Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

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Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by Chubbs » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:45 pm

I think I am adding Air Lift bags and Daystar cradles this spring. I am assuming they they limit uptravel. For folks that off-road, how noticeable has the loss of articulation been?
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by olyelr » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:20 am

Its not horrible. But I have no actual numbers to go by. Wish I would have pulled the cools and took measurements with the stock bumps and then the bags.

But hey, thats what you can do for us when you do the install! Then post up the results here... viewtopic.php?f=45&t=4732
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by Oilbrnr » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:40 am

I think it depends on which ones you get. I was worried somewhat about a hit to articulation myself, so I went without the ones with the internal bumps. I don't think there is much if any total upward loss. Remember, you're loosing the stock bumps and cast spacer blocks.

Now, that said, you'd better have some good rear shocks that you won't blow through too easy on high speed maneuvers or you'll loose your fillings.

What is the plan for the truck that makes you need them? Might help me give you a better idea.
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by Chubbs » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:06 am

Mainly for towing a travel trailer (7-8K) and hauling firewood. I typically have a pretty big generator in the bed while pulling the camper.

It actually does pretty well towing, but I can induce a decent squat loading up the bed.
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by Oilbrnr » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:55 am

Off-road use? What part of the country?

If you're not building the rest of the suspension and really do above average stuff on the trails, get the ones with the internal stops. You'll be fine.

My truck is 9,260# and I run 35-40 lbs of air in the bags to bring it level with the Thuren front springs. Having bags gives you a lot of load flexibility.

Might want to think about putting a compressor on board at the same time, especially if you air down your tires much.
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by Chubbs » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:00 pm

We live where the Mojave meets the Sierra Nevadas. I have the truck off-road every week-end. Most is light to medium-duty stuff exploring with the family, but rocky terrain and washouts are a given. We are regularly in the El Paso, Coso, Panamint, and Sierra Nevada mountains. Trails can get tight with the size of the PW and the flex really adds to confidence negotiating through the rocks. Winter usually means we are playing in the snow, however, the white stuff has been lacking this winter.

I've always got a Viair with us. We air down frequently. For better speed airing-up I am thinking of trying to stuff an ARB twin under the hood.
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by Oilbrnr » Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:59 pm

I hear you on the flex. Might see if you can get an answer directly out of AirLift on just how much it would limit compression. I don't think at the end of the day you'd notice it though. If you find they are a problem, I'll trade you mine!

Good luck in putting the Twin up front. As you know it's tight under there.

I'm putting a Extreme Air Endura on the rear frame rail ahead of where the spare tire would be. (mine is on a swing) Continuous duty and submersible. Not quite as high a CFM, but I'm never in a rush to air up anyway. Remote mounting the air intake/filter under the hood.
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by Oilbrnr » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:55 pm

So I stopped at a place near my house to take some shots tonight, thought it might help. This is with 40psi in the bags. I thought I took a pic of the DS rear in compression, but I got a phone call right about that same time. Must have spaced it. Sad times.
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by Oilbrnr » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:58 pm

second
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by Oilbrnr » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:00 pm

Rear.
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by Oilbrnr » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:02 pm

Rear 2
The attachment IMG_4406.jpg is no longer available
IMG_4407.jpg
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by Oilbrnr » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:05 pm

So painful. (I don't feel like re-sizing these)
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by DamageWagon » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:25 pm

If your trailer is really only about 8k, and you aren’t using a weight distributing hitch, I would go with the WD first. I know several guys with power wagons, either stock or with softer thuren rear coils, that use WD exclusively with campers that weight or more, that do not need air bags. I generally recommend avoiding air bags unless they’re needed. They do improve stability by widening the spring spacing in the rear, however they also harm travel and bump compliance.

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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by Oilbrnr » Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:18 pm

Marcus, have you measured what the compressed difference is with an empty bag and Daystars vs. the OEM snubber and cast iron spacer?
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by DamageWagon » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:47 pm

I don’t remember the number, I believe it was about an inch less travel. You usually will have even less than that due to the rapid spring rate increase of bags as you compress them unless you have them fully collapsed at ride height.

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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by olyelr » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:05 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:47 pm
I don’t remember the number, I believe it was about an inch less travel. You usually will have even less than that due to the rapid spring rate increase of bags as you compress them unless you have them fully collapsed at ride height.
This is true. I run my bags at 0 psi most of the time, as they are the ones with the internal bumpstop (there is no minimal air pressure requirements). However, even at 0 psi (at normal ride height), when the bags start compressing from suspension compression, they essentially start building air pressure. I suppose this is a good thing for the bags/bumps, although the valve stems could be pulled to prevent this (which I suppose could gain a bit more compression).
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by TankerZak » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:12 pm

olyelr wrote:
DamageWagon wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:47 pm
I don’t remember the number, I believe it was about an inch less travel. You usually will have even less than that due to the rapid spring rate increase of bags as you compress them unless you have them fully collapsed at ride height.
This is true. I run my bags at 0 psi most of the time, as they are the ones with the internal bumpstop (there is no minimal air pressure requirements). However, even at 0 psi (at normal ride height), when the bags start compressing from suspension compression, they essentially start building air pressure. I suppose this is a good thing for the bags/bumps, although the valve stems could be pulled to prevent this (which I suppose could gain a bit more compression).
So you don't hit the jounces? Because the jounces are at the same length (or nearly) as the bump stop + 1 inch spacer waa.

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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by olyelr » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:55 pm

TankerZak wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:12 pm
olyelr wrote:
DamageWagon wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:47 pm
I don’t remember the number, I believe it was about an inch less travel. You usually will have even less than that due to the rapid spring rate increase of bags as you compress them unless you have them fully collapsed at ride height.
This is true. I run my bags at 0 psi most of the time, as they are the ones with the internal bumpstop (there is no minimal air pressure requirements). However, even at 0 psi (at normal ride height), when the bags start compressing from suspension compression, they essentially start building air pressure. I suppose this is a good thing for the bags/bumps, although the valve stems could be pulled to prevent this (which I suppose could gain a bit more compression).
So you don't hit the jounces? Because the jounces are at the same length (or nearly) as the bump stop + 1 inch spacer waa.

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I honestly have no clue. Never done any real world testing.

I am willing to remove my coils for some testing if anyone really cares. Could set the truck down on the bags with no air in them, and then try it with the valve stems removed for a true “no air” comparison.

Would be nice to snag measurements with the stock bumps and no coils to really determine how close the bags/cradles really are to the stock setup. But Im not switching them back out...someone with stock setup would have to do that!
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by RPS1030 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:21 pm

0 psi definitely ramps up the spring rate. Pulled the bags/cradles for a little bit earlier this month. Usually have normal squat (back to level) with bags and 0 psi with the buggy hauler and Jeep. No bags led to a noticeable amount of more squat. 20 psi was too much pressure last time I tried that.

New travel trailer seems to have less tongue weight. Only 15 psi was plenty to bring it home. Kept them at 0 psi when setting up the WDH.

Would be nice to have a little more load capacity with straight coils and boogie bumps, but there's zero chance I'm going to setup the WDH on the flatbed.

How bad are the stock rear springs with Thuren 2.5 rears?

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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by richxd87 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:46 pm

Here are a couple pictures with measurements I got when checking for clearance on my flatbed build. On the DS i let purged air out of the bags as the bags were compressing so it should be pretty close to zero psi.
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by TankerZak » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:48 pm

richxd87 wrote:Here are a couple pictures with measurements I got when checking for clearance on my flatbed build. On the DS i let purged air out of the bags as the bags were compressing so it should be pretty close to zero psi.
Hey... it'll be better if you take that 1 inch spacer out. No need for it to be there...

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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by Chubbs » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:25 am

richxd87 wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:46 pm
Here are a couple pictures with measurements I got when checking for clearance on my flatbed build. On the DS i let purged air out of the bags as the bags were compressing so it should be pretty close to zero psi.
Thanks for the pictures. I am hearing more and more that the spacer isn't needed.
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by TankerZak » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:55 am

Chubbs wrote:
richxd87 wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:46 pm
Here are a couple pictures with measurements I got when checking for clearance on my flatbed build. On the DS i let purged air out of the bags as the bags were compressing so it should be pretty close to zero psi.
Thanks for the pictures. I am hearing more and more that the spacer isn't needed.
If you go look at the install thread (one of them) we really go over that spacer in detail and try both. And at the end of the day we all agreed spacer was bad. It eats up travel and doesn't help for inflation either and the bump effect is still in the right place for the geometry of the suspension.

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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by richxd87 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:43 pm

Yea, I tried it without the spacer but the bag then required more pressure for the lift/support I wanted to achieve. I may remove it after I install the Thuren shackles and king shocks. (this is to support ~1600lb slide in Hallmark Camper)

My thought was to get the level with the lowest psi for a smoother ride. right? wrong?

Does anyone know if the Airlift 7500 bags fit the daystar cradles?

I also modified the Airlift brackets to better support the cradle.
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Re: Air Lift Bags and Uptravel

Post by TankerZak » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:53 pm

richxd87 wrote:Yea, I tried it without the spacer but the bag then required more pressure for the lift/support I wanted to achieve. I may remove it after I install the Thuren shackles and king shocks. (this is to support ~1600lb slide in Hallmark Camper)

My thought was to get the level with the lowest psi for a smoother ride. right? wrong?

Does anyone know if the Airlift 7500 bags fit the daystar cradles?

I also modified the Airlift brackets to better support the cradle.
I drilled and taped the bump pad for cradle installation. No bottom bracketry. I'm not sure the PSI difference would be significant enough to give up an inch of travel with the spacer in. I still only need about 20 PSI in the bags to tow my RV but it's a much different use-case than a camper especially offroading with a camper. I'd be trying to do as little as I could with airbags to offroad with a camper. Maybe different leafs? Idk...

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