Death Wobble HELP!

[Chaos Lurks]

I have a 2007 quad cab Power Wagon with the dreaded Death Wobble. I need help. I have changed the steering stabilizer to a heavy Rancho one. That didnt fix the problem. I took it to the dealership and they put new tie rod ends,draglink,track bar bushings and when they realigned the front end I had them toe-in the tires just a bit, which they also recommended. Now it shakes and wobbles at 40 mph instead of 60mph, like before. They didnt have a clue how to fix it. They said to get new tires. Even though I still had about 15,000 miles left on the old set. So today I put new factory BFG's back on it and it still does it. I was told by another Chrysler mechanic to try and change the caster angle on the front axle. But not too much as it would wear the new tires. I just got done changing it 2 degress and it still wobbles. The dealer also recommended changing shocks. I still have the original Bilsteens on it and the truck has 93,000 miles on it. The shocks still give me a firm ride and dont float over bumps, like they usually do when they are worn out. I have not seen anywhere where shocks cure this wobble issue and hate to throw more money at possible fixes for this truck. It is killing me with all the repairs. I pull a trailer with a Harley on it and dont want to destroy the bike and the truck it this issues happens on the highway. Right now the truck is useless to me. I cant drive it to work and had to get a back up vehicle to get me to work. So right now I have a $47,000.00 hunk of metal sitting in the driveway. Any help would be really appreciated!

[TwinStick]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I have been there done that, as MANY of us have. It is NOT a PW specific problem. All 2500/3500/PW's will get this eventually. Now comes the bad news: these trucks were designed & made with cheap-ass shoddy front end parts. I personally believe it was done on purpose for "future revenue". Usually, no ONE part is so worn as to be able to point & say "yup, there's your problem right there." It usually is a combination of parts. Ask 20 different people who have had "Death Wobble" & you will get 20 different ways/answers on HOW they fixed it. It can be a simple fix, but usually is not. I personally took an approach to replace most everything at once with high quality parts. Carli, PSC, Borgeson, Spicer triple lip seal u-joints, MOOG HD tie rod ends. It sucks, but that is the reality of it. ALL trucks have their issues. Ours is the front end.

Problem areas:
Tires/tire pressure
shocks
control arms/bushings
trac bar/bushings
upper/lower ball joints
wheel/unit bearings
lower cam adjusters not in proper position
front end alignment
steering gearbox/& lack of brace on it
steering shaft
front axle u-joints
steering stabilizer (Rancho ones are not very good---sorry)
bolt holes ovaled out FROM death wobble---this can happen in as little as ONE episode of it
all 4 tie rod ends

Even the brand new trucks have experienced death wobble in as little as 1800 miles. Mine began a little at 18,500 miles. I tow a camper @ 10,500 lbs. I never actually got full death wobble, but could feel it starting. So i replaced: upper/lower ball joints, track bar, control arms, steering shaft, added a PSC steering box brace, all new tie rods, front axle u-joints. I have had no issues since, however i still need a new steering gearbox, power steering pump, etc.

[bstefanic]

BFG AT's all the way. In attempt to save mileage on my 37" KM2's bought a used set of 35" BFG AT's...the only time I've ever had death wobble and it was incredibly bad with BFG AT's. If you do a little research they're actually known for not being that good on heavy vehicles...the side walls have to much flex. Get a different set of tires...will fix it right away

[GunniPWguy]

Welcome to the chaos..... Chaos lurks. Like Twinstick said, it is the combination of all the front end components working together as one. sounds like its time for some more new parts. Ball Joints yet? Those are a definite must for the quest of no DW. Next (IMO)would be the T-steering upgrade that comes with new TRE's Good luck to you.

[pdavey]

Welcome to the chaos..... Chaos lurks. Like Twinstick said, it is the combination of all the front end components working together as one. sounds like its time for some more new parts. Ball Joints yet? Those are a definite must for the quest of no DW. Next (IMO)would be the T-steering upgrade that comes with new TRE's Good luck to you.

I agree with the last two posts. The biggest culprits here are the tires, the BFG's just aren't great for this truck (I recommend a load range E tire). I would also swap out the steering to the new style and change your track bar.

Ultimately the steering geometry on these trucks in the early years was not great on top of the tires really not being the greatest.

[FirerescuePW]

Are you lifted? Some have had issues with something as small as a leveling spacer. It changes the relationship between the track bar and steering linkage.

[cruz]

I agree with everyone that the design and low quality parts (ball joints, etc.) plus the BFG A/Ts can all have bad effects on PW steering, BUT oddly enough I have had ZERO steering problems with my stock '05 and BFG A/Ts after 41k miles.
I went for an alignment after I put on my new tires (load range E) and was surprised to find out that I need new ball joints.
It has always tracked and still tracks straight with no problems what so ever. I hope I have not jinxed myself with this post.

[VA_Wagon Man]

I'm at 152,000 with a 2.5" front spacer and have had Zero issues.

Sent from the middle of nowhere.

[Chaos Lurks]

I appreciate all the help to try and fix this problem. I am going to try and replace the upper and lower ball joints next. Any advice on a good heavy duty after market ball joints?

Thanks for the help!

[VA_Wagon Man]

Carli.

Sent from the middle of nowhere.

[pdavey]

X2. Carli is the only way to go for ball joints. They don't call them bombproof for nothing.

Sent from my DROID DNA

[Chaos Lurks]

I replaced the upper and lower ball joints and still have the Death Wobble. The dealership is at a loss for what is going on. Any ideas what to try next? I have about $3800.00 tied up in this issue so far and about ready to try some C-4!

Also. I called Chrysler Customer Service in Dtetroit. They say they have NEVER heard of this issue and that I was the FIRST one to ever complain about this issue! I guess someone needs to die before Dodge does something about this issue! Has anybody else called Chrysler to complain about this???


Thanks for the help. Gary

[Dawizman]

I have never called Chrysler, but I've had it happen on two trucks now. Maybe I should call & complain.

[06powerwagon06]

Also. I called Chrysler Customer Service in Dtetroit. They say they have NEVER heard of this issue and that I was the FIRST one to ever complain about this issue! I guess someone needs to die before Dodge does something about this issue! Has anybody else called Chrysler to complain about this???

Didn't someone post a video of a news broadcast that specifically did a piece on Dodge's death wobble over on DT? I remember watching it. I'm pretty sure Chrysler knows all about the front end problems with the 2500/3500 trucks!! If they don't think it happens, take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LaMXupbfdA There's plenty more on youtube

[djgaston]

Hey Gary! Dodge is aware of the issue; I'm not sure why they won't admit to it. Liability reasons I guess. If they admit there is a problem, they have to fix it. If someone crashes because of it, good luck proving anything.

The email I sent you was pretty detailed. My advice is still to track down the worn parts, instead of throwing money at this and hoping something works.

The things I mentioned as likely causes, you kind of went right past them. The tires you are running have been shown to cause the issue. The problem is that every time DW happens, you are wearing out other parts and therefore costing yourself more money. New ball joints won't last long in a truck that has death wobble. Then in a month you'll be scratching your head wondering if the ball joints were faulty. They aren't; your truck will just destroy them in no time.

The dealership is probably the last place to go to diagnose this. You need a real mechanic and preferably someone who knows Dodges. It's not just a Dodge problem but our setup is different than Fords and Jeeps, who also deal with this. There is a worn part or multiple worn parts somewhere and until you find the source, everything else is just money wasted.

Adjusting air pressure in your tires won't help when the sidewalls simply aren't strong enough to hold up the truck. Some people have no issues with them, but I would almost bet money that if you go with some load range E Toyo tires, your whole issue will go away... the catch being that any parts damaged from the BFGs will still give you fits until you replace them, AFTER the tires are changed out.

I have been down this road a dozen times. Dealing with it on our Power Wagon as we speak.

[Chaos Lurks]

Danny,
Thanks for the advice. The new BFG's that I got were ordered and delivered before I got the advice on the Toyo tires. I had been running them for 93,000 miles without a problem. So when the dealership told me to put new tires on it I ordered them. Today I had another dealership put tires on it from one of the trucks they had on the lot. They were Michelen's. not sure of the load rating. But the wobble was still there. Tomorrow they are putting new bolts in the track bar(after I had the other dealership replace the track bar bushings with some Dana Brand bushings). Also they are changing the steering stabalizer from the Rancho brand. When I had the truck in the air at the tire shop, I grabbed the driver side tire and turned it to the left and right and the Rancho stabalizer seemed awful weak. There was not much resistance at all. I am on vacation as of now and need the truck for vacation to get back to Missouri. Looks like the Dodge is gonna let me down. I have to be in Missouri by Sunday to meet my daughters, so the plans may have to change. The dealer is going to work on it tomorrow. So hopefully something comes of the repairs. Thanks for the help.

[Chaos Lurks]

FirerescuePW, Sorry I missed your message, but no it is not lifted. It is standard height 2007 Power Wagon. Thanks

[GunniPWguy]

Hope you get it figured out. I don't know first-hand but, what a crappy feeling it is wondering when your truck is going to wobble out of control. Good Luck.

[verdesardog]

I don't have nor ever had death wobble but while working on installing an exhaust brake on my cummins I discovered the rear bolt for the passenger side upper control arm was completly missing!

I wonder how long I've been driving like that????

[djgaston]

Where at in Missouri? Get it to me in northern Arkansas and I'll figure it out.

The new tires you put on won't get rid of the wobble because, like I said in the last post, there are other components damaged now. That is the equivalent of tearing your ACL, THEN wearing a brace and hoping it will fix the pain.

There is a specific order you need to follow to diagnose this because if you skip a step, you will still have the problem and now less money in your wallet. Jumping to step 6 does not produce the same end result, if 1 through 5 are ignored. And the possible benefit from step 6 will be totally negated when the issues in 1 through 5 aren't addressed.

The steering stabilizer should be the last thing they look at. It will do nothing for any of this. You are looking at replacing hard parts, getting the alignment set properly, then swapping tires. So far the ball joints are a good start. Now go through the rest of the list. And don't let the dealership tell you that 1/16" of play in anything is acceptable - it's not. You need the hubs and track bar and steering all totally tight.

I was just talking to a guy yesterday about steering stabilizers and realized I have not run one in about ten years. No death wobble on any truck once I fixed previous issues. And my trucks are all running at least 37" tires; one in 41" unbalanced Iroks and one on unbalanced 44" Boggers. Getting rid of death wobble for good can be done. But following the procedures your dealer goes through or listening to random people on the Internet will not get you anywhere. Everyone has an opinion on death wobble and 95% of people are wrong about how to fix it. Skip the band aids and go straight to the heart of the problem.

[GunniPWguy]

Where at in Missouri? Get it to me in northern Arkansas and I'll figure it out.

The new tires you put on won't get rid of the wobble because, like I said in the last post, there are other components damaged now. That is the equivalent of tearing your ACL, THEN wearing a brace and hoping it will fix the pain.

There is a specific order you need to follow to diagnose this because if you skip a step, you will still have the problem and now less money in your wallet. Jumping to step 6 does not produce the same end result, if 1 through 5 are ignored. And the possible benefit from step 6 will be totally negated when the issues in 1 through 5 aren't addressed.

The steering stabilizer should be the last thing they look at. It will do nothing for any of this. You are looking at replacing hard parts, getting the alignment set properly, then swapping tires. So far the ball joints are a good start. Now go through the rest of the list. And don't let the dealership tell you that 1/16" of play in anything is acceptable - it's not. You need the hubs and track bar and steering all totally tight.

I was just talking to a guy yesterday about steering stabilizers and realized I have not run one in about ten years. No death wobble on any truck once I fixed previous issues. And my trucks are all running at least 37" tires; one in 41" unbalanced Iroks and one on unbalanced 44" Boggers. Getting rid of death wobble for good can be done. But following the procedures your dealer goes through or listening to random people on the Internet will not get you anywhere. Everyone has an opinion on death wobble and 95% of people are wrong about how to fix it. Skip the band aids and go straight to the heart of the problem.

Sound advice right there.

[TwinStick]

djgaston

You REALLY need to post the steps, in the order they need to be in, in the FAQ section, please. A LOT of people would benefit, that cant get their truck to you.

[djgaston]

I've been working on a write up on that for several years. Carli actually came out with a very detailed set of instructions on how to check a lot of the parts, which I thought was great. The only thing is that it's very biased to their products (not that I blame them), but the honest truth is that there are a lot of aftermarket upgrades available from many companies that can help cure death wobble. Carli is just one of them. So I'm going to finish mine in the format that it was started, which is unbiased and not brand-loyal. I try to write all of my technical articles that way. I'm more interested in helping Ram owners everywhere, than trying to sell everybody something. Since Dodge won't step up and put their resources behind fixing death wobble, I guess somebody has to.

[Chaos Lurks]

Thanks Danny for the offer. But I am flat broke throwing money at this damn truck. I have over $4000.00 stuck in the front end of this thing. I am currently in Kokomo Indiana working for Chrysler at a transmission plant. That actually makes transmissions for the Pwer Wagons and Diesels. I got transfered here from Missouri, when the Dodge truck plant in Fenton Missouri got shut down. I am going back to Missouri tomorrow(Sunday) on vacation to see my daughters who are back from college for spring break. We were planning on getting the bass boat out and doing some fishing. But the Death Wobble ended those plans. I am paying for both of my daughters college as the bill comes due, so they are not strapped with a bunch of bills when they get out. So throwing $4000 at the truck has me totally wiped out. If I had the resources, I would have this damn thing shipped down to you in Arkansas so you could fix it. It would take a weeks vacation just to drive this to you at 35 mph. I am totally fed up with this thing , but really appreciate the help. I am not sure what to do next as I am broke. But right now C-4 is my next option.
Thanks!

[TwinStick]

Front axle u-joints-they should have been replaced while doing the upper/lower ball joints (all that stuff needs to come off anyways so there is no sense paying for the same labor twice). Mine were bad in just 18,500 miles of ALL street driving !!!