2.5s versus 3" Kings

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ramv
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2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by ramv » Sun May 27, 2018 8:54 pm

Considering doing the PW 2.5" Kings system from Thuren. (1.5" lift). Was going to do Stainless shafts and front boogie bumps (have rear Airlift 5000s Ultimate (internal bumpstarts) and daystars.

Obviously, quite a bit more to go to 3" but is there a value for it? The sad reality I spend 90% of my time on the road, but the other 10%, I want the right gear.
2016 Power Wagon; White Knuckle sliders, 315 BFGs, BD 2Lo Kit, AEV ProCal, Airbags/Daystars, Thuren 2.5" King Power Wagon kit w/ Boogie Bumps, Warn SDP6000

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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by TankerZak » Sun May 27, 2018 10:28 pm

Not sure what to tell you. Are King 3.0s better? Yes, do you need them? Idk, hard call. I was gonna go 2.5s but got a good deal on 3.0s. But if i wouldn't of got that i woulda done 2.5s and been perfectly happy.
2016 Granite Crystal Metallic Power Wagon Laramie, no graphics, debadged, Thuren front and rear coils, Traxada rear 1 inch spacer, Thuren rear swaybar links, Thuren rear trackbar, King 3.0 (Stage 4) front shocks, King 2.5 (Stage 3) rear shocks, Boogie front bump stops, Toyo RT 37x12.5R17 on Raceline Avenger 17x9 +20 wheels, DOR steering brace, Thuren King Steering Damper, White Knuckle rock sliders, Dethloff skid plate, Purple Cranium Half Spider front and rear diff guards, Airlift Ultimate airbags with Daystar cradles, Bakflip Revolver X2 tonneau, AMP BedStep, Factor55 Ultrahook with 100ft 7/16 synthetic winch line, Zroadz Grill with slim 20 inch light bar, DDM Tuning LEDs/HIDs, Magnaflow 19200 modified with upgraded resonator and after axle dump, tinted front windows 35%.

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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by Colibri » Mon May 28, 2018 10:06 am

There’s no replacement for displacement sir. A larger diameter shock performs better on and offroad. The larger the piston surface area the more “leverage” the shock can exert on the valving. That equates to a plusher ride on the 3.0 vs a 2.5 with identical valving. Whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze is entirely subjective, but a 3.0 will ride better in every way than a 2.5. Also, good call on the stainless shafts, they’re a must!
Central Texas and Houston area
2009 5.7 auto quadcab
Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
Custom tube bumpers and white knuckle sliders
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Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by ramv » Mon May 28, 2018 2:43 pm

Hmm.. You guys are horrible influences to the bank account.
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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by ramv » Mon May 28, 2018 2:51 pm

Looks like about $700 difference (I believe Thuren discounts the PW Kin 2.5" kit, so some of that is in no discount on all components..)

On $4k that's less than 20%... Hmmm...
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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by DamageWagon » Tue May 29, 2018 2:07 am

I would never go back to 2.5’s but I use my truck all the time for play and work.

3.0’s ride smoother than comparably valved 2.5’s while also having more bottom out resistance, like Colibri said. If you’re asking if you need 3.0’s, you don’t even need 2.5’s. But ‘need’ is a terrible word and antithesis to capitalism and happiness... comfort has a dollar value and Kings are friggin sweet!!!

For context, I got to install one of the first sets of 3.0’s on TankerZak’s truck last week and his truck, with new shocks (not broken in) with 37” RT’s at street pressure, rode dead on as smooth as the comfiest dodge I’ve ever been in that was running 2.5 coilovers and 4.5 bypasses, almost full race truck. It is stupid how comfortable the new trucks on a full Thuren kit and 3.0’s ride. And yet can tag a curb dead on at 30mph and almost not feel it.

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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by olyelr » Tue May 29, 2018 7:29 am

DamageWagon wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 2:07 am
I would never go back to 2.5’s but I use my truck all the time for play and work.

3.0’s ride smoother than comparably valved 2.5’s while also having more bottom out resistance, like Colibri said. If you’re asking if you need 3.0’s, you don’t even need 2.5’s. But ‘need’ is a terrible word and antithesis to capitalism and happiness... comfort has a dollar value and Kings are friggin sweet!!!

For context, I got to install one of the first sets of 3.0’s on TankerZak’s truck last week and his truck, with new shocks (not broken in) with 37” RT’s at street pressure, rode dead on as smooth as the comfiest dodge I’ve ever been in that was running 2.5 coilovers and 4.5 bypasses, almost full race truck. It is stupid how comfortable the new trucks on a full Thuren kit and 3.0’s ride. And yet can tag a curb dead on at 30mph and almost not feel it.
Oh come on here, would you guys knock this shit out...
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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by Colibri » Tue May 29, 2018 11:02 am

Sadly, it’s all true. 3,0’s are the bees knees
Central Texas and Houston area
2009 5.7 auto quadcab
Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
Custom tube bumpers and white knuckle sliders
Creative fab trussed axle. rem polished and cryoed 5.13 gears with arb lockers fr/rr
Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
Lots of other stuff lol

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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by TankerZak » Tue May 29, 2018 12:51 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 2:07 am
I would never go back to 2.5’s but I use my truck all the time for play and work.

3.0’s ride smoother than comparably valved 2.5’s while also having more bottom out resistance, like Colibri said. If you’re asking if you need 3.0’s, you don’t even need 2.5’s. But ‘need’ is a terrible word and antithesis to capitalism and happiness... comfort has a dollar value and Kings are friggin sweet!!!

For context, I got to install one of the first sets of 3.0’s on TankerZak’s truck last week and his truck, with new shocks (not broken in) with 37” RT’s at street pressure, rode dead on as smooth as the comfiest dodge I’ve ever been in that was running 2.5 coilovers and 4.5 bypasses, almost full race truck. It is stupid how comfortable the new trucks on a full Thuren kit and 3.0’s ride. And yet can tag a curb dead on at 30mph and almost not feel it.
I don't remember a curb... :rockon: :cash: :bump:
2016 Granite Crystal Metallic Power Wagon Laramie, no graphics, debadged, Thuren front and rear coils, Traxada rear 1 inch spacer, Thuren rear swaybar links, Thuren rear trackbar, King 3.0 (Stage 4) front shocks, King 2.5 (Stage 3) rear shocks, Boogie front bump stops, Toyo RT 37x12.5R17 on Raceline Avenger 17x9 +20 wheels, DOR steering brace, Thuren King Steering Damper, White Knuckle rock sliders, Dethloff skid plate, Purple Cranium Half Spider front and rear diff guards, Airlift Ultimate airbags with Daystar cradles, Bakflip Revolver X2 tonneau, AMP BedStep, Factor55 Ultrahook with 100ft 7/16 synthetic winch line, Zroadz Grill with slim 20 inch light bar, DDM Tuning LEDs/HIDs, Magnaflow 19200 modified with upgraded resonator and after axle dump, tinted front windows 35%.

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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by RPS1030 » Wed May 30, 2018 7:32 am

I hate you guys


Correction, my credit card hates you guys.


Ordered

:excited: :drool: :jawdrop: :rockon:

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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by Colibri » Wed May 30, 2018 10:11 am

RPS1030 wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 7:32 am
I hate you guys


Correction, my credit card hates you guys.


Ordered

:excited: :drool: :jawdrop: :rockon:
Hell yes!!! You won’t be sorry sir.
Central Texas and Houston area
2009 5.7 auto quadcab
Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
Custom tube bumpers and white knuckle sliders
Creative fab trussed axle. rem polished and cryoed 5.13 gears with arb lockers fr/rr
Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
Lots of other stuff lol

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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by Reloaderguy » Wed May 30, 2018 10:12 am

I have 2.5's and don't feel like I need more shock. Would I have bought 3.0s if they had been available at the time? Maybe for the right price but Don had to talk me into the 2.5s to start with. The truck rides great and the bigger the tires the better it gets. Not everyone needs race shocks and there is a point of diminishing returns.
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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by BoldAdventure » Wed May 30, 2018 11:11 am

The 3.0's came right out after I bought mine, and I asked Don about them and he assured me that for my needs, the difference would be negligible. I'm incredibly happy with the 2.5's.
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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by PWJouster » Wed May 30, 2018 12:45 pm

3.0s with stage 3F/2R 2.5s has been an insane setup for me...exactly what i was looking for and Don killed it on the tuning.

i almost missed the 3.0 release by a few days... i was to eager to wait and then Don sent out that post. i know the 2.5 would have been PLENTY! but i know as soon as 3.0 was available for our rigs, there was no way i was going to be able to resist.
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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by Chromolykid » Wed May 30, 2018 1:39 pm

I did a lot of shock testing in off-road racing before getting the car dialed in to win races with the help of a “medicine man” who is trusted by many champions. I found that a bigger shock buys you time (cooling), not comfort. That comes from the valving and addition of bypass tubes. A 3.0 will do the same thing a 2.5 can but will do it longer before shock fade sets in. The 3” has more tuning potential (more room to add bypass tubes), but you’ll likely never use it because the 2.5” with good valving is plenty for what most people do with these trucks. Same with the finned reservoirs, most people will never see the benefit of those things until they’re doing 120mph down Zoo Road in San Felipe, but they do look cool.

Can’t wait to get my 2.5s in, Bilsteins are lame.
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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by Colibri » Wed May 30, 2018 2:05 pm

2.5’s are a great option. A 2.5 can ride just as plush as a 3.0, and a 2.5 can have just as much bottoming resistance as a 3.0, it just can’t do both at the same time as well as the bigger shock. A 3.0 can ride plush but still have more bottoming resistance than a smaller shock that is tuned to ride as comfortably and it can do it longer before fading. Whether or not that’s worth the extra money is entirely subjective.
Central Texas and Houston area
2009 5.7 auto quadcab
Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
Custom tube bumpers and white knuckle sliders
Creative fab trussed axle. rem polished and cryoed 5.13 gears with arb lockers fr/rr
Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
Lots of other stuff lol

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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by RPS1030 » Wed May 30, 2018 3:35 pm

I went with "doing it one more time is less than two more times" theory. :cash: :fingerscrossed:

Stocks got really soft at about 40k

Did Thuren 1/2" front lift springs and rear springs with the Overland white body shocks. OK, better than worn out stockers, but getting to be meh. At least they can sit on the shelf for parttime duties if/when revalving/rebuilding the Kings.
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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by adeluca73 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:54 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 10:12 am
I have 2.5's and don't feel like I need more shock. Would I have bought 3.0s if they had been available at the time? Maybe for the right price but Don had to talk me into the 2.5s to start with. The truck rides great and the bigger the tires the better it gets. Not everyone needs race shocks and there is a point of diminishing returns.
I went back-n-forth with Marcus on this for a week or so. I was committed to 3.0’s, but when I saw the $ difference, I just could not reconcile the # of miles I drive the truck/yr (probably less than 60 total days/yr) and the increased cost of 3.0’s when added to the already high cost of the entire kit. If I drove it all the time, lived out West, and was 10yrs younger, the 3.0s would be a no-brainer.
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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by BoldAdventure » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:15 am

adeluca73 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:54 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 10:12 am
I have 2.5's and don't feel like I need more shock. Would I have bought 3.0s if they had been available at the time? Maybe for the right price but Don had to talk me into the 2.5s to start with. The truck rides great and the bigger the tires the better it gets. Not everyone needs race shocks and there is a point of diminishing returns.
I went back-n-forth with Marcus on this for a week or so. I was committed to 3.0’s, but when I saw the $ difference, I just could not reconcile the # of miles I drive the truck/yr (probably less than 60 total days/yr) and the increased cost of 3.0’s when added to the already high cost of the entire kit. If I drove it all the time, lived out West, and was 10yrs younger, the 3.0s would be a no-brainer.
I dunno why, but I was ordering at the time when the 3.0's were bought, and I was told "You don't really need the 3.0's. You'll be fine with the 2.5's." I put on average 24k on my truck a year. Lots and lots of miles. The 2.5's have been fantastic. It's like a whole new truck, especially on the pavement and the truck is much more enjoyable off pavement.

If anything, Kings have been the singular best investment in my vehicle to date. With the boogie bumps being the second, followed by 37's and rock sliders.

:cheers:
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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by adeluca73 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:38 am

BoldAdventure wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:15 am
adeluca73 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:54 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 10:12 am
I have 2.5's and don't feel like I need more shock. Would I have bought 3.0s if they had been available at the time? Maybe for the right price but Don had to talk me into the 2.5s to start with. The truck rides great and the bigger the tires the better it gets. Not everyone needs race shocks and there is a point of diminishing returns.
I went back-n-forth with Marcus on this for a week or so. I was committed to 3.0’s, but when I saw the $ difference, I just could not reconcile the # of miles I drive the truck/yr (probably less than 60 total days/yr) and the increased cost of 3.0’s when added to the already high cost of the entire kit. If I drove it all the time, lived out West, and was 10yrs younger, the 3.0s would be a no-brainer.
I dunno why, but I was ordering at the time when the 3.0's were bought, and I was told "You don't really need the 3.0's. You'll be fine with the 2.5's." I put on average 24k on my truck a year. Lots and lots of miles. The 2.5's have been fantastic. It's like a whole new truck, especially on the pavement and the truck is much more enjoyable off pavement.

If anything, Kings have been the singular best investment in my vehicle to date. With the boogie bumps being the second, followed by 37's and rock sliders.

:cheers:
Mike---I am installing mine this weekend and next. it's good to hear your feedback, you've put all of these changes through its paces about as much as any single person on this site, aside from a handful of other guys with some of the "less-gen" older trucks. I agree with your list of improvements. I am hoping the new springs and trackbar make a significant difference too. But, I would add to that list the locker by-pass, that thing really makes me happy when I can use the factory knob to work my lockers in any manner I choose. It retained near 100% stock functionality minus the actual engagement sensor blinking deal.
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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by BoldAdventure » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:55 am

adeluca73 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:38 am

Mike---I am installing mine this weekend and next. it's good to hear your feedback, you've put all of these changes through its paces about as much as any single person on this site, aside from a handful of other guys with some of the "less-gen" older trucks. I agree with your list of improvements. I am hoping the new springs and trackbar make a significant difference too. But, I would add to that list the locker by-pass, that thing really makes me happy when I can use the factory knob to work my lockers in any manner I choose. It retained near 100% stock functionality minus the actual engagement sensor blinking deal.
Thanks, :cheers:

I forgot about the lockers. Hardwiring my lockers would be second only to the Kings. Thuren's whole package there, the trackbar, the coils and the Kings have been fantastic. Really, it's like a whole new truck. I went back and forth for a long time on making the investment. The hype is REAL! I know you're going to be really happy with the end results.

About 3 different people who rode in my truck at this years PWIM all went and bought Kings, kinda funny.
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Re: 2.5s versus 3" Kings

Post by Bigdodge » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:14 pm

It really is worth it. I was worried about going stage 3 with mine. Didn't want a log wagon, I have one like that. Wish I would have gone 4 now. This is the first time "it rides better than stock" is factually accurate.

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