Brakes Lacking Power?

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rgoode
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Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by rgoode » Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:23 am

Hey All,

So I got my new (2015) PW back in January, and I've had a great time with it so far. One question that I have about it is about the brakes. When driving down the road/highway/interstate etc. and someone pulls out right in front of me, I of course slam on the brakes. However, so far, I haven't been able to get the truck to slow down fast enough to get the ABS to kick in. I've done this on both wet roads and dry roads, but I can't get the tires to come close to locking up. Having never driven a PW before this truck, is this normal?

Thanks in advance for the responses.
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by GunniPWguy » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:00 pm

Can't speak for 2015's but my 05 doesn't exactly stop on a dime either. A lot of rolling mass to slow down fast I guess? I have had thoughts of replacing the rotors and pads to see if that would help. Hopefully someone else will chime in. Would slotted rotors and some high performance pads get it to skid?
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by dodgeman324 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:04 pm

I upgraded my front brakes to drilled/slotted rotors with some good full ceramic pads, and it definitely improved my braking ability, but I haven't yet encountered a situation where the pedal to the floor was required so can't speak on getting ABS to kick in. But, I did notice a good improvement over the stock rotors and pads, feels like it would save my front end if that situation arises.
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by Ducky's Dad » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:10 pm

My '05 stops just fine with stock brakes on 35s. The only times I have noticed the ABS kicking in are on sand and gravel. With the weight of this truck, I drive very carefully in the occasional rain and snow that we get here, and have never noticed ABS in those conditions.

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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by Colibri » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:32 pm

Generally speaking, getting your abs to kick in is not a goal to reach for lol. You're driving a heavy 3/4 ton truck not a sports car. That being said stock you have enough braking power to stop you plus many thousands of pounds of cargo and trailered weight as well, it just behaves and feels different than a smaller vehicle. If you want more there are good aftermarket solutions. When I moved up to 37's I experienced a noticeable loss in braking power, but ebc rotors and pads regained most of it.
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by TheDirtRoad » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:24 pm

I have a 2014 and I know exactly what you are talking about . The pedal is really soft and you have to push really hard just to get the truck to slow down, My company truck is a F-250 fully loaded with tools and it only takes minimal pressure on the pedal to slow that truck. When I shift from 4 high to 4 low while on an incline the pedal gets even softer. I've had it on a downhill where it took both feet on the pedal to keep it from rolling (in 4 lo). There are times it makes me a little nervous because I feel they should work better than they do. I have no answers, but if you figure anything out let me know. I have never had the ABS kick in either (even on a dirt road) mostly because it feels like the brakes aren't grabbing hard enough. My truck goes in on the October 13th to have all of the recalls taken care of, so if I get time I will test drive a new 2500 just to test the brakes, it won't be a PW as they don't have any on the lot.

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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by loveracing1988 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:56 pm

All of the srw HD trucks share the same brakes so it is essentially apples to apples but I can do a panic stop from 45ish and the abs kicks in on dry pavement for me with my 2014 2500. I did do one panic stop from 70 to 40 when I first bought it and I don't think it locked up the brakes but I can't remember. The tires may be causing the discrepancy though, I'm sure the Duratracs you have have better grip than the transforce tires my truck came with. I get my new tires tomorrow so I will see if I notice any change in the braking.

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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by RustyPW » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:27 pm

Change pads to EBC Yellowstuff. And bed the pads in. Also bleed the brake system. You might have some air in there.

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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by Jack187 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:02 pm

I had noticed the same thing on my 2015 right after I bought it. The brakes seemed soft and slow to actually stop. When braking hard, I have never had the ABS activate. Not once.
I initally wrote it off as having to adjust my driving habits to the vehicle. The funny thing is, I also thought the acceleration was a little sluggish and it felt like the shifting was a bit off.
I wrote that off also as just needing to adapt to the new truck.

I went to larger tires (37s) about 10 days after buying the truck, and it seemed to get a little worse. I still wrote it off as my perception.
After about 3k miles on the vehicle, all of a sudden the truck is braking better, handling non-full throttle acceleration a lot better and is much more responsive.

Nothing has been changed on the vehicle, since I bought it, with the exception of the tires.
I tend to think it took this long for the computer to finish it's learning cycle that it bases on the last 300 or so driving cycles. I can't really come up with another cause.
If I see anything that might give an indication as to another cause, I'll let you know.
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by TheDirtRoad » Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:27 pm

Jack187 wrote:I had noticed the same thing on my 2015 right after I bought it. The brakes seemed soft and slow to actually stop. When braking hard, I have never had the ABS activate. Not once.
I initally wrote it off as having to adjust my driving habits to the vehicle. The funny thing is, I also thought the acceleration was a little sluggish and it felt like the shifting was a bit off.
I wrote that off also as just needing to adapt to the new truck.

I went to larger tires (37s) about 10 days after buying the truck, and it seemed to get a little worse. I still wrote it off as my perception.
After about 3k miles on the vehicle, all of a sudden the truck is braking better, handling non-full throttle acceleration a lot better and is much more responsive.

Nothing has been changed on the vehicle, since I bought it, with the exception of the tires.
I tend to think it took this long for the computer to finish it's learning cycle that it bases on the last 300 or so driving cycles. I can't really come up with another cause.
If I see anything that might give an indication as to another cause, I'll let you know.
I am really glad rgoode started this thread, I have been feeling the same way as you were. I have 12,000 miles on the truck and it's brakes have been the same since I drove it off the lot. Should I ( or the wife since she drives it more than me) start braking harder to make the computer learn ? I am assuming that is what you did without realizing it do to your bigger tires. The acceleration is superb in this truck , it will spin the tires easily on pavement even with traction control turned on.I just throught I would throw that in there since you mentioned you were having issues with braking and acceleration.

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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by TheWorstKind » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:21 am

I just got my 2015 PW a couple of weeks ago. Without a doubt, my heavier F-350 Powerstroke has a better brake-feel. The F-350 also has brake pads for towing duty; I forgot the name-brand - I'll look it up soon. It is a very noticeable difference. I must agree with one of the previous posters: it should not be the goal to kick-in the ABS (unless intentionally testing to see where the limits are - afterall, racing improves the breed! :D )
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by RedMan » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:01 am

Ducky's Dad wrote:My '05 stops just fine with stock brakes on 35s. The only times I have noticed the ABS kicking in are on sand and gravel. With the weight of this truck, I drive very carefully in the occasional rain and snow that we get here, and have never noticed ABS in those conditions.
I second that... my 05 w/35s drives and brakes with ease.

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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by Will » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:11 am

The factory pedal "feel" is somewhat soft but the harder you push it, the harder it'll stop. Mine was fine on 35's, by the time I went to 37's it was time for new pads anyway. I went with the Hawk SuperDuty pads and did the break in on them. The pedal still feels the same but I can stop fast enough to make you light headed. If the tires are doing their part, you shouldn't experiences ABS activation anyway. The pedal is not as sensitive as some other manufactures but it will stop when needed.
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by rgoode » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:11 am

Thanks for all of the replies so far. I'm glad it's not just me experiencing this 'issue.' I am fairly light-footed on the brake; i would rather coast down from speed than use the brakes if I can. But if Jack187 is correct about the brakes noticeably improving after switching to larger tires and letting the computer 'break-in,' then would there be a way to get the computer to forget your current driving style, then brake harder than you normally would for the first 3k or so? Does the computer even interfere with the mechanics between the brake pedal and the brakes (not counting abs)?
Will wrote:The factory pedal "feel" is somewhat soft but the harder you push it, the harder it'll stop. Mine was fine on 35's, by the time I went to 37's it was time for new pads anyway. I went with the Hawk SuperDuty pads and did the break in on them. The pedal still feels the same but I can stop fast enough to make you light headed. If the tires are doing their part, you shouldn't experiences ABS activation anyway. The pedal is not as sensitive as some other manufactures but it will stop when needed.
I have had the pedal down as far as it will go. I've driven a few older cars without vacuum assisted brakes, so I'm not afraid to really hit the pedal if I need to, but the truck still does not slow down as quickly as I would like it to.
TheWorstKind wrote:I must agree with one of the previous posters: it should not be the goal to kick-in the ABS (unless intentionally testing to see where the limits are - afterall, racing improves the breed! :D )

My goal isn't really to get the abs to kick-in, but like you said, I would like to know the limits on how fast my truck can stop if need be. I would prefer to have a truck that can stop as quickly as possible, and having abs kick-in at the end of the brake pedal travel would accomplish that without being a pro at threshold braking.[/quote]
TheDirtRoad wrote: I am really glad rgoode started this thread, I have been feeling the same way as you were. I have 12,000 miles on the truck and it's brakes have been the same since I drove it off the lot. Should I ( or the wife since she drives it more than me) start braking harder to make the computer learn ? I am assuming that is what you did without realizing it do to your bigger tires. The acceleration is superb in this truck , it will spin the tires easily on pavement even with traction control turned on.I just throught I would throw that in there since you mentioned you were having issues with braking and acceleration.
The acceleration has always been fine in the truck since I bought it. I received it on a rainy day, and the back-end broke loose a few times before I got used to it. Before this, I was driving an '03 Excursion with the 7.3L and it was quite the change in power. But even having said that, the Excursion (built on a 3/4 ton chassis and weighing around 8,000lbs) would kick-in the abs every now and then.


Basically what I'm gathering so far is that the 3rd gen trucks are braking fine, but some people are having concerns about the 4th gen trucks braking ability. I took the truck into the shop the other day to have the recall done, and while there, they tested the brakes and the tech said they were fine. The truck is fine right now and I'm not worried about it when it's empty, but since the brakes are having a little trouble stopping the truck empty, I do get a little concerned when I'm pulling some decent weight behind me.
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by 14PowerWaggy » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:16 am

Same problem on my 15 wagon... Never felt like the brakes were any good... Went to 37's and really felt like I wasn't going to stop... Added the Power Stop Extreme pads... It made a big difference over stock brakes... I've heard different things about slotted and dimpled rotors so I haven't gone that route yet but would still like a better braking experience...
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by coder » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:54 pm

RedMan wrote:
Ducky's Dad wrote:My '05 stops just fine with stock brakes on 35s. The only times I have noticed the ABS kicking in are on sand and gravel. With the weight of this truck, I drive very carefully in the occasional rain and snow that we get here, and have never noticed ABS in those conditions.
I second that... my 05 w/35s drives and brakes with ease.

Good luck
x3 my 07 brakes feel fine, but once the ABS kicks in there is nothing you can do you can put it to the floor and hold it but you will keep rolling.

ABS it did save me from sliding on snow/ice through a red light into an intersection once so it does work, just not real practical off-road, I think ABS is disabled by the computer in 4Low on PWs.
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by Ducky's Dad » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:06 pm

I've heard different things about slotted and dimpled rotors so I haven't gone that route yet
I have had different combinations of slotted, dimpled, and cross-drilled rotors on three different trucks (two GM's and one Toyota), and that stuff is overrated on a truck. Marginal improvements, at best, and not worth the cost of the upgrade unless you need to replace your rotors anyway. Even then, probably not worth the cost, unless you buy smart.

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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by azracer » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:23 am

If you want to see if it is ABS or bad brakes pull the ABS fuse and retry the panic stop.
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by TwinStick » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:17 am

I used Rockauto.com. One click brake package. $500 to my door. Power Stop Drilled, zinc plated, & slotted & Z36 pads. Huge improvement over stock on my 08". Half the price of EBC. Not as good as EBC but MUCH better than stock. Been on for almost 2 years in the NY salt. Just starting to show the slightest sign of corrosion. Stock ones corroded within 4 months of taking delivery.
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by 2wagons1driveway » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:09 am

Ebc yellow stuff pads made a HUGE difference on my truck. Stock rotors. The bite force is ridiculous when paired with stainless lines. It will stop 37" Toyos faster then it did with with stock 33" bfg's. Not to mention the brakes get more grip the hotter they get but still very reliable for cold panic stops on the street.


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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by 2011RPW » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:36 am

Sounds like it's the 4.5G's having issues. My 11' stops just fine, even with the 37's.
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by 2wagons1driveway » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:39 pm

Depends how their seated too. If they don't get used "hard " often they may glaze over sometimes a good thrashing really helps them seat again. To a point that is.


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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by Throttle 8 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:35 pm

I will also chime in with the others above me. I went to EBC slotted and dimpled rotors with yellowstuff pads. It stops like a sports car now compared with the stockers. The difference is truly remarkable.
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Re: Brakes Lacking Power?

Post by Will » Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:53 am

2wagons1driveway wrote:Depends how their seated too. If they don't get used "hard " often they may glaze over sometimes a good thrashing really helps them seat again. To a point that is.


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That's a fact, you guys buying these new trucks probably babied them the first dozen stops which didn't help the pads bed :lol: Here's some bedding recommendations.

http://www.hawkperformance.com/sites/de ... edding.pdf

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/tec ... ?techid=85
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