What's wrong with my Hemi?

[DamageWagon]

Minor evap leaks are usually the gas cap.

Tried putting grease on the gas cap deal. Also replaced gas cap with a Mopar one. No success. Im worried that after the fence got wrapped around my driveshaft it maybe caused a minor puncture if he gas tank. I cannot find one but my understanding is that even the tiniest puncture will fail evap self-tests. Don't know. My cummins never had this crap...

My truck had lockers... My truck has lockers... My truck is lighter... I love my wagon... I love my wagon...


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[cruz]

A month ago/2000 miles


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Thank you, those are all really good suggestions. The old plugs looked to be a little lean. I don't know if that's normal on these engines?

I have swapped coil packs with no change. I cleaned the MAP sensor and PCV valve and throttle body. I sprayed brake cleaner around the intake manifold to see if idle changed, but it had no effect.

I will try your idea on the vacuum line. I think if that does not work I will get it smoke tested to see if we can find a leak.

I think I'll take it to a dealer to check for updates too, I don't think it's had one in a long while.

If these tests don't work I will go down your list to the other items.

I appreciate your answers, you might end up saving me some coin and a lot of frustration


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When i replaced distributor cap & rotor & the factory coil with an Accel coil on my 88' Ford Ranger, I had all kinds of miss fire issues. Replaced with another new Accel coil. Same thing. Put a new Ford part on there & it ran fine. A mechanic said maybe the Accel coil was just putting out too much spark ? Kept burning up distributor & rotor. The whole weakest link kinda thing. I always used ford coils after that on that truck & had no more issues. Weird.

I think someone else had this issue a while back & it had something to do with the evap canister that is underneath by tank somewhere.

That's interesting. I was worried that the last owner replaced the coils with MSD instead of factory. He did this right before I bought the truck, but he said it didn't change anything. I still have the factory coils.

I have heard the little evap pump bolted to the canister can go out and cause issues with trouble codes. I might just replace it, that's a cheap part and there's no way to test them I think. Are you saying though that an evap canister problem has caused engine issues?


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Hello DamageWagon,

Sorry to hear about your engine troubles, it might be worthwhile to take it to the dealer for a diagnosys then fix the problem yourself. It will probably cost you an hour labor's but it's often cheaper than throwing parts at it. Good luck!

You very well might be right. I really am not considering going to the dealer because I've been through so much troubleshooting already that I doubt they will have anything new that isn't also on the list of things to still check, unless it is something that is too expensive for me to pay them to check anyways. They might know exactly what is wrong and have a fix that could save me a lot of time and money and energy it's the thought that they could be complete idiots that take my truck away for 3 days and charge me hundreds to look under the hood and find nothing that keeps me from ever considering a dealership... I'm biased, and I know it. Maybe if it gets to that point, I will take it in.


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The dealer scanner can see codes that you won't pick up with a $10K Snap-On scanner.

I never thought about that. We used one of the nice Snap-On scanners a few times but it makes sense that the people who made the codes would have more accessible than the company that had to find them and put them into their products. Thanks!


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I don't think it's connectors based on the symptoms. Could be, but I'm led to think otherwise. One reason I think O2 sensors is that the exhaust system has been covered in mud for years, and I know that the added thermal insulation will hurt the sensors over time. O2 sensors live in a hot environment but once the sensors and cats get hot enough they start to fail very fast.

Drive ability is consistent though. I don't have a baseline, I've never driven another 5.7 but I assume it drives normally. It drives just fine once it's over 1000rpm.

One weird thing that just happened last night for the first time was that while I was driving home from work o noticed the exhaust started to sound really weird. It sounded really deep and resonant out of the blue, like it has never sounded, as if I was driving through a drive-thru. I pulled over and checked it out and it was running a little rough but not the worst I have felt it. The sound slowly improved back to normal. I started driving again, and it was running rough at the first light where I stopped. By the time I made it to the second light it was running the smoothest I have ever felt, no kidding. I didn't know my engine could run that smooth, I'm so used to it always feeling a little rough.

Does everyone else's engine feel smooth at idle?


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Thanks man, that's good to know! I don't think it's the cam because it is hit or miss, but it could be valve springs maybe? I really don't think it is but I could be wrong.

I'm open to pulling valve covers though


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My exhaust has a deep, resonant sound right after start-up, when it is in the cold loop. Is it possible it is drifting back and forth between hot and cold parameters? If so, would this show up with a real time scan?

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That's an interesting thought, I didn't think of that. I wonder what determines which loop it is in? Is it the temperature sensor?


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Thanks for the advice guys, it has been solid.

I'm thinking there are codes in there that are not showing up like has been said. I will have rough running and even blatant misfires and it will not trigger the CEL. A few times though it did trigger the CEL and was flashing. I'll try to get my emissions codes taken care of and then proceed from there. Minor and major evap system leak is what the codes are
0440
0456
0457


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Minor evap leaks are usually the gas cap.

Tried putting grease on the gas cap deal. Also replaced gas cap with a Mopar one. No success. Im worried that after the fence got wrapped around my driveshaft it maybe caused a minor puncture if he gas tank. I cannot find one but my understanding is that even the tiniest puncture will fail evap self-tests. Don't know. My cummins never had this crap...

My truck had lockers... My truck has lockers... My truck is lighter... I love my wagon... I love my wagon...


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Please excuse me, I'm not trying to be critical, but don't you see a pattern developing here ? IMO, try to find a reputable Dealership ( hell, there is gotta' be one in all of SoCal ) , pay for a scan to try to pinpoint the problem, but repair it yourself. It could get very frustrating and very expensive to just throw theory and parts at it.

[DamageWagon]

That's the longest quote I've ever seen. Gettysburg Address status.

When I start to get in more of a rush I very well might. I have a hookup that owns a mechanic shop so I think I'm going to pay the $80 to have it smoke tested to see if there is actually a leak in the system. If that doesn't work I think you guys have convinced me to take it in and get the codes checked.


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[Ducky's Dad]

Screw the smoke test and just take it to a dealer for their scan. Have you checked for TSBs? Have you walked into a dealer and talked to the service manager, see if this is a known issue? You seem to be wasting a lot of time and effort trying to DIY a problem that may not be easily diagnosed, but may be easily fixed once diagnosed. Time is money (for most of us). Hell, if you are in CA the repairs may be covered by the extended emissions warranty.

[DamageWagon]

Definitely won't be under warranty, it's a salvage title, ex-government too. Anyways you may be right. My fear is that I walk in the door, get a confidence-inspiring talk from the service manager, they plug in a code reader and tell me the same codes I already have and I'm $130 down the drain with no progress. This scenario has been my experience with dealers.


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[Ducky's Dad]

Definitely won't be under warranty, it's a salvage title, ex-government too.

The emissions warranty does not care if it's salvage title or ex-government or if it was seized from a drug lord and sold at auction. If it's registered in CA, the warranty applies, up to age and mileage limits. Those limits should be in your owner's manual. Your truck is new enough to qualify, so what's the mileage on it?

[DamageWagon]

Definitely won't be under warranty, it's a salvage title, ex-government too.

The emissions warranty does not care if it's salvage title or ex-government or if it was seized from a drug lord and sold at auction. If it's registered in CA, the warranty applies, up to age and mileage limits. Those limits should be in your owner's manual. Your truck is new enough to qualify, so what's the mileage on it?

Interesting. It's got 154,000 miles on it. If that's correct I would happily take it in. Would they care if the truck was from New Mexico though?


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[cruz]

For what it's worth, this is what they were doing in 2005. I doubt if they've relaxed the emissions standards over the years.
Hell, it's worth a try.

[DamageWagon]

I don't meet any of those. My mileage puts me over all of them, unless they honor the 7 year federal warranty. I can at least ask though, it's worth a shot

Thanks Cruz!


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[DamageWagon]

Ok, I have an update. So over the weekend I disconnected the battery to remove the codes. As soon as I started the truck it kicked out the "gas cap" warning. For the last 3 drives though the truck has ran noticeably better, feels stronger, idles smoother, no rough running, way better mileage. It was like dropping a new engine in. After 3 drive cycles it turned on the check engine light, my mileage went to crap and it feels crappy constantly now. My understanding is that 3 drive cycles of a leak kicks out the check engine light, and 3 cycles of no leak turns the light off.

So here's my thinking. The leak detection pump only functions when the truck has run through a drive cycle, and is then turned off for a certain amount of time. The leak detection pump then uses the vacuum created by the fuel in the tank cooling off from running temperature. If it does not detect vacuum, it has a vapor leak in the system. ------ what I think is that this means the leak detection pump is fine since it ran 3 cycles before erroring out, and probably my only issue is an actual leak somewhere. I'm leaning again towards a smoke test. I don't think the computer will have any knowledge of what is happening as the root cause outside of a gross leak.

Any thoughts?


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[flattire]

Good news that the truck can run fine when all is working correctly. Now go get that leak.

[DamageWagon]

Good news that the truck can run fine when all is working correctly. Now go get that leak.

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[TwinStick]

Did you clear the code after replacing the gas cap ? My truck has a certain # of on/off cycles before light goes out on it's own. I think dealer said a dozen or two.

Also of note: Dodge/Ram/Daimler Chrysler had a LARGE batch of bad gas caps not so long ago. I went through 8 on my 2000 Dakota & 7 on my 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 & 2 so far on my 2008 Power Wagon. Just because it is new, does not mean it isn't bad. Wonder how many are still in stock ?

[DamageWagon]

Did you clear the code after replacing the gas cap ? My truck has a certain # of on/off cycles before light goes out on it's own. I think dealer said a dozen or two.

Also of note: Dodge/Ram/Daimler Chrysler had a LARGE batch of bad gas caps not so long ago. I went through 8 on my 2000 Dakota & 7 on my 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 & 2 so far on my 2008 Power Wagon. Just because it is new, does not mean it isn't bad. Wonder how many are still in stock ?

I ran it through several cycles and it did not clear, so then I clears the codes by pulling the battery cable. I put wheel bearing grease on the last one because I thought even if the gasket was leaking, that should seal it. I only put it on the gasket mating surface. Is there somewhere else to grease as a test?


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[TwinStick]

I never used grease. What I did to figure it out: took gas cap off, VERY carefully pried it apart, without breaking it, then epoxied all the air holes & so it did not "click" anymore. Meaning, you could REALLY tighten it up, with no stupid clicking. Heating it up in hot water helps make the plastic less brittle when prying it apart. After it cured for a couple days, I put it back on. After a week, the light went out. So then I went back to dealer & told them the new cap was faulty. They gave me a new one. The factory ones only lasted about 6 months. I think i still have the epoxied one around somewhere, but i don't know where. Got lost in the garage somewhere. I have been using it since 2000, as my Dakota, 2004 & 2008 all have/had the same gas cap.

NOTE: I did open it when i got home from work & again before i started truck. I did not want it to vapor lock while driving. Everytime I opened it, i could hear the air come out. Kinda the same sound as when you open a jar, only air came out, instead of going in.

[DamageWagon]

TwinStick that's a good idea. So you just swapped to a working factory cap then? I'll have to see if I can replicate that, that's a cheap test. I did the 5 key turns thing to check my engine error codes today a few times and it gave me nothing. I think it may be just the cap. The last one looked kind of thrashed. New one may be a dud.


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[Will]

My 2010 will throw a gas cap light showing the gas cap is faulty or loose.

[TwinStick]

TwinStick that's a good idea. So you just swapped to a working factory cap then? I'll have to see if I can replicate that, that's a cheap test. I did the 5 key turns thing to check my engine error codes today a few times and it gave me nothing. I think it may be just the cap. The last one looked kind of thrashed. New one may be a dud.


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I did what i did just to prove to the dealer that their brand new gas cap was faulty, cause they were gonna make pay again & would not exchange it. Their stance was : it's new, there's nothing wrong with it. Then upon researching it & talking to mechanic's (other than the dealer), I found it was a common problem but did not become one until after they made the "gas cap" part of the inspections here in NY State. Mechanic's seem to think it was no coincident. They said gas caps went from $6 to $28 once they were on the inspection list.

Also, I tried the locking gas cap. Big FAIL. Because of the locking assembly, they would not hold pressure.

[DamageWagon]

Alright guys I really need your advice and experience here. The misfire went away but the truck now consistently runs rough. Between startup and the engine getting warm is the worst time, but even when warm it runs a little rough. Almost never smooth, maybe three times have I ever sat at a stop sign and thought "this is ALMOST what it should feel like". Well, I found out it seems my NVLD emissions pump went bad so I went to the dealer to buy a replacement to get this thing smogged. While I was there I asked to talk with an engine guy, and the parts guy went and got both engine guys for me. One seemed ok, but the other one said he used to work for Selene and knew what I was talking about pretty well when I started talking about Arrington's stuff. Anyways, as soon as I described my symptoms they asked how often I change the oil, I said every 3-4000 miles, I had proof since it was a law enforcement truck. They both immediately said "it's your cam". I asked how they knew, they said I already went through the little stuff and law enforcement Hemis trash their cams all the time. They said the constant idling kills the cams and lifters. Then shortly after that the cam bearings go out, and those aren't replaceable, so you either need to machine the block or buy a new one. They had a charger in the back they were replacing the engine because it had 40% blowby at 60,000 miles. is this well known? Are they jerking my chain? I told them we leave in a week for a 4 month road trip and they said "no you aren't, fix that first." A new engine is not in my budget. I could do a can and spend two full days replacing it, but if the bearings are shot I still need a new block! What do I do?


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[Reloaderguy]

Alright guys I really need your advice and experience here. The misfire went away but the truck now consistently runs rough. Between startup and the engine getting warm is the worst time, but even when warm it runs a little rough. Almost never smooth, maybe three times have I ever sat at a stop sign and thought "this is ALMOST what it should feel like". Well, I found out it seems my NVLD emissions pump went bad so I went to the dealer to buy a replacement to get this thing smogged. While I was there I asked to talk with an engine guy, and the parts guy went and got both engine guys for me. One seemed ok, but the other one said he used to work for Selene and knew what I was talking about pretty well when I started talking about Arrington's stuff. Anyways, as soon as I described my symptoms they asked how often I change the oil, I said every 3-4000 miles, I had proof since it was a law enforcement truck. They both immediately said "it's your cam". I asked how they knew, they said I already went through the little stuff and law enforcement Hemis trash their cams all the time. They said the constant idling kills the cams and lifters. Then shortly after that the cam bearings go out, and those aren't replaceable, so you either need to machine the block or buy a new one. They had a charger in the back they were replacing the engine because it had 40% blowby at 60,000 miles. is this well known? Are they jerking my chain? I told them we leave in a week for a 4 month road trip and they said "no you aren't, fix that first." A new engine is not in my budget. I could do a can and spend two full days replacing it, but if the bearings are shot I still need a new block! What do I do?


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What have you checked so far? new gapped plugs? Have you had a Blackstone labs oil analysis?

[DamageWagon]

New gapped OEM plugs. New MSD coils. New Crank and Cam position sensors. Upstream O2 sensors going in tomorrow. Cleaned throttle body. Did the seafoam thing in gas and through the brake booster vacuum tube.

Changing the Crank/Cam sensors got rid of the blatant misfire it bad and really improved things, but did not fix the rough running.

I have a sample to send to Blackstone. Calling them first thing to see how fast they can read it and if they need anything special to speed it up.


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[Reloaderguy]

Clevite makes cam bearings for the 5.7 Hemi.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Chrysler- ... 1138785532

[nts007]

I was talking to a Chrysler veteran tech and he informed me that the cams in some instances in the 13-15s have been delaminating (not 100% on how that is a thing) but there has been enough of them now that it may become a recall in the future. When it happens and isn't addresses quick enough it trashes the engine. So far he only know about it in the 5.7s and doesn't have any information on the 6.4. This could also be part of the leading answer you are getting as "it's in your cam" as it is becoming a common enough problem. His suggestion for prevention was to make sure you've only been running good oil. The mopar brand oil is an esso oil and is good. We had a chat about the pennzoil and he gave me a dirty look and said run that then plan for a new engine. Also keep in mind fleet/gov vehicles are usually maintained with whatever the most cost effective products are available at fleet or bulk rates.
Anyway good chance it could be your cam at this point. Be careful

[DamageWagon]

Well crap. That's good to know but I don't know what to do right now. Thanks nts. I looked at the Arrington cams but another $500 isn't in the budget. I just scoped out can for $74 and each yoke with lifters for $80, need 4 of those. That and two $50 head gaskets, assuming I do nothing else, and I'm dropping $500 I never planned on, on a problem I don't know exists, that may be even worse than I can fix with those parts, in time that I don't have, before leaving for an 8000 mile solo trip. F'in curveball, dude.


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[DamageWagon]

I think tomorrow I'll pull both valve covers and turn the engine over to see if all lifters move equally. Obviously intake/exhaust may be different, but there's YouTube videos showing obvious differences on the bad cam lobes.


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