kg. Trailer axles 3350kg and tongue weight of 600kg
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You did a nice job setting up your equipment - it looks natural and doesn't look overloaded.
2014 Power Wagon Laramie
Titan V5 2.5" Receiver Pintle Hook
Warn wireless winch controller
.188" DOM White Knuckle Rock Sliders
Locker Bypass

Moab 2006

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