Need some math help here...........................

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TwinStick
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Need some math help here...........................

Post by TwinStick » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:30 pm

Just curious here, so bear with me. Trying to get some more distance from my snowblower. By increasing the engine shaft pulley diameter.

Impeller speed is now between 1010 & 1100 rpms.
Factory pulley looks to be about 2.5"-3" diameter. I want to increase it by 1".
How much more rpm's will a 1" increase give the impeller ?
Is 1" too much ?

It is just like on a dirt bike right ? To increase power but lower top speed, you go with a larger rear sprocket & a smaller front sprocket ?
To increase top speed, you go with a larger front sprocket & a smaller rear sprocket ?

Snowblower is an Ariens 36", 13 hp beast, but everything can be improved. Looking to try this before a V-twin swap.

Thanks for the help
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by Bill2014 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:22 pm

Circumference is Pi times diameter.
So your belt speed is directly proportional to your drive pulley diameter.
If your drive pulley goes from 2.5" diameter to 3.5" diameter, then your impeller speed will go from 1100 rpm to 1540 rpm.
If your drive pulley goes from 3" diameter to 4" diameter, then your impeller speed will go from 1100 rpm to 1467 rpm.

A 1" increase in diameter is a pretty big change. Perhaps you may want to try a drive pulley that is only 1/2" bigger in diameter. The stock design was probably already configured to be reasonable for the engine and impeller...
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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by TwinStick » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:07 pm

Thanks for that info, I appreciate it. So, if it is a V-pulley, I would measure from the bottom of the V, correct ?
Do they even make belts that are a 1/2" longer ?

If we never modified anything, it would be a boring world, lol. :lol:
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Bill2014
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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by Bill2014 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:34 pm

Increasing your drive pulley diameter by 1/2" will require a belt that's about 8/10th of an inch longer. So get one that's an inch longer and use the belt tensioning adjustment to take up the slack.
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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by TwinStick » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:09 pm

Cool. Thanks for the info Bill2014. :rockon:
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by TwinStick » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:12 pm

Bill2014 wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:22 pm
Circumference is Pi times diameter.
So your belt speed is directly proportional to your drive pulley diameter.
If your drive pulley goes from 2.5" diameter to 3.5" diameter, then your impeller speed will go from 1100 rpm to 1540 rpm.
If your drive pulley goes from 3" diameter to 4" diameter, then your impeller speed will go from 1100 rpm to 1467 rpm.

A 1" increase in diameter is a pretty big change. Perhaps you may want to try a drive pulley that is only 1/2" bigger in diameter. The stock design was probably already configured to be reasonable for the engine and impeller...

I am curious though how going from a 2.5" to a 3.5" will give me 1540 rpms but going from a 3" to a 4" will be less rpm increase, @ 1467 ?
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by olyelr » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:47 pm

Less percentage of increase.
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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by TwinStick » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:18 am

But both are 1" increase ?
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by olyelr » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:26 am

TwinStick wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:18 am
But both are 1" increase ?
But the 1” change is at different sizes, so it is a different percentage of change. 1” at the smaller pulleys is more drastic than 1” at the larger pulleys.

New pulley size divided by old pulley size multiplied by original impeller speed yields new impeller speed.
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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by 13BlkPowerWagon » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:52 am

Have you tried the impeller mod yet? You'll get more throw with that than you will from upping the impeller speed. Take some rubber pieces, and self tapping screws with some big washers, and screw the rubber pieces to the impeller so that they contact the housing very lightly. It'll give you a tighter seal between the impeller and the housing. It also effectively gives you a longer impeller, which gives you a higher velocity at the end of the impeller (same angular speed, but longer distance).

I put a 13hp Honda motor on my Husqvarna snowblower when the original engine threw the rod (actually, I bought it with the blown engine). It has a 1" crank, so I couldn't use the 3/4" shaft pulleys from the old engine. I had to step up in pulley diameter a bunch, and didn't really notice much better throw (compared to my previous blower), and was pretty disappointed. I did the impeller mod, and now it will throw snow 100' if I want (and if there's enough snow). The more snow there is, the farther it'll throw it, and the 28" width with 13hp doesn't ever bog down.

I still got sick of using it, and ended up putting a plow on the PW. They both have some benefits, and some drawbacks. I still use the blower for sidewalks and walkways, and my back patio where I can't get the plow, so having some extra nut behind it does make things easier.

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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by TwinStick » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:32 pm

The impellers on my Ariens are curved, so it would be difficult i think. Plus, the steel is very thick, compared to others I have seen. You aint gonna use self tappers on that i don't think ? I'd say I have 1/4" at least, all the way around, between the impellers & housing. I may try that first, idk. Definitely have to disassemble & separate the housing & totally remove the impeller to do it right. Maybe a summer job, lol.

Thanks for all the help everyone.
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by TwinStick » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:42 pm

Setting things up for a complete tear down come spring. Getting all my parts in a row, mudflaps cut, aluminum cut, oh, and belts................

If you guys need belts, this place ROCKS---for both price and fast shipping. Not sure how the fuck they do it, but I ordered my belts yesterday & they were on my porch this morning ????? FROM SOUTH DAKOTA !!!! :notworthy: I bought 9 Kevlar belts, for about $10-15 more than the dealer wanted for 2 !!! My auger drive takes 2 belts & traction drive takes 1. So I will be able to reassemble with all new belts & have enough for 2 more complete changes. :rockon: I also made a cool little tool that allows me to remove/change the auger drive belts without removing the bottom pan at all. Just a simple little spring extension for the brake arm. It releases it enough to remove belt but not enough to drop the spring---requiring bottom pan removal. :rockon:

http://www.vbeltsupply.com/
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by Reloaderguy » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:19 pm

What kind of Ariens?
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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by TwinStick » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:58 pm

The Big Boy---at the time i bought it.........ST1336DLE Pro.
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by TwinStick » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:13 pm

My reason for the mods are---when we get a bad winter I quickly run out of space for the snow. I move a LOT of snow. My driveway is right up to the side of my house, neighbors basement leaks like a sieve so he don't like me piling it up between our houses, snowblower is in the garage so....it all goes out to the road & we use the front yard & the parking space out front when kids come home. Driveway is about 6 Corolla's long & the snowplow, with wing plow ALWAYS GOES THE SAME WAY !!! :angry: So we can have banks so high, that I can't even see over them in the PW, while the other side of the road has 6" banks. So, when we get bad winters now, I share the snow with the other side of the street ! :lol: Someone has been calling the cops I think because the last 2x I did it, they drove by & I was "talked to" by them. I told them to come by after I am done---then if there is tons of snow in the road---give me the ticket. I never-ever leave snow in the road I told them, but you gotta give me a chance to clean it up & not write the ticket while I am doing it !!! They said fair enough. :rockon: So, I am hoping the impeller mod will let it throw farther with less "area blowback". Then I can throw it directly to the other bank without getting it all over the street & having to clear the road so much.
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by Reloaderguy » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:31 pm

TwinStick wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:58 pm
The Big Boy---at the time i bought it.........ST1336DLE Pro.
I was just curious because my Ariens will pile snow on the neighbor's roof. I don't have a 36" cutting width though and I'm sure that has some impact on performance. I can't answer any of your questions either, I didn't know suping up your snowblower was even a thing.
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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by RustyPW » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:52 am

Just build one of these. :lol: This way. You can put snow over the neighbor's house, and on the other side. Wonder how fast you can fill up a police car with it. :rofl:
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Mods to the PW; Nerffed Mopar RockRails, Wheel Well Liners, Bushwacker Pocket Fender Flairs, Garvmin dezl 560LMT GPS, Power Wagon Winch Kit, Line X Ultra Bed Liner, PIAA Headlight Bulbs, PIAA 580 Driving Lights (135 watt), PIAA 520 Fog Lights (135 watt), PIAA 520 ATP Off-Road Lights (135 watt), Locker Bypass, Modifed Rockcrusher Diff Covers, Mopar Utility Bed Rails and Tool Box, Warn Winch Wireless Remote Control, "el-cheapo" Inclinometer, Airaid CAI, Winch TPS Bypass, 35" Toyo's, Mopar Spare Tire Lock, 'T' Steering Linkage, Modifed PSC Steering Brace, P3 Brake Controller, Modifed Fusion "mall crawler" rear bumper , PIAA 1500 Back-Up Lights, 1Ton HEMI Tranny Cooler, Leer 100XR Bed Cap, Factory Tow Mirrors, CenterLine Rims 17x9-5.25 BS, Mag-Hytec Tranny Pan, AutoMeter Gauges, PSC Extreme Hydro Assist Steering, Carli G2 Track Bar, Carli Ball-Joints, Dynatrac FreeSpin Hubs, Snorkel, RCV Axles, EBC Pads & Rotors, Aluminess Front Bumper, BIG Pul-Pal, 60" Extreme Hi-lift Jack, and more riggin' equipment, Carli Long Travel Air Bags, Bilstein 7100 Shocks - Carli Valving, Carli Control Arms, Thuren 3" SoftRide Springs, Thuren Rear Shackles, MagnaFlow Muffler, Crown Stainless Brake Lines, MORE STUFF COMIN'.

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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by olyelr » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:32 am

What? Your road commision does not use one of these? Lol

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sSeB6ZHX7ng
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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by TwinStick » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:24 pm

In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by RustyPW » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:07 pm

He's just doing his job. Plowing snow off the streets. :lol:
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2008 POWER WAGON RC
Mods to the PW; Nerffed Mopar RockRails, Wheel Well Liners, Bushwacker Pocket Fender Flairs, Garvmin dezl 560LMT GPS, Power Wagon Winch Kit, Line X Ultra Bed Liner, PIAA Headlight Bulbs, PIAA 580 Driving Lights (135 watt), PIAA 520 Fog Lights (135 watt), PIAA 520 ATP Off-Road Lights (135 watt), Locker Bypass, Modifed Rockcrusher Diff Covers, Mopar Utility Bed Rails and Tool Box, Warn Winch Wireless Remote Control, "el-cheapo" Inclinometer, Airaid CAI, Winch TPS Bypass, 35" Toyo's, Mopar Spare Tire Lock, 'T' Steering Linkage, Modifed PSC Steering Brace, P3 Brake Controller, Modifed Fusion "mall crawler" rear bumper , PIAA 1500 Back-Up Lights, 1Ton HEMI Tranny Cooler, Leer 100XR Bed Cap, Factory Tow Mirrors, CenterLine Rims 17x9-5.25 BS, Mag-Hytec Tranny Pan, AutoMeter Gauges, PSC Extreme Hydro Assist Steering, Carli G2 Track Bar, Carli Ball-Joints, Dynatrac FreeSpin Hubs, Snorkel, RCV Axles, EBC Pads & Rotors, Aluminess Front Bumper, BIG Pul-Pal, 60" Extreme Hi-lift Jack, and more riggin' equipment, Carli Long Travel Air Bags, Bilstein 7100 Shocks - Carli Valving, Carli Control Arms, Thuren 3" SoftRide Springs, Thuren Rear Shackles, MagnaFlow Muffler, Crown Stainless Brake Lines, MORE STUFF COMIN'.

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Rausch Creek Spring-Fall '11, Spring '12, Summer '13, Summer '14, Summer '15, Summer '16, Summer '17, Summer '18,
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Re: Need some math help here...........................

Post by TwinStick » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:21 pm

I agree. He did get fired though. He enjoyed his job too much I guess. :lol:
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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