ZR2 diesel test drive & test tow

[DamageWagon]

Think you have it backwards. 40's are the new 31's. wonder what it would take to put 40's on that cheby?

A new drivetrain?

[RustyPW]

Think you have it backwards. 40's are the new 31's. wonder what it would take to put 40's on that cheby?

A new drivetrain?

[TwinStick]

Apparently, you can lock the rear diff in 2wd but only if it is in "off-road mode". Also, front will only engage in 4Lo & also only if the rear diff is locked first. No 2wd Lo though. I will learn more about this after delivery. The rear locker will not engage unless under 20 mph in "off-road mode", but once locked, you can go over 20 mph with it locked. Personally, 2Lo would be more useful to me.

Another thing i like is that many things on the ZR2 are so much less expensive than the PW. ZR2 rear leaf springs are $136 each. Thinking about a set, to dismantle & add a leaf or 2 to help with towing. Maybe not even needed, time will tell. PW leafs squatted after a while so thinking these might too ??? Tires are at least $40 cheaper....and up to almost a $100 cheaper per tire. This little diesel just seems to check more box's than the 4Runner towing, or our PW towing. Still has the benefit of lockers F&R. A winch would be nice but can be added later if need be. By being able to get 15-19 mpg towing & 20-30 mpg empty is just icing on the cake. It will allow us to travel more & spend less.

I get the whole full size vs mid size debate. We are retired now, kids are gone, so don't really care too much if people are comfortable in the back.....even though I have the same knee room as the rear seat in the PW. I really never thought i would get rid of our PW. It just tows & drives empty with SO MUCH LESS DRAMA than the wagon. It is also coming up on needing some major repairs. Thats what started us looking elsewhere.

The whole diesel thing is kind of a PITA, of that there is no doubt. A little harder to find fuel, then there is the DEF fluid, then there is the treatment for the fuel & then there is the winter treatment for the fuel. Luckily, we have 2 major truck stops by us that sell everything needed. Been reading that people who use the stuff made by "HOT SHOT'S" have all but eliminated their idiot lights coming on & DPF issues. I certainly am not hatin' on PW's. Still love em. Always will.

[Retired BLM Rig]

It is also coming up on needing some major repairs. Thats what started us looking elsewhere.

What kind of major repairs could you possibly need at 30K, spark plugs?

[Reloaderguy]

It is also coming up on needing some major repairs. Thats what started us looking elsewhere.

What kind of major repairs could you possibly need at 30K, spark plugs?

Hair plugs.

[Bill2014]

We have to remember that the ZR2 towing comparison was made to the manual 2008 PW with the 5.7 and not the newer 6.4...
I noticed quite a bit of difference in towing ability between my '13 and '14

[RustyPW]

It is also coming up on needing some major repairs. Thats what started us looking elsewhere.

What kind of major repairs could you possibly need at 30K, spark plugs?

Hair plugs.

[olyelr]

We have to remember that the ZR2 towing comparison was made to the manual 2008 PW with the 5.7 and not the newer 6.4...
I noticed quite a bit of difference in towing ability between my '13 and '14

An auto 6.4... tow better than twinsticks twinstick 5.7?! Pfffffffffffffffffff.

[TwinStick]

It is also coming up on needing some major repairs. Thats what started us looking elsewhere.

What kind of major repairs could you possibly need at 30K, spark plugs?

Steering gearbox upgrade, t-style tie rod upgrade, corresponding steering brace upgrade, shocks, tires, etc....etc.... . We all know every single vehicle has its issues. Just tired of dealing with them.

Hope the new one doesn't have as many as our PW. As I said before, I am not a hater, just tired of the issues. I LOVE how no one else ever talks about Dodge being bold & "grabbing life by the horns" & re-introducing the PW is what set the stage for the Raptor & ZR2. From a marketing standpoint, it was the smart move. Instead of competing head to head with the PW, the competition chose to each be in their own niche. Full size truck that works & plays, full size go fast, small mid sized work, play & go fast-ish. By doing that, they can each claim they have "the only truck in its class" that can do x, y or z & claim "class superiority".

Finding a vehicle that is smaller but tows better, squats less under load with no helper springs than the PW W/1 ton helpers, gets more than double the mpg towing or empty, has lockers front & rear & rides 10x better empty or towing, sounds like a win/win to us. Just sayin' . Your needs may vary. Haters gonna hate!

[Bill2014]

I understand!

Buddy, we'll still come pull you out when you get the toy stuck!

[DamageWagon]

Yeah man I totally get wanting something that just WORKS. I ran the math once, I made sure I never wrote down how much money I have in repairs in the ‘11. I do know I’m over $5000 into the front axle now

I hope the Chevy is reliable, isn’t it nuts how good modern diesels are???

[Reloaderguy]

"Tows better"

[TwinStick]

Yes, it really does tow much better. Much less drama. Reason being: the abundance of torque from idle. Because all the torque is available right from idle, there is no engine screaming as you roll through the gears, also meaning that there is no "transmission hunting for the right gear" as there is with most gas autos while towing. People with it tuned are actually able to have more hp & more torque AND increasing fuel economy by 1-4 mpg Both empty & towing. It locks the torque converter into 6th and lowers engine by 500 rpm even while towing. Stock-towing-& 6th gear usually don't happen unless on flat ground & wind at your back. Any mods are gonna have to wait until warranty expires for us. Tow/haul mode in the ZR2 diesel engages the exhaust brake, locks out 6th & lets it hold gears longer before shifting. I only used 6th on down hills anyways in the PW while towing. 5th is 1:1. Having the torque avail from idle in the diesel is what lets them be able to use 6th while towing after the tune. Torque in my truck was good at 3000 rpms but really came on after 5000 rpms.

I hope it is reliable as well. This is a huge decision for us. Going from 3 vehicles down to 2 means no standby to tow with if it is in the shop for some bullshit. I would have lost money on that bet, for sure. Never in my life would i think a mid-sized 4 cyl anything would tow better than a fullsize w/V-8 & 6-speed manual. Crazy how it would spin the rear tires with the camper on during our test tow. It was wet out but still, crazy.

I hope with some regular preventative maintenance, it will be a reliable long lasting vehicle. Found 1 guy that has one with 164,000 miles on it. That's encouraging. Some things will be the same as with any diesel with variable vanes in the turbo. Cleaning every couple of years or so, along with the EGR. The EGR looks like it could be a PITA though. All separate rubber gaskets/o-rings. Maybe a couple of dots of RTV before gaskets & let dry before install, idk. Time will tell i guess.

[Bill2014]

"Tows better"

Of course it tows better! It has a whopping 191 Hp

Or is it 186 Hp?

[Reloaderguy]

"Tows better"

Of course it tows better! It has a whopping 191 Hp

Let's see how that works out in the wind on the interstate.

[RustyPW]

What's the redline on that little smoker? 3,000 rpm max? It's screaming at that rpm. That's where the Hemi starts to make torque.

Pulling the turbo off to clean the vanes. Good luck with that one.

Spinning the rear tires with the camper on the back. There's no weight back there. Just want until a semi passes you at 70 mph.

Hope you never get a bad jug of DEF fluid. Could be costly. It freezes at 12F. Don't ask me how I know.

With diesel. You better add a winter additive to it to keep it from jelling. Don't ask me on how I know.

[TwinStick]

Actually, it is 181 hp @ 3400 rpms.

Already did that. It was VERY windy the day we took the camper out with the ZR2. It had no issues towing into the wind. Transmission was not hunting at all because of all the torque down low. Even felt fine at 80 mph. Had no issue getting up to 80 mph towing camper either. Living close to the interstate helped out that day. Torque is avail from idle to 3500 rpms on the 2.8L Duramax.

On my Hemi, hp peak is at 5600 rpms & torque peak is at 4400 rpms. So, as you can see it really only has about a 1200 rpm sweet spot. Both hp & torque falls off sharply after 5600 rpms. It is the manual transmission (meaning: its gear ratio's) & the 4.56's that made it a good tow vehicle. Being able to hold it in any gear also helped. But now, the auto transmissions can do that i think.

With the ZR2's 6L50 trans, just put the lever in L, & tap the button to pick the highest gear (1-5) you want to use, & then it auto shifts but stops in that gear. Or you can shift the auto trans manually with the button on the shifter. Yes it does stay in gear. Tried that out with our salesman in the test truck. It stayed in 1st till red-lined & did not upshift. Cool ! Our Toyota 4Runner has that feature as well but will NOT stay in the gear you selected if it red-lines, it will upshift. Another "save us from ourselves nanny" I suppose.

I know, it still boggles my mind too. It's like a mind trick. It shouldn't work as good as my full sized truck. But it does. We camped next to a guy in the New England states that had a reg Z71 CC LB w/the 2.8L diesel. He was towing a 27' Prowler with his. It looked way to big for the truck. He said it towed it just fine, towed at 65 mph & got 15 mpg towing 7000 lbs & got 28-32 empty !!! That is what got us looking into them in the first place. He had 43k on his & said the only time it went to dealer was for the typical new vehicle stuff like electronic re-flashes & upgrades & 1 recall item.

[RustyPW]

So.....when are you picking it up?

[TwinStick]

Yup, I know Rusty. All the typical diesel stuff. I have also had gas go bad once. Lots of people get water in their gas when tanks leak. That also destroys an engine. Last year I think, maybe longer, there was a gas station on the Reservation in Niagara County where 34-54 people had engines seize or blow up because of water in the fuel. Tac goes up to 5K. I don't think it actually will though, not sure. Wasn't looking at the tac when i red-lined in 1st. It hit the govenor.

Like i said, already been on I-90 with it in tow. No issues passing or being passed. A rocket-ship it ain't. Look in your mirrors, pull out & pass. Easy peasy.


Supposed to be delivered in the 1st 1/2 of January. It actually don't look that bad to work on. But i am sure there will be many "WTF did they do that" moments when working on it.

[Bill2014]

I wonder why the manufacturer only rates it at 5000 pounds towing?

Hmmm that's less than half what my PW is rated to tow. And Much less than the 12,470 lbs that the 6.4 is rated to tow in a standard crew 2500.

Just doesn't add up. Sure my CTD tows the same load easier and at lower rpm than my Power Wagon - But the loaded Power Wagon is still faster off the light! - and that's compared to the REAL CTD not the baby!

Don't be that guy holding up traffic when the light turns green... Watching the loaded tractor trailers next to you burn you at the light... and all the cars behind you pulling behind the tractor trailer because he's faaster...

It's not too late.......

[Reloaderguy]

I wonder why the manufacturer only rates it at 5000 pounds towing?

Hmmm that's less than half what my PW is rated to tow. And Much less than the 12,470 lbs that the 6.4 is rated to tow in a standard crew 2500.

Just doesn't add up. Sure my CTD tows the same load easier and at lower rpm than my Power Wagon - But the loaded Power Wagon is still faster off the light! - and that's compared to the REAL CTD not the baby!

Don't be that guy holding up traffic when the light turns green... Watching the loaded tractor trailers next to you burn you at the light... and all the cars behind you pulling behind the tractor trailer because he's faaster...

It's not too late.......

I don't want to harsh the man's new ride. As an offroad toy they look super cool and have tons going for them. GM did some stuff really right on the platform and if you're a Mod junkie they look like an unpainted canvas. However, as a tow rig they're still a compact truck and I just don't see how the small chassis is going to ever handle weight as well as a 3/4 ton truck. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Now, how about those long travel arms and 35's?

[Bill2014]

Perhaps that came across harsh - I just see so many leave the PW platform and then come back.

With a smaller camper - it may all work out fine...

But it's still not too late...

*hugs* all around!

[Mule007]

I agree I but they obviously did their homework weighed their needs, know the trade offs, and made their best choice, good luck w the newZR2, Enjoy & keep us posted

[TwinStick]

Hey, thats ok. I don't need permission You will most definitely beat me at the light. I simply do not care about that. What i do care about now is: how well will it tow our camper & mpg & longevity. It checked all the box's. Shame on Ram IMHO. They finally lost me as a customer. There is simply no reason anymore to NOT offer a small diesel in the Power Wagons . If it fits in a midsized truck like the Colorado, no reason they couldn't put a 4L diesel in the Wagons, making 450-500 ft lbs of torque. There are diesel ZR2 guys that have a 10k winch and a trans cooler along with the stock intercooler. If someone offered you a Power Wagon that got 16 mpg towing & 24+ mpg on the hwy, wouldn't you buy it ? I know I would have. And, anybody who has really towed at the PW's limit (old or new gens) like I have, knows it is NOT an enjoyable experience. It was only possible with mine because of the 6-speed manual & 4 leaf 1-ton helper springs. I have measured my PW's squat with current camper (w/o the helpers or w/d hitch on) & it squats below level a fair bit more than the Colorado. Colorado was 1/2" above level with camper on. Maybe the leaf springs on the Wagon are plum wore out from towing at 10,500 lbs for 8+ years, idk. Maybe the Colorado will squat the same or more when a cap is on & more weight is in the bed, idk. But that is an easy fix anyways. Still have the helper springs from our 2000 Dakota & they will fit, checked that while we had the truck for 2 days. How many people actually get the luxury to take their "prospective" next truck home, hook up their camper & go for an all day drive with it, climb hills & hit the Interstate to make sure it is gonna work like they want ? Well, I did & it does work well. So, i am not going in blind. If I had been able to do that with all of the 4 trucks we have bought new, I would have only bought 2 out of the 4 again (88' Ranger & the 08' PW.) It is sad how the big auto makers go in spurts. They will come out with something great, that really works good, then stand and beat their chests for decades, instead of continuing to innovate, they stagnate. It ended up costing $1k less, than the PW we bought in 2008. Crazy right ? $43k for a mid sized truck. Whod'a ever thought ?

[Retired BLM Rig]

Twinstick, if you still have your OE alternator, you should reinstall it and sell your 270 in the classified section. The dealer won't give you any better trade-in value for it. If that's too much work, just sell your OE unit, I bet someone might be interested in it.

I could be interested in the 270, depending on your asking price.