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Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:02 pm
by JFordBronco
Ok, so while I was in Waseca, MN house hunting last week, I had my "low tire" light come on. I checked the dash display and the tires were all low. Like 15+ pounds low. When I left from down here in Louisiana, the tires were at their recommended inflation. I understand there is a dramatic drop in temperature between here and there and the chaos that ensues with the tire pressure, soooooo, that being said, would it be beneficial to deflate my tires totally(or as much as I can) and have tire shop add nitrogen? I can get it done reasonably cheap. Anyone ever done that?

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:37 pm
by DocPaulo
Costco does it... just remember atmosphere is 78%nitrogen... so you're paying to get another 20% or so... helpful in high performance situations and racing where tires heat up between laps...

I think it was 15$ per tire or so

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:48 pm
by ghaugo
We ran them with nitrogen at work, and my wife's car used to have it. It never made much of a difference. It was marginally better at keeping a stable pressure. I would just check them once and a while when you get big temp changes.

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:06 pm
by Ducky's Dad
It's an excuse to get on board air. Do it.

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:07 pm
by nts007
I use nitrogen for on board air. It works in tires. It also works air tools well with almost nil moisture. But you gotta pay to play right

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:24 am
by DocPaulo
nts007 wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:07 pm
I use nitrogen for on board air. It works in tires. It also works air tools well with almost nil moisture. But you gotta pay to play right
That's probably quite the setup... pics? Specs? Probably cost a lot

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:45 am
by nts007
DocPaulo wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:24 am
nts007 wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:07 pm
I use nitrogen for on board air. It works in tires. It also works air tools well with almost nil moisture. But you gotta pay to play right
That's probably quite the setup... pics? Specs? Probably cost a lot
On my computer. I'll put them up tonight. The most expensive part was the tank and regulator. Other then that some connect couplings, copper pipe, feeder hose and some steel for the bracket and was all done.

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:53 am
by olyelr
All the guess work is done with these kits. Not cheap, but nothing good is.

https://powertank.com

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:41 pm
by Rodeoflyer
I've been looking at the low pressure lights so long now I'm used to it. Temp changes affect pressure 10-15lbs.

I run my 35's at 30r/35f psi and they're wearing perfectly. I'll probably get 50k miles out of these cooper stt pros.

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:43 pm
by RustyPW
N2 in tires for road going vehicles is snake oil. You can never get all the mixed air out and get close to 100% N2 in the tire. You will always have a mixture in there. The only way to have 100% N2 in the tire. Is to install the tire on the rim in an enclosed air tight chamber filled with N2. Air is already 78%. You paying someone to put N2 in your tires. Just send me the money instead. I worked for Goodyear way back when. We played around with N2 with other gases too. Moisture in the air is the biggest issue. If you use dry air. You would be better off. Most shop air compressors do not have dryers on the discharge side of it. So they have lots of moisture in the air. On my air compressor. I use a dryer set up with a collecting point to drain. Plus I drain the compressor after ever use.

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:48 pm
by KevinABQ
RustyPW wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:43 pm
N2 in tires for road going vehicles is snake oil. You can never get all the mixed air out and get close to 100% N2 in the tire. You will always have a mixture in there. The only way to have 100% N2 in the tire. Is to install the tire on the rim in an enclosed air tight chamber filled with N2. Air is already 78%. You paying someone to N2 in your tires. Just send me the money instead. I worked for Goodyear way back when. We played around with N2 with other gases too. Moisture in the air is the biggest issue. If you use dry air. You would be better off. Most shop air compressors do not have dryers on the discharge side of it. So they have lots of moisture in the air. On my air compressor. I use a dryer set up with a collecting point to drain. Plus I drain the compressor after ever use.
Iirc, eight total purges with argon was what you needed to produce an inert atmosphere in a glove box. I presume you could do that with nitrogen in your tires, but not sure about the payoff to do that.

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:29 pm
by RustyPW
KevinABQ wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:48 pm
RustyPW wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:43 pm
N2 in tires for road going vehicles is snake oil. You can never get all the mixed air out and get close to 100% N2 in the tire. You will always have a mixture in there. The only way to have 100% N2 in the tire. Is to install the tire on the rim in an enclosed air tight chamber filled with N2. Air is already 78%. You paying someone to N2 in your tires. Just send me the money instead. I worked for Goodyear way back when. We played around with N2 with other gases too. Moisture in the air is the biggest issue. If you use dry air. You would be better off. Most shop air compressors do not have dryers on the discharge side of it. So they have lots of moisture in the air. On my air compressor. I use a dryer set up with a collecting point to drain. Plus I drain the compressor after ever use.
Iirc, eight total purges with argon was what you needed to produce an inert atmosphere in a glove box. I presume you could do that with nitrogen in your tires, but not sure about the payoff to do that.
Cost vs benefit. Not worth it.

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:33 am
by Bill2014
I'm pretty sure that there is no measurable benefit in the Power Wagon using Nitrogen.

I typically only add air to my tires once a year - in December after the outside temp drops below 0 degrees.

AND - since we have TPMS, I never have to check the pressures with a gauge. :cheers:

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:05 pm
by DocPaulo
Bill2014 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:33 am
I'm pretty sure that there is no measurable benefit in the Power Wagon using Nitrogen.

I typically only add air to my tires once a year - in December after the outside temp drops below 0 degrees.

AND - since we have TPMS, I never have to check the pressures with a gauge. :cheers:
Considering we are overinflated to begin with unless towing... definitely no benefit... its just another moneymaker for tire shops

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:45 pm
by ramv
If you have an easily corroded substance (bare steel wheels for example) pure, dry N2 may be worthwhile. Of course even liquid N2 isn't pure, and compressed N2 definitely isn't, typically still has some O2 and H20. In a truck tire, you shouldn't notice any difference between CO2 (much cheaper and more compact than N2 as it's stored as a liquid), N2, and good old air. I have all three in my tires. If you want to be all scientific, try one of each. If you see more than 5 psi difference, it would be worth a post!! (I haven't).

In drilling applications, it makes sense to use a N2 membrane unit to knock O2 out of the air to reduce drill pipe corrosion and potentially explosion when combined with hydrocarbons. In the tire world, none of this stuff makes a hill of beans. (Many of my customers use air rather than n2 for drilling as well...)

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:01 am
by RustyPW
ramv wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:45 pm
If you have an easily corroded substance (bare steel wheels for example) pure, dry N2 may be worthwhile. Of course even liquid N2 isn't pure, and compressed N2 definitely isn't, typically still has some O2 and H20. In a truck tire, you shouldn't notice any difference between CO2 (much cheaper and more compact than N2 as it's stored as a liquid), N2, and good old air. I have all three in my tires. If you want to be all scientific, try one of each. If you see more than 5 psi difference, it would be worth a post!! (I haven't).

In drilling applications, it makes sense to use a N2 membrane unit to knock O2 out of the air to reduce drill pipe corrosion and potentially explosion when combined with hydrocarbons. In the tire world, none of this stuff makes a hill of beans. (Many of my customers use air rather than n2 for drilling as well...)
Talking about gases. Most large power plants use hydrogen to cool their generators. :shock: We used to go through a large semi trailer worth in a month.

Re: Nitrogen in tires???

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:35 am
by Bill2014
ramv wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:45 pm
If you have an easily corroded substance (bare steel wheels for example) pure, dry N2 may be worthwhile. Of course even liquid N2 isn't pure, and compressed N2 definitely isn't, typically still has some O2 and H20. In a truck tire, you shouldn't notice any difference between CO2 (much cheaper and more compact than N2 as it's stored as a liquid), N2, and good old air. I have all three in my tires. If you want to be all scientific, try one of each. If you see more than 5 psi difference, it would be worth a post!! (I haven't).

In drilling applications, it makes sense to use a N2 membrane unit to knock O2 out of the air to reduce drill pipe corrosion and potentially explosion when combined with hydrocarbons. In the tire world, none of this stuff makes a hill of beans. (Many of my customers use air rather than n2 for drilling as well...)
Some of us make our own large volume - Ultra High Purity N2 (and other gasses) at work. :wink:

But even having access to it for free, there is no measurable benefit in the Power Wagon wheels using Pure Nitrogen.