2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

If it's about Power Wagons, all generations, this is where it'll go. This is the original PWR Forum Power Wagon Technical Discussion Section. And this includes everything that doesn’t fit in any one of the other categories related to the truck goes here!
Post Reply
NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by NickTF » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:09 pm

So, at the advice of Retired BLM I bought a copy of my service manual from the link on my thread regarding a questions about tie rod pinch nut torque and was super shocked to see the OEM specified track bar bolt torque spec in comparison to the popular Thuren or Carli specs of 200-210 ft-lbs. The OEM specified track bar bolt torque is as follows: Track Bar to Frame - 324 ft lbs, Track Bar to Axle - 285 ft-lbs. I sent this to Don but haven't received feedback from him yet. What am I missing here, why the large discrepancy? The OEM bolt is 18mm and fine threaded (27mm hex head) and a quick google search shows that the specified torque is not out of the range in never never land depending on bolt grade and coefficient of friction. I thought this was interesting. Thoughts?

laramieskibum
50_Posts
50_Posts
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:47 pm

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by laramieskibum » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:45 pm

I’ve noticed this also. I went with the higher torque when I’ve replaced mine. Twice. New bolts each time Incase I stretched them...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2014 CCSB Tradesman 2500 -- G56 -- AEV dualsport -- AEV Katla -- 37x12.5r17 Toyo MT -- 315/70r17 Nokian Hakkapeliitta -- AEV bumper -- VisionX 6.7" light cannon -- Warn 16.5TI -- Mopar flares -- 8.4" Uconnect swap w/ customtronix jailbreak (front/rear/trailer cam) -- 3.73 gears w/ ARB front and rear -- Switch-Pros 8100

User avatar
Rodeoflyer
500_Posts
500_Posts
Posts: 515
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:53 am
Model Year: 2016
Location: Conifer, CO

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by Rodeoflyer » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:10 pm

I put 250 on mine when I installed it at 30k miles and 250 again when I removed it for bushing inspection at 75k miles. It’s been good so far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RustyPW
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 4:23 pm
Model Year: 2008
Location: Brownsville Pa.

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by RustyPW » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:18 pm

If they are torque to yield bolts. They have a higher torque. If you reuse them. Then you have to use a lower torque spec on them. A torque to yield gets torqued beyond the state of elasticity and therefore undergoes plastic deformation, causing it to become permanently elongated. Traditionally, torque specs are calculated to keep fasteners within their elastic range because maximum clamp load is achieved when the bolt reaches its elastic limit, or “yield” point.
PWOC #53
2008 POWER WAGON RC

My build thread. http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... =13&t=2826 :cash: :cash:

Moab '09, '10, '12, '14.
Rausch Creek - Summer '10, Spring-Fall '11, Spring '12, Summer '13, Summer '14, Summer '15, Summer '16, Summer '17, Summer '18, Summer '20, Summer '22,
AOAA Summer '19.

Russ
NRA - Benefactor, Golden Eagle. :lockedandloaded:

NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by NickTF » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:07 pm

They have the appearance of torque to yield bolts but I have no idea if they actually are. That said, I’m still at a loss for why the two most popular suspension options for our trucks recommend so much less than the factory torque value. These are wise folks I’m sure they have their reasoning just curious as to what it is.

I could have another look at service manual but don’t believe I saw anything which would suggest the torque specs supplied were contingent on replacing the OEM track bar bolts.

User avatar
DamageWagon
Vendor
Vendor
Posts: 2303
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 am
Model Year: 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by DamageWagon » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:11 pm

That spec sounds high. I’d aim for 215 as Don specs. If you put that bolt to 300+ (if you even own the tools to do it!!!) I think it’s going to yield before then. I don’t think the factory torques it to that level. Heck I’ve got about a 50% failure rate doing installs on rear trackbars where the factory bolt is supposed to go to 130ftlb but it yields to failure at ~100, I keep spare hardware on hand for installs now.

ramv
500_Posts
500_Posts
Posts: 650
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:36 am

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by ramv » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:05 pm

They definitely were tight to remove! I had my IR impact on the Power Tank at 200 psi to knock them out.
2016 Laramie; 5.13s, Locker Bypass, WK sliders, 35" Toyo MT, 2Lo Kit, ProCal, Hemifever tune, Airbags/Cradles, Thuren 2.5" King w/ Boogie Bumps, Warn SDP6000

Colibri
1000_Posts
1000_Posts
Posts: 1713
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:44 pm
Model Year: 2009

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by Colibri » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:46 pm

an m16 grade 10.9 bolt torque value is about 230 ft lbs.
Central Texas and Houston area
2009 5.7 auto quadcab
Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
Custom tube bumpers and white knuckle sliders
Creative fab trussed axle. rem polished and cryoed 5.13 gears with arb lockers fr/rr
Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
Lots of other stuff lol

User avatar
DamageWagon
Vendor
Vendor
Posts: 2303
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 am
Model Year: 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by DamageWagon » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:48 pm

Colibri wrote:an m16 grade 10.9 bolt torque value is about 230 ft lbs.
The new trucks have an M18 if I remember right, fine pitch. The high torque spec would make sense then.

RustyPW
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 4:23 pm
Model Year: 2008
Location: Brownsville Pa.

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by RustyPW » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:00 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:48 pm
Colibri wrote:an m16 grade 10.9 bolt torque value is about 230 ft lbs.
The new trucks have an M18 if I remember right, fine pitch. The high torque spec would make sense then.
A 18x2.5, 10.9 is 318 ft lbs.
PWOC #53
2008 POWER WAGON RC

My build thread. http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... =13&t=2826 :cash: :cash:

Moab '09, '10, '12, '14.
Rausch Creek - Summer '10, Spring-Fall '11, Spring '12, Summer '13, Summer '14, Summer '15, Summer '16, Summer '17, Summer '18, Summer '20, Summer '22,
AOAA Summer '19.

Russ
NRA - Benefactor, Golden Eagle. :lockedandloaded:

Colibri
1000_Posts
1000_Posts
Posts: 1713
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:44 pm
Model Year: 2009

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by Colibri » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:45 pm

Hot damn, I didn’t realize they upsized to an m18. Nice!
Central Texas and Houston area
2009 5.7 auto quadcab
Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
Custom tube bumpers and white knuckle sliders
Creative fab trussed axle. rem polished and cryoed 5.13 gears with arb lockers fr/rr
Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
Lots of other stuff lol

User avatar
Reloaderguy
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:06 am
Model Year: 2016
Location: Central Oregon

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:14 pm

Which one of you wants to be the first to put 300lbft on those bolts?

RustyPW
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 4:23 pm
Model Year: 2008
Location: Brownsville Pa.

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by RustyPW » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:07 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:14 pm
Which one of you wants to be the first to put 300lbft on those bolts?
You're late to the party. Been there, done that. 315 ft lbs on the 16mm. That's what my Snap-On torque wrench said. :lol:
PWOC #53
2008 POWER WAGON RC

My build thread. http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... =13&t=2826 :cash: :cash:

Moab '09, '10, '12, '14.
Rausch Creek - Summer '10, Spring-Fall '11, Spring '12, Summer '13, Summer '14, Summer '15, Summer '16, Summer '17, Summer '18, Summer '20, Summer '22,
AOAA Summer '19.

Russ
NRA - Benefactor, Golden Eagle. :lockedandloaded:

User avatar
olyelr
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 3658
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:00 pm
Model Year: 2016
Location: Kewadin, MI

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by olyelr » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:06 am

RustyPW wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:07 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:14 pm
Which one of you wants to be the first to put 300lbft on those bolts?
You're late to the party. Been there, done that. 315 ft lbs on the 16mm. That's what my Snap-On torque wrench said. :lol:
Jeezuz fawk, snapon pfffffff.
2016 Ram Power Wagon Laramie - Granite Crystal Metallic - Ramboxes - 35” AT3W - TazerRAM

:patriot:

User avatar
olyelr
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 3658
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:00 pm
Model Year: 2016
Location: Kewadin, MI

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by olyelr » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:06 am

Ffffffffffffffff. Pfffffffffffff.
2016 Ram Power Wagon Laramie - Granite Crystal Metallic - Ramboxes - 35” AT3W - TazerRAM

:patriot:

User avatar
DamageWagon
Vendor
Vendor
Posts: 2303
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 am
Model Year: 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by DamageWagon » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:15 pm

RustyPW wrote:
Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:14 pm
Which one of you wants to be the first to put 300lbft on those bolts?
You're late to the party. Been there, done that. 315 ft lbs on the 16mm. That's what my Snap-On torque wrench said. :lol:
What did the Snap-Off bolt head say?

RustyPW
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 4:23 pm
Model Year: 2008
Location: Brownsville Pa.

Re: 2014+ Track Bar Bolt Torque Spec 280+ - 320+???

Post by RustyPW » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:57 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:15 pm
RustyPW wrote:
Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:14 pm
Which one of you wants to be the first to put 300lbft on those bolts?
You're late to the party. Been there, done that. 315 ft lbs on the 16mm. That's what my Snap-On torque wrench said. :lol:
What did the Snap-Off bolt head say?
Click-'click
PWOC #53
2008 POWER WAGON RC

My build thread. http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... =13&t=2826 :cash: :cash:

Moab '09, '10, '12, '14.
Rausch Creek - Summer '10, Spring-Fall '11, Spring '12, Summer '13, Summer '14, Summer '15, Summer '16, Summer '17, Summer '18, Summer '20, Summer '22,
AOAA Summer '19.

Russ
NRA - Benefactor, Golden Eagle. :lockedandloaded:

Post Reply