Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:21 pm

TankerZak wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:20 am
olyelr wrote:Yea I took the spacer out per Tankerzak’s recommendation and everything still works great. And I gained back the inch of compression, which was a noticeable loss.

Abnormal wear? Pffffff, guess I would have to look them over because I never really have. I will say, the trip up to the UP and back last week, when I got home and went to let the air out of the bags, the drivers side was already empty. So i may have a slow leak at a fitting.
I'd bet money it's your fitting. Toss some water on the fitting area and look for bubbles. Same thing happened to me. They shouldn't loose air except for ambient temp adjustment which can be pretty significant because of small volume size.

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Forgot to add in where the leak was. It was the valve stem core. Tightened it up a bit and all is good now.
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by Tejas » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:37 pm

olyelr wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:19 pm
Tejas wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:20 am
I am looking to add a Four Wheel Camper Hawk to the bed of my truck for an upcoming trip. It weighs right at 1000lbs. Has anyone run that kind of payload with the factory rear suspension setup and if so how badly did it sag? I am wondering if I should bother with the Airlift bag setup for a payload capacity well within the factory limits or will that kind of weight compress the rear substantially? I know the benefits of airbags for towing, but would it beneficial for that kind of payload as well?

Also, where have you all found to have the best price to buy the Airlift bags and Daystar cradles?
I would definitely consider bags with that setup. Not only is that a good amount of weight, but its all up high. I would guess it would end up feeling very rocky side to side without bags.

Theres a reason there is a sticker on the glove box of the truck when you buy it that states to not put a camper in the bed of a power wagon.
I have never even sat in the passenger seat of the truck lol. I am pretty sure that sticker was already removed when we took delivery of the truck but who knows. I'll install the bags and see how it goes. Thanks for the reply!

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:36 pm

Tejas wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:37 pm

I have never even sat in the passenger seat of the truck lol. I am pretty sure that sticker was already removed when we took delivery of the truck but who knows. I'll install the bags and see how it goes. Thanks for the reply!
Well, to correct myself it may not have been an actual sticker. Cant really remember for sure. It may have been a piece of paper that was somewhat stuck to the inside of the glove box....

Maybe give it a try without bags and see. I bet it will by very rocky and unstable feeling, though.
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:40 pm

Just went out and looked in the glovebox and found it. Notice the verbiage in the rectangle above the truck...
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by Tejas » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:33 pm

Interesting, I don't recall seeing that paper. I know your traditional slide-in usually has the overhang which leads to more weight to the rear and outboard of the bed and changes the COG of the camper itself. The FWC lacks that area and it's retained within the bed entirely. Being that it is a pop-top it has very little weight above the roof line of the cab as well. I am more concerned with the rear squatting due to the load than I am with how it performs in corners and at speed. Those things matter as well, but I am simply curious as to whether or not 1000lbs will make the truck squat.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:37 pm

As long as your truck isnt leveled, it should be close. Probably a little low out back.
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by Tejas » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:51 am

olyelr wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:37 pm
As long as your truck isnt leveled, it should be close. Probably a little low out back.
It's closer to level than stock, I have Thuren 1.5" coils up front but there is still a slight rake, maybe 3/4" higher in the rear.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:49 am

Tejas wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:51 am
olyelr wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:37 pm
As long as your truck isnt leveled, it should be close. Probably a little low out back.
It's closer to level than stock, I have Thuren 1.5" coils up front but there is still a slight rake, maybe 3/4" higher in the rear.
Yea, it will definitely be sagging ass then.
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:59 am

Your going to want airbags for sure. Your also going to want to add 1 inch Traxada spacers in the rear to get some of your rake back. How often will the camper be on the truck? If it is of any duration i'd also think about onboard air for the bags.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by Tejas » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:44 am

TankerZak wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:59 am
Your going to want airbags for sure. Your also going to want to add 1 inch Traxada spacers in the rear to get some of your rake back. How often will the camper be on the truck? If it is of any duration i'd also think about onboard air for the bags.

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It will only be on the truck when we go on trips, sometimes that might be every weekend and others that may only be once in every 2-3 months, it really just depends on our schedule, weather, events, etc.

My other idea was to mount the FWC in our M1101 trailer and pull it around. That would be only 2500lbs in total with the trailer and it would eliminate the need for bags on the truck and the temporary removal of my Snugtop every time I wanted to take the FWC out. Granted that then takes away my self-contained capability and requires me to either drop the trailer before I go wheeling or drag it along and deal with it outback.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by DamageWagon » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:59 pm

Those 4WheelCampers are HEAVY HEAVY. Their posted weight is garbage. You’re likely looking at minimum 1500lbs once you add water and some gear. The true full-size campers easily tip 1800+lbs.

This was a huge reason we built ours from scratch. All the campers on the market are very heavy.

You WILL sag with that much weight. Air bags for stability and load capacity will definitely be needed. You might see if you can plop one in the bed to see how it looks if you don’t own it yet

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by Tejas » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:17 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:59 pm
Those 4WheelCampers are HEAVY HEAVY. Their posted weight is garbage. You’re likely looking at minimum 1500lbs once you add water and some gear. The true full-size campers easily tip 1800+lbs.

You WILL sag with that much weight. Air bags for stability and load capacity will definitely be needed. You might see if you can plop one in the bed to see how it looks if you don’t own it yet
A fully optioned Grandby model might be touching 1800lbs with batteries/inverter/water/propane/fridge/etc. but there's no way that a shell model Hawk comes anywhere close to 1500lbs+.

I agree that in order to do it correctly and safely I should install air bags, but I plan to test load a Hawk in the back later this week to see first hand how much it sags without them.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by DamageWagon » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:39 pm

The weight ratings as I understand do not include anything whatsoever in the camper. Add a full water tank, any grey water, any camping gear, mountain bikes, lots and pans, food, it is EASY to hit 1500. I have a friend that had a Grandby, it weighed 2300lbs with water.

Yours is smaller of course, just understand that the numbers are huge compared to what is usually expected.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by Tejas » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:00 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:39 pm
The weight ratings as I understand do not include anything whatsoever in the camper. Add a full water tank, any grey water, any camping gear, mountain bikes, lots and pans, food, it is EASY to hit 1500. I have a friend that had a Grandby, it weighed 2300lbs with water.

Yours is smaller of course, just understand that the numbers are huge compared to what is usually expected.
Understandable and I agree that their listed weight ratings are likely empty weights without fluids and batteries. The shell version is devoid of water/sinks/built-ins for those items as well so there are some serious weight savings.

The air bags are cheap enough that I can justify installing them for the sake of safety. It looks like I will have to get the Daystar cradles separately as no one sells them as a package as far as I can see.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by DamageWagon » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:21 pm

Oh gotcha, that’s cool. We had a Coleman stove, 5 gallon water bladder and bottled water, and a laptop to watch movies on in our camper. That did just fine and we really enjoyed the lower weight. I think having less weight and fewer things to go wrong in the camper is likely a rewarding move.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:17 pm

Tejas wrote:
DamageWagon wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:39 pm
The weight ratings as I understand do not include anything whatsoever in the camper. Add a full water tank, any grey water, any camping gear, mountain bikes, lots and pans, food, it is EASY to hit 1500. I have a friend that had a Grandby, it weighed 2300lbs with water.

Yours is smaller of course, just understand that the numbers are huge compared to what is usually expected.
Understandable and I agree that their listed weight ratings are likely empty weights without fluids and batteries. The shell version is devoid of water/sinks/built-ins for those items as well so there are some serious weight savings.

The air bags are cheap enough that I can justify installing them for the sake of safety. It looks like I will have to get the Daystar cradles separately as no one sells them as a package as far as I can see.
Nope you have to buy the Airlift 5000 Ultimates and Daystar cradles separately. You end up throwing away a large portion of the Airlift bottom bracketry that traditionally attaches to the axle. You drill and tap the bump pad instead and bolt the cradle directly to it.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by Tejas » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:37 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:21 pm
Oh gotcha, that’s cool. We had a Coleman stove, 5 gallon water bladder and bottled water, and a laptop to watch movies on in our camper. That did just fine and we really enjoyed the lower weight. I think having less weight and fewer things to go wrong in the camper is likely a rewarding move.
I agree, KISS is a good method to live by and those items can always be added later for much less. I also like the idea of not having to winterize the camper as well.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by Tejas » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:37 pm

TankerZak wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:17 pm
Tejas wrote:
DamageWagon wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:39 pm
The weight ratings as I understand do not include anything whatsoever in the camper. Add a full water tank, any grey water, any camping gear, mountain bikes, lots and pans, food, it is EASY to hit 1500. I have a friend that had a Grandby, it weighed 2300lbs with water.

Yours is smaller of course, just understand that the numbers are huge compared to what is usually expected.
Understandable and I agree that their listed weight ratings are likely empty weights without fluids and batteries. The shell version is devoid of water/sinks/built-ins for those items as well so there are some serious weight savings.

The air bags are cheap enough that I can justify installing them for the sake of safety. It looks like I will have to get the Daystar cradles separately as no one sells them as a package as far as I can see.
Nope you have to buy the Airlift 5000 Ultimates and Daystar cradles separately. You end up throwing away a large portion of the Airlift bottom bracketry that traditionally attaches to the axle. You drill and tap the bump pad instead and bolt the cradle directly to it.

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What size drill bit and tap do I need for the cradle install?

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:47 pm

Tejas wrote:
TankerZak wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:17 pm
Tejas wrote: Understandable and I agree that their listed weight ratings are likely empty weights without fluids and batteries. The shell version is devoid of water/sinks/built-ins for those items as well so there are some serious weight savings.

The air bags are cheap enough that I can justify installing them for the sake of safety. It looks like I will have to get the Daystar cradles separately as no one sells them as a package as far as I can see.
Nope you have to buy the Airlift 5000 Ultimates and Daystar cradles separately. You end up throwing away a large portion of the Airlift bottom bracketry that traditionally attaches to the axle. You drill and tap the bump pad instead and bolt the cradle directly to it.

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What size drill bit and tap do I need for the cradle install?
3/8 i think. I'd check the write ups here. There are two good ones.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:46 pm

Tejas wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:37 pm

What size drill bit and tap do I need for the cradle install?
That depends on what size bolt you use :D



What ever came about of the idea of mounting the cradle to the bottom of the bag instead of the axle? Isn't there a threaded insert at the base of the bag that could be utilized for mounting the cradle to it? Or is that just a bad idea with no real benefit over mounting it to the axle?
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by DamageWagon » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:52 pm

Mounting the cradle to the bottom of the bag does not make sense. It would do nothing. It would be the same as running no cradle.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:04 pm

olyelr wrote:
Tejas wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:37 pm

What size drill bit and tap do I need for the cradle install?
That depends on what size bolt you use :D



What ever came about of the idea of mounting the cradle to the bottom of the bag instead of the axle? Isn't there a threaded insert at the base of the bag that could be utilized for mounting the cradle to it? Or is that just a bad idea with no real benefit over mounting it to the axle?
Bad idea. I drove for two weeks with no cradle and I could hear the airbags scrapping across the bump pad as the body flexed during normal casual driving.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:52 pm

I get it... the cradle is more to keep the bag from wanting to kick out to the side during compression, yet still allowing the bag to disconnect during full droop.

Hey thats my first brain fart of the day, not bad!
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:57 pm

And although its not in a kit, George has everything needed in one location, including several different onboard air setup's to choose from if desired...

https://8lugtruckgear.com/Air-Bags-c192/
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by Tejas » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:45 am

olyelr wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:57 pm
And although its not in a kit, George has everything needed in one location, including several different onboard air setup's to choose from if desired...

https://8lugtruckgear.com/Air-Bags-c192/
Are there any coupons or discount codes I should be aware of for his site? I've seen better prices elsewhere is why I ask.

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