Trackhawk

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Re: Trackhawk

Post by Reloaderguy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:02 am

PWJouster wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:53 am
X5-6M are great cars...and tuned....get out of here

the real value is the fact that the trackhawks value should be 88k no more...
I disagree. The real value of the Hellcat series of vehicles is the factory warranty on the 707HP feature. That's 30k miles of 1/4 mile launches and smokey burnouts backed by the factory. The Chargers, Challengers, and GC's are generally pretty low quality compared to an M5, M6, or X5/6M. The inside of the HC is approximately the same quality as my Laramie PW, which is to say not all that great. A $55k HC is a hell of a value considering it comes with a $30K engine and transmission. For $85k+ I can buy a GT350 with 3L whipple ( or Corvette/Camaro with a Pro Charger) and make the HC look stupid (no warranty though). The upper price tiers of the HC/TH lack real value. I also don't see the value of the Demon outside of the collectors resale and warranty either.

Perhaps I'm jaded but 700hp isn't impressive anymore, that's junkyard LS and Ebay turbo territory.
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by 04Ram2500Hemi » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:30 am

Reloaderguy wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:02 am
PWJouster wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:53 am
X5-6M are great cars...and tuned....get out of here

the real value is the fact that the trackhawks value should be 88k no more...
I disagree. The real value of the Hellcat series of vehicles is the factory warranty on the 707HP feature. That's 30k miles of 1/4 mile launches and smokey burnouts backed by the factory. The Chargers, Challengers, and GC's are generally pretty low quality compared to an M5, M6, or X5/6M. The inside of the HC is approximately the same quality as my Laramie PW, which is to say not all that great. A $55k HC is a hell of a value considering it comes with a $30K engine and transmission. For $85k+ I can buy a GT350 with 3L whipple ( or Corvette/Camaro with a Pro Charger) and make the HC look stupid (no warranty though). The upper price tiers of the HC/TH lack real value. I also don't see the value of the Demon outside of the collectors resale and warranty either.

Perhaps I'm jaded but 700hp isn't impressive anymore, that's junkyard LS and Ebay turbo territory.
I'm honestly very happy with the quality of the interior on my 2016 Challenger Hellcat. It's a big step ahead of the interior on my 2012 Power Wagon. I agree the interior on 2013 and up Power Wagon's are much nicer, and honestly I'd be very happy with that interior in my truck as well. The true value like you say is the full factory warranty on the Hellcat.

707hp isn't impressive? From a launch I'll admit keeping the tires from smoking on my car is a bit of a challenge, but when you're sitting at 60mph plus and you punch the skinny peddle on the right, 707hp is damn impressive. I'm not sure what you're driving that would make 707hp just ok...
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by Reloaderguy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:09 pm

Sometimes we let our emotions prevent us from comprehending written english. I try not to wrap my ego around the things I own.

No, 700hp isn't impressive from a raw HP standpoint anymore. What is impressive is the warranty on the 700hp. The HC will easily hold 1K HP when you're ready to start modding it which is why FCA is willing to offer a 30K mile warranty.
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by 04Ram2500Hemi » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:38 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:09 pm
Sometimes we let our emotions prevent us from comprehending written english. I try not to wrap my ego around the things I own.
I'm not even sure what this statement means, and I'm not sure where ego comes into play.

My opinion was simply that for $55,000 or so the 707hp Hellcat is one heck of a car, especially when it comes with a 3 Year/36,000 Mile Bumper to Bumper and 60,000 Mile Drivetrain Warranty. The Challenger/Charger/JGC will never have the nicest interiors compared to higher priced vehicles, but I don't think they are anything to be embarrassed or disappointed by.
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by PWJouster » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:20 am

04Ram2500Hemi wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:38 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:09 pm
Sometimes we let our emotions prevent us from comprehending written english. I try not to wrap my ego around the things I own.
I'm not even sure what this statement means, and I'm not sure where ego comes into play.

My opinion was simply that for $55,000 or so the 707hp Hellcat is one heck of a car, especially when it comes with a 3 Year/36,000 Mile Bumper to Bumper and 60,000 Mile Drivetrain Warranty. The Challenger/Charger/JGC will never have the nicest interiors compared to higher priced vehicles, but I don't think they are anything to be embarrassed or disappointed by.
i loved my HC charger and it certainly is my second favorite car to date, but, new in 2016 i paid just over $80 OTD...
and it certainly didnt come close interior wise to the loaded ~$85K BMW x5 50i Msport or 13' S6, both of which i tuned and outhandled the HC.

but 800+ hp to the rear wheels with easy modification and second hand purchase of $40k can not be beat...sorry Corvettes camaros mustangs, youll always suck

any V8 TT or V8 supercharged engine in recent years has put out ridiculous numbers even to the rear wheels in some applications. that is plenty of power for the road forever.

tune any of those vehicles and its a crapshoot for who can be fastest in each category
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:31 am

The HC is 4500lb. You don't need 800hp to run an HC. Regular HCs dyno around 650hp at the wheels at sea level. A 2018 Mustang GT with a Roush blower makes close to the same with a warranty and 700lb less weight. The mustang will actually turn too.
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by 04Ram2500Hemi » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:41 am

The Hellcat (Challenger or Charger) is a heavy bitch for sure, and I agree you notice it in the corners. The Widebody Challenger seems to help, but it still will never corner like a Mustang or Camaro.

I agree that if I paid $80,000 I'd expect a better interior. However, I picked up a leftover 2016 Challenger in October of last year for $16,000 off sticker price. Essentially for $55,000 there wasn't much out there that could compete with the HP numbers of the Hellcat and come with a factory warranty. Hell, I've seen Challenger and Charger 392's (6.4L Hemi with 485hp) that cost more than what my Hellcat cost.

Is my HC as nice on the inside as other $70,000 vehicles? Probably Not. Will it perform the same as lighter vehicles with comparable HP numbers? Of course not. Is it fun as shit to drive? You bet your ass it is!
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:04 pm

That's a nice car and a great value for $55k. I'm not sure why it is but I always see HCs in stock at some random Dodge dealer half way between Missoula and Kalispell. I think at one point last year they had six or seven. It's in the middle of no where.
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by 04Ram2500Hemi » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:09 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:04 pm
That's a nice car and a great value for $55k. I'm not sure why it is but I always see HCs in stock at some random Dodge dealer half way between Missoula and Kalispell. I think at one point last year they had six or seven. It's in the middle of no where.
Ronan Dodge (Ronan Auto Mall I think) still has a 2016 Charger Hellcat that has never sold. At one point I think they had two Charger HC's and 2 Challenger HC's. They wouldn't even give me a rough idea on the cost of the 2016 Charger back in October when I found my Challenger unless I came into the office. Ronan would have been a lot better drive from Missoula than Fairfield, TX.
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:45 pm

That's the one. Sounds like the kind of place that wants 100% of sticker. No wonder they're always in stock.
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by adeluca73 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:50 am

04Ram2500Hemi wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:28 pm
Got a link to the $88,000 Demon? I’ve yet to see one selling for under $100,000
Nope, they're all a pre-sold order. They actually had 2, black and mango. Both were stickered for around $88K, the dealer wasn't gouging the buyers. But the owner of the black one was trying to use the dealer as the showroom so he could flip it on site w/o actually taking delivery first. Essentially selling the "right" to his pre-ordered demon. Shady people.
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by adeluca73 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:58 am

04Ram2500Hemi wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:38 am
olyelr wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:08 pm
04Ram2500Hemi wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:28 pm
Got a link to the $88,000 Demon? I’ve yet to see one selling for under $100,000
Isnt the MSRP under $90K? Are they selling for over MSRP?
Every Demon is selling well over MSPR. I've yet to see one under $100,000. I've seen them as high as $130,000. Take a look at Ebay and you'll see what I mean. They only plan on making a little over 3,000 of them, and after 2018 they are done.
3000 in US 300 in Canadian land. They are several on Ebay, and some hovering around the $105-$110K mark. the economics are favorable to buy a Demon now. According to the FCA builders site, Dodge is nearing 2/3 delivery of the Demon, meaning there's nearly 2000 delivered, built awaiting shipment, or in transit right now. The initial wave of people got theirs--the enthusiast motor head, the sly investor, or the more money than brains type. So, there's a bunch of titled with 0 road miles (considered 'used') Demons already forsale, and a few that have been raced a bunch, thrill is over, and time to sell while it's still relatively rare and under warranty. If you want one, I think the next 6-12mo will be a sweet spot to get one with min gouging.

Then once deliveries are 100% complete and as the initial deck of cars is shuffled and sold, the hard core are keeping theirs, the investors got rid of theirs, and the race dudes have heavily modded theirs, so I think the market might stabilize or even tick up in 2-3 yrs. But who really knows.
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by adeluca73 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:04 am

PWJouster wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:53 am
X5-6M are great cars...and tuned....get out of here

the real value is the fact that the trackhawks value should be 88k no more...
Jeeps hold CRAZY value, or so Koons told me when negotiating my wife's TrailHawk vs. an R/T Durango. They have several SRT Jeep GC's and they were all at or above $80K (it started in the low $60's just back in 2014 with this newest model), while the same equipped SRT Durango was $70K.

I liked the R/T Durango more than the V-8 TrailHawk (wife didn't)-- get his-- the exact same equipped Durango leased for $699/mo w/ $4-$5K down, while the V-8 TrailHawk fully loaded (except the rock rails) leased for $450/mo with $1500 down + 1st month. It's all in the residual value and how much YOU pay for the depreciation. Needless to say we got the Jeep for her. It's an exact match in color scheme to my PW too..... :D
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by 13powerwagon » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:09 am


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Re: Trackhawk

Post by adeluca73 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:15 am

Reloaderguy wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:02 am

I disagree. The real value of the Hellcat series of vehicles is the factory warranty on the 707HP feature. That's 30k miles of 1/4 mile launches and smokey burnouts backed by the factory. The Chargers, Challengers, and GC's are generally pretty low quality compared to an M5, M6, or X5/6M. The inside of the HC is approximately the same quality as my Laramie PW, which is to say not all that great. A $55k HC is a hell of a value considering it comes with a $30K engine and transmission. For $85k+ I can buy a GT350 with 3L whipple ( or Corvette/Camaro with a Pro Charger) and make the HC look stupid (no warranty though). The upper price tiers of the HC/TH lack real value. I also don't see the value of the Demon outside of the collectors resale and warranty either.

Perhaps I'm jaded but 700hp isn't impressive anymore, that's junkyard LS and Ebay turbo territory.
I think the interior in my HC is a step up from my PW, but I don't have a Laramie either. I'm in the process of selling my HC Challenger and leasing a HC Charger. Too good of deal on both cars to pass, and will be saving $200/mo in payments too. I mean look, the deal with the HC and any American "up branded" car is that their roots and common parts share those with the base model cars. But look hard, Audi and VW, Toyota and Lexus, Honda and Acura, Nissan and Infinity, GM and Caddy, Furd and Lincoln all do it. FCA just doesn't have a name brand luxury line, so sometimes people don't get why there's a near $50K gap between a HC and base Charger/Challenger.

Before I bought my HC, I drove a GT350 and a manual HC back-to-back at a luxury dealer in MD (had to do a credit check to test drive) and was not impressed at all. The interior was FUGLY...laughable really. It rode like T-U'rds. I'd never pay $60K+ for that car. I went in wanting to get the GT350 because of the exterior and engine sound, left with no doubts the HC was the nicer all around car and it wasn't close.
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by adeluca73 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:23 am

Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:04 pm
That's a nice car and a great value for $55k. I'm not sure why it is but I always see HCs in stock at some random Dodge dealer half way between Missoula and Kalispell. I think at one point last year they had six or seven. It's in the middle of no where.
Agree, I'd have a hard time paying the $74K sticker on my HC...that starts getting into Audi iS5/7 class (which I'd take over any M-BMW...side bar), but I bought my loaded HC from a collector in CA who was waiting on a Demon at the end of last summer with 1900 miles for under $55K.
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by PWJouster » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:45 am

adeluca73 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:04 am
PWJouster wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:53 am
X5-6M are great cars...and tuned....get out of here

the real value is the fact that the trackhawks value should be 88k no more...
Jeeps hold CRAZY value, or so Koons told me when negotiating my wife's TrailHawk vs. an R/T Durango. They have several SRT Jeep GC's and they were all at or above $80K (it started in the low $60's just back in 2014 with this newest model), while the same equipped SRT Durango was $70K.

I liked the R/T Durango more than the V-8 TrailHawk (wife didn't)-- get his-- the exact same equipped Durango leased for $699/mo w/ $4-$5K down, while the V-8 TrailHawk fully loaded (except the rock rails) leased for $450/mo with $1500 down + 1st month. It's all in the residual value and how much YOU pay for the depreciation. Needless to say we got the Jeep for her. It's an exact match in color scheme to my PW too..... :D

Wranglers hold crazy value, especially Rubicons of certain years where people paid 100% of initial sale price second hand years later and still do.

the comparison of the new durango vs cherokee is slightly off...go look at sales volume...and just look at how capable that trailhawk is...exast same equipped?look at those big brembos and RWD on the rt...prices make sense

~200k vs ~80k sales volume YOY......??? not in the same league.
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by adeluca73 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:15 am

PWJouster wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:45 am



Wranglers hold crazy value, especially Rubicons of certain years where people paid 100% of initial sale price second hand years later and still do.

the comparison of the new durango vs cherokee is slightly off...go look at sales volume...and just look at how capable that trailhawk is...exast same equipped?look at those big brembos and RWD on the rt...prices make sense

~200k vs ~80k sales volume YOY......??? not in the same league.
Dude, I'm talking about the added equipment packages. WTF seriously, no joke the GC has the skid group, the air suspension, the Quadra drive and trac II 4wd with low range, while the Durango has 3rd row seats, 2nd row Captains chairs and storage counsel, both with same appearance, safety, and tech options. Uh, the sticker on our loaded GC TrailHawk was over $52K, the sticker on the Durango R/T was just at $54K. My point, the lease on the GC was way more affordable because the residual value is so much better than the Durango, despite being nearly identically equipped and MSRP is very close together.

Also, the TrailHawk does NOT have Brembos, nor does the R/T. The SRTs in both and the TrackHawk have Brembos...

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Re: Trackhawk

Post by olyelr » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:59 am

PWJouster wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:45 am



Wranglers hold crazy value, especially Rubicons of certain years where people paid 100% of initial sale price second hand years later and still do.
Yes, Wrangler resale value is insanely good.

I bought my 2012 JK Rubicon for $36,XXX brand new from the dealer. Four years later (although only 24,000 miles), I traded it in on my Power Wagon. The dealer gave me $31,500 TRADE IN value.... that is just insane to me. I could not believe it. Not sure how much they sold it for because it was sold before it went on the lot.
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by PWJouster » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:28 pm

@adeluca73 i could have sworn i read somewhere that rts are getting a brembo option... guess i was incorrect. i knew the trail hawk did not, i was only saying how different they really are.

and i guess it goes to show you...people prefer capability over street performance
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by 04Ram2500Hemi » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:34 am

PWJouster wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:28 pm
and i guess it goes to show you...people prefer capability over street performance
This makes me wonder how the Rebel TRX will sell once it comes out? Rumors of a 7.0L with over 500hp and a 6.2L Hellcat with the 707hp are floating around the internet and different forums. I think it's going to be interesting to sit back and watch. I'm not sure I need 707hp in a truck, but 500hp sure would make turning bigger tires easier (I'm hoping the 7.0L finds its way into the Power Wagon).
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by PWJouster » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:17 pm

04Ram2500Hemi wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:34 am
PWJouster wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:28 pm
and i guess it goes to show you...people prefer capability over street performance
This makes me wonder how the Rebel TRX will sell once it comes out? Rumors of a 7.0L with over 500hp and a 6.2L Hellcat with the 707hp are floating around the internet and different forums. I think it's going to be interesting to sit back and watch. I'm not sure I need 707hp in a truck, but 500hp sure would make turning bigger tires easier (I'm hoping the 7.0L finds its way into the Power Wagon).

one of these ram super trucks better be based off a 2500 on coils...i wont buy a 1500 with a hellcat engine...even though im sure thats where they are going....all they are doing is providing people the R&D to upgrade the 1500 axle mounts and IFS...who would buy that thing and actually use it anyway...
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Re: Trackhawk

Post by 04Ram2500Hemi » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:34 am

PWJouster wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:17 pm
04Ram2500Hemi wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:34 am
PWJouster wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:28 pm
and i guess it goes to show you...people prefer capability over street performance
This makes me wonder how the Rebel TRX will sell once it comes out? Rumors of a 7.0L with over 500hp and a 6.2L Hellcat with the 707hp are floating around the internet and different forums. I think it's going to be interesting to sit back and watch. I'm not sure I need 707hp in a truck, but 500hp sure would make turning bigger tires easier (I'm hoping the 7.0L finds its way into the Power Wagon).

one of these ram super trucks better be based off a 2500 on coils...i wont buy a 1500 with a hellcat engine...even though im sure thats where they are going....all they are doing is providing people the R&D to upgrade the 1500 axle mounts and IFS...who would buy that thing and actually use it anyway...
This reminds me of my favorite Ford Raptor Jump Failure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DRi3_HcB74
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MSCH2112
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:45 pm
Model Year: 2012
Location: Reno, NV

Re: Trackhawk

Post by MSCH2112 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:15 pm

04Ram2500Hemi wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:34 am
PWJouster wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:17 pm
04Ram2500Hemi wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:34 am


This makes me wonder how the Rebel TRX will sell once it comes out? Rumors of a 7.0L with over 500hp and a 6.2L Hellcat with the 707hp are floating around the internet and different forums. I think it's going to be interesting to sit back and watch. I'm not sure I need 707hp in a truck, but 500hp sure would make turning bigger tires easier (I'm hoping the 7.0L finds its way into the Power Wagon).

one of these ram super trucks better be based off a 2500 on coils...i wont buy a 1500 with a hellcat engine...even though im sure thats where they are going....all they are doing is providing people the R&D to upgrade the 1500 axle mounts and IFS...who would buy that thing and actually use it anyway...
This reminds me of my favorite Ford Raptor Jump Failure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DRi3_HcB74
awesome jump failure! thanks for sharing.

mike
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