37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by DamageWagon » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:58 pm

Colibri wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:16 pm
DamageWagon wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:52 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:10 pm
He's not the only one. I think Lee blew up a set of Nitro 9.25.
I believe Lee was towing someone out of mud, in reverse. Operator error.

Chris S in Moab knew what he was doing on the original install and the culprit came down to the ring gear hardware supplied by Nitro being too short. The bolts all came unscrewed or sheared if I remember correctly, which took out the locker and pinion.

I don’t know this Chris s guy and I don’t know what he did on original install however-

The original 5.13 gears supplied by nitro and Yukon are both meant for the Chevy IFS AAM 9.25

To use them on the solid axle you need to use a ring gear spacer to allow proper gear setup. If you don’t use the spacer, you bottom out one adjuster and max out the other. The bolts supplied with the gear set are not long enough to use the ring gear spacer because they’re not meant to be used with one. You need to get oem dodge application ring gear bolts which are in fact longer.

That’s very likely the culprit of his failure. If it is, then that’s not a nitro quality issue, it’s an install error issue.

This is how internet rumors get started lol. Nitro makes a good quality gear for our application.
That would make perfect sense. I believe he mentioned the spacer ring.

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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:13 pm

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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:52 pm

With 37s, there is only a 100 RPM difference between 4.88 and 5.13 at 70mph. 5.13 with 40s is roughly the same as 4.10 with 33s.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by BoldAdventure » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:54 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:52 pm
With 37s, there is only a 100 RPM difference between 4.88 and 5.13 at 70mph. 5.13 with 40s is roughly the same as 4.10 with 33s.
Did you make your final decision yet? The extra UMPH with 5.13's and 37's before going to 40's is kind of appealing.

But, overall, here is what I got from an online calculator

4.10 stock & 33's
2713.45 RPM @ 65mph

4.88 & 37's
2880.52 RPM @ 65mph

5:13 & 37's
3028.09 RPM @ 65mph

Now add 40's and

5.13 & 40's
2800.98 RPM @65mph

----

5.13's seem like a perfect fit for 40's. And maybe... maybe a FUN fit for 37's over 4.88 if you don't mind the higher RPM's

Anyways, that was just a calc on Summit, so take that accuracy with a large grain of salt.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:42 pm

I got a little different numbers but they're still close. Yeah, 5.13s it is. The RPM difference is more critical for diesel applications.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Colibri » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:16 pm

If you’re going 40’s you’d be far better served by 5.38’s
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:23 pm

God damn it!
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by BoldAdventure » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:08 pm

Can you even get 5.38's for our gen though?
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:23 pm

Yes. I'm still going to use 5.13. I'm sure 5.38 would be better in party mode but 5.13 has OE gear sets available and I'm going to error on highway streetability.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by EasyDoesIt » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:25 pm

MikeKey wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:54 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:52 pm
With 37s, there is only a 100 RPM difference between 4.88 and 5.13 at 70mph. 5.13 with 40s is roughly the same as 4.10 with 33s.
Did you make your final decision yet? The extra UMPH with 5.13's and 37's before going to 40's is kind of appealing.

But, overall, here is what I got from an online calculator

4.10 stock & 33's
2713.45 RPM @ 65mph

4.88 & 37's
2880.52 RPM @ 65mph

5:13 & 37's
3028.09 RPM @ 65mph

Now add 40's and

5.13 & 40's
2800.98 RPM @65mph

----

5.13's seem like a perfect fit for 40's. And maybe... maybe a FUN fit for 37's over 4.88 if you don't mind the higher RPM's

Anyways, that was just a calc on Summit, so take that accuracy with a large grain of salt.
I'm not sure what transmission you used in your calculations but those RPMs cant be right.

With stock gearing and stock tires in my 2018, my RPMs at 65mph were 1800.
With stock gearing and 37's tires, my RPMs at 65mph (via gps) are 1500.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:35 pm

http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

4.10 w/ 33

Road RPMs at given speed in miles per hour
Gear
10

35

65
1 1348 4719 8764
2 764 2674 4966
3 589 2060 3826
4 417 1461 2713
5 338 1183 2198
6 259 906 1682

5.13 w/37

Gear
10

35

65
1 1505 5267 9781
2 853 2984 5541
3 657 2299 4270
4 466 1631 3028
5 377 1321 2453
6 289 1011 1877
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Colibri » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:48 pm

Tire size to gear ratio calculators are very useful tools, BUT, they fail to take weight into consideration.

My tire/wheel combo comes in at about 140-150 pounds with 37x13.50r17 toyo mt’s and Hutchinson’s.

I have 5.13’s a high stall converter and a built transmission, I still sometimes wish I’d gone deeper with the gearing. It’s pretty damn quick for such a big and heavy gasser and it tows reasonably well up to about 8-10k but you can really feel the weight and rolling resistance of the bigger rubber. 40’s will be worse. 37 is 94 pounds and the 40’s are 104 pounds. My wheels are heavier than most but either way that’s a shit ton of rubber to push around.

Just sayin
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by BoldAdventure » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:44 pm

Colibri wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:48 pm
Tire size to gear ratio calculators are very useful tools, BUT, they fail to take weight into consideration.

Just sayin
Agreed. As a guide only, because they all seem to vary.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by KevinABQ » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:30 pm

Colibri wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:48 pm
My tire/wheel combo comes in at about 140-150 pounds with 37x13.50r17 toyo mt’s and Hutchinson’s.
What model Hutchinson work best?
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Colibri » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:53 pm

Mine is a third gen. It’s the 5.28” backspace model. Not sure what would be optimal for a radius arm truck just off the top of my head though. Really great wheels.
Central Texas and Houston area
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:13 pm

Colibri wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:16 pm
If you’re going 40’s you’d be far better served by 5.38’s
Having now driven the truck with 5.13's and 37" tires I think you are probably correct. The 66RFE trans gearing is tall enough that 4.88 should be the factory gearing, not 4.10. 5.13's with 37's feels pretty good and will probably still be OK with 40's but 5.38's will never be too deep. The only downside is there aren't any OE gear sets available in 5.38.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by adeluca73 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:06 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:13 pm
Colibri wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:16 pm
If you’re going 40’s you’d be far better served by 5.38’s
feels pretty good and will probably still be OK, but 5.38” will never be too deep.
That’s what she said ... :lol:

But seriously, I have a ½” worth of gear envy. This is sort of analogous to the 2.5” vs 3.0” front King debate. When do you hit the point of diminishing returns? Not sure, I know 2WAGs blew up his rear end with 5.13’s, who knows why, shit gear, bad install, lash errors, metallurgy failure, but I do know there’s less margin as you scale up tire size and scale up the ratio (down the gear size). 4.88’s were my comfort zone, pumped to see your 40’s crawling on those 5.13’s. Maybe I’ll get the itch again.., :cash:
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:13 pm

adeluca73 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:06 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:13 pm
Colibri wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:16 pm
If you’re going 40’s you’d be far better served by 5.38’s
feels pretty good and will probably still be OK, but 5.38” will never be too deep.
That’s what she said ... :lol:

But seriously, I have a ½” worth of gear envy. This is sort of analogous to the 2.5” vs 3.0” front King debate. When do you hit the point of diminishing returns? Not sure, I know 2WAGs blew up his rear end with 5.13’s, who knows why, shit gear, bad install, lash errors, metallurgy failure, but I do know there’s less margin as you scale up tire size and scale up the ratio (down the gear size). 4.88’s were my comfort zone, pumped to see your 40’s crawling on those 5.13’s. Maybe I’ll get the itch again.., :cash:
Lee broke his front gears pulling someone in reverse. I don't think you can go too low gears with the larger tires. 5.38's are probably too low for 33" tires.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by BoldAdventure » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:01 pm

I'm sold. I just gotta go to the secret Maple Base to get help with my gears and get a rear bumper built.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:40 pm

2k RPM's at 70MPH seems perfect. I should have gone 5.38. It's not going to be a bust but 5.13 feels so good with 37's. Older trucks with the 545 is a whole different story.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by adeluca73 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:26 am

Reloaderguy wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:13 pm
adeluca73 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:06 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:13 pm


feels pretty good and will probably still be OK, but 5.38” will never be too deep.
That’s what she said ... :lol:

But seriously, I have a ½” worth of gear envy. This is sort of analogous to the 2.5” vs 3.0” front King debate. When do you hit the point of diminishing returns? Not sure, I know 2WAGs blew up his rear end with 5.13’s, who knows why, shit gear, bad install, lash errors, metallurgy failure, but I do know there’s less margin as you scale up tire size and scale up the ratio (down the gear size). 4.88’s were my comfort zone, pumped to see your 40’s crawling on those 5.13’s. Maybe I’ll get the itch again.., :cash:
Lee broke his front gears pulling someone in reverse. I don't think you can go too low gears with the larger tires. 5.38's are probably too low for 33" tires.
Yep...as you’re upping the tire size, you gotta grow the gears to turn them, so the effective ratio by RPM at 65mph with 5.13 & 40’s, is about the same as 4:88 & 37/4:56 & 35/4.11 & 33 , about 2800RPM +-~5%.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:38 am

That was my original train of thought. 5.13 w/ 40's is roughly equivalent to 4.88 w/37's. However, that makes the assumption that 4.88 w/ 37's is optimal. Now that I have hands on experience with 5.13 w/37's I would probably not go with 4.88 w/ 37's. I doubt I would yank out the 4.88 for 5.13 though.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Bill2014 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:51 am

If you only do work in the forward direction, it reduces to a question of optimization...
If backing something heavy up a winding hill in 4Lo is in the picture, I would think twice about the "weaker" gear set.
I've been in 4Lo reverse with the wheels taking turns breaking loose - stock gears - hoping I don't hear a snap and have things come to a grinding halt. :notworthy:

If it wasn't for the strength concern, I may have regeared even with the 33's. (for the way I use the PW)

On the other hand, the Power Wagons aren't high torque diesels so maybe it doesn't matter.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:54 am

Bill2014 wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:51 am
If you only do work in the forward direction, it reduces to a question of optimization...
If backing something heavy up a winding hill in 4Lo is in the picture, I would think twice about the "weaker" gear set.
I've been in 4Lo reverse with the wheels taking turns breaking loose - stock gears - hoping I don't hear a snap and have things come to a grinding halt. :notworthy:

If it wasn't for the strength concern, I may have regeared even with the 33's. (for the way I use the PW)

On the other hand, the Power Wagons aren't high torque diesels so maybe it doesn't matter.
With 37's you're more likely to hear your transmission snap.
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Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by olyelr » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:24 pm

Bill2014 wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:51 am
If you only do work in the forward direction, it reduces to a question of optimization...
If backing something heavy up a winding hill in 4Lo is in the picture, I would think twice about the "weaker" gear set.
I've been in 4Lo reverse with the wheels taking turns breaking loose - stock gears - hoping I don't hear a snap and have things come to a grinding halt. :notworthy:

If it wasn't for the strength concern, I may have regeared even with the 33's. (for the way I use the PW)

On the other hand, the Power Wagons aren't high torque diesels so maybe it doesn't matter.


I am on stock size tires as I think you are, and even with those I would like 4.56's, if not 4.88's. The trans gears are just so high.

When the jump to 37's comes I think I will go to 5.13's.
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