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Why can't ...........

Postby TwinStick » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:39 pm

These magnetic motors be used to produce electricity for electric vehicles....while they are traveling......for an indefinite range ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHW6b1aFPfU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwoeU2K17WM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktKV9hDYVdI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK3JOlY0V8Y
2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls a 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????
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Re: Why can't ...........

Postby DamageWagon » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:52 pm

I never watch these videos, but assuming this is a serious question I will briefly answer it in an attempt to save you from adeluca's 9-page mini-thesis of a response.

This system is already in use. It is the sole motive device in Electric TT bikes, in addition to a battery. The motor is a high torque electric motor they also recovers energy during braking and coasting, hugely increasing the range of the bike. It is also used on all F1 cars now in a KERS device (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) that acts as a small motor to assist the primary engine during acceleration, and as a generator when braking to recharge. This provided I think a 50hp average increase the first year it was used.

Now, the reason this will never be infinite power or self sustaining, is due to imperfections and losses. Drive to work with all your lights on and then put your hand on your alternator. It has losses, expressed as heat mainly. So do your wires, the computer controlling it consumes power, and electric motors always generate heat during operation. Heat is energy, and it is unharnessable in this system. Thus it is a loss, and they energy has now left the system. These systems absolutely can increase range, reduce brake wear, reduce necessary motor and battery size, but will never be self sustaining. That's not to include that a car has headlights, turn signals, computers, etc that draw power but never produce it.


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Re: Why can't ...........

Postby Mule » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:28 pm

conservation of energy, blah blah blah... neither created nor destroyed... something about efficiency and losses inherent every time energy is converted from one form to another...

There's cool stuff happening with efficiency and reducing conversion losses, but ... "free energy" will never be a thing. Laws of physics keep getting in the way.

"Power companies hate this!" :lol
Along with the "solar freakin roadways!" morons, really illustrates how little the general public understands science/physics/engineering.
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Re: Why can't ...........

Postby TwinStick » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:51 pm

But if your battery operated electric car is parked after you get to work, and this thing is still spinning producing power, why can't it charge the battery the elec car runs on ?
2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls a 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????
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Re: Why can't ...........

Postby DamageWagon » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:10 pm

TwinStick wrote:But if your battery operated electric car is parked after you get to work, and this thing is still spinning producing power, why can't it charge the battery the elec car runs on ?


The more power you want to create, the more torque it takes to turn the generator. It will in fact continue to charge the battery after the vehicle is parked, but only until the rotor stops spinning. Better bearings help, but still there are losses at every step in the process. This is the same reason we see massive hydroelectric plants. It takes constant torque to turn those rotors to put out power. They don't let water in to start them and then shut off the valve, the losses in those systems are such that they require constant, massive torque. Just like your alternator. Put power to your alternator wires and try to turn it by hand, versus turning it with the alternator powered off. There is a huge difference in torque input because the magnetic field is fighting you.


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Re: Why can't ...........

Postby TwinStick » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:30 pm

Well, am I missing something here ? Those motors have over 1000 magnets in them, that keep it turning. Like when you put 2 magnets together so one pushes the other away. Just get them spinning to start with & they stay running, right ?
2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls a 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????
TwinStick
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Re: Why can't ...........

Postby DamageWagon » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:39 pm

TwinStick wrote:Well, am I missing something here ? Those motors have over 1000 magnets in them, that keep it turning. Like when you put 2 magnets together so one pushes the other away. Just get them spinning to start with & they stay running, right ?


Wind resistance, bearing friction. A motor large enough to really help a vehicle of size has to itself be fairly large and thus have a high inertia. Inertia is what takes energy to get it spinning, while also being the thing that keeps it from stopping. Again, yes it would help, but no it isn't a perfect solution. A car with a battery pack and one of these thingies (I still haven't watched the video but they always have the same style device) WOULD increase range, and recharge some when parked. But there are always losses in every section of the system. The reasons they don't use them in commuter cars are:

They are damn expensive, even in comparison to an electric motor, in order to be worth having. The Electric TT bikes used one motor for every bike, every team, for years because there was only one design in the world that worked enough to even get within a few miles of the finish line. I don't know what they are using now.

They limit your range. A Prius is cool because you still have a gas engine and can get fuel. Compare this to the Fiat that is all electric. It's cool if you drive 20 miles to work and 20 miles home. That's all you get til you plug in again. This device would help them, but it's still not going to be a road trip machine.


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Re: Why can't ...........

Postby TwinStick » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:09 pm

Too bad. I thought they could/do make magnets powerful enough to keep these motors running indefinitely. In the one video, it ran for over 8 hrs i think.
2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls a 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????
TwinStick
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Posts: 3687
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Why can't ...........

Postby DamageWagon » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:52 pm

TwinStick wrote:Too bad. I thought they could/do make magnets powerful enough to keep these motors running indefinitely. In the one video, it ran for over 8 hrs i think.


Im going to again say I didn't watch it but... Based on my assumption of what it is, a magnet has absolutely no affect on that system. The push is the same as the pull is. If they took the magnet out it wouldn't change a thing, other than he inertia of the system.


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Re: Why can't ...........

Postby Mule » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:52 pm

TwinStick wrote:Well, am I missing something here ? Those motors have over 1000 magnets in them, that keep it turning. Like when you put 2 magnets together so one pushes the other away. Just get them spinning to start with & they stay running, right ?

Image

:idea:
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