Steering Box Slop - 2015

If it's about Power Wagons, all generations, this is where it'll go. This is the original PWR Forum Power Wagon Technical Discussion Section. And this includes everything that doesn’t fit in any one of the other categories related to the truck goes here!
Post Reply
NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by NickTF » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:50 pm

I been chasing a noise or two for a bit and noticed today that if I grab the steering shaft near the steering box I can rotate it by hand about 45-50 degrees with a nice clunk at the end of rotation. Are the steering boxes in these trucks adjustable on the truck? I saw a video of what looked like a pre 2013 truck where the box could be adjusted.

I've got some of the EMF steering column bushings (see link) to press into the pin area in the shaft under the dash as that's worn out but I don't think the movement I noticed under the hood is because of the pins.

https://emfballjoints.com/collections/d ... ft-bushing

User avatar
DamageWagon
Vendor
Vendor
Posts: 2145
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 am
Model Year: 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by DamageWagon » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:21 pm

However much you can rotate the shaft at the box should be how much it moves at the steering wheel. Are you feeling a clunk when you turn the wheel that much?

I have play in my steering wheel of about 5 degrees maybe. I think that is just how much there’s going to be, because I have a new PSC box and the EMF bushing. More than that is probably from wear.

The boxes are adjustable but I have not found it to be any real improvement, and after adjusting my old box it was only tight for about a week. I think you can only adjust once, and only adjust 1/3 turn on the screw.

Note on the EMF bushing, I did mine 1-2 weeks ago and now that it is basically a rigid connection in that joint I now hear the power steering flow any time the steering wheel has any load on it (resting your hand on it or turning). The noise is minimal but I’m not sure the tiny improvement in feel was worth the small noise increase.

User avatar
Reloaderguy
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 2144
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:06 am
Model Year: 2016
Location: Central Oregon

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:27 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:21 pm
However much you can rotate the shaft at the box should be how much it moves at the steering wheel. Are you feeling a clunk when you turn the wheel that much?

I have play in my steering wheel of about 5 degrees maybe. I think that is just how much there’s going to be, because I have a new PSC box and the EMF bushing. More than that is probably from wear.

The boxes are adjustable but I have not found it to be any real improvement, and after adjusting my old box it was only tight for about a week. I think you can only adjust once, and only adjust 1/3 turn on the screw.

Note on the EMF bushing, I did mine 1-2 weeks ago and now that it is basically a rigid connection in that joint I now hear the power steering flow any time the steering wheel has any load on it (resting your hand on it or turning). The noise is minimal but I’m not sure the tiny improvement in feel was worth the small noise increase.
The rubber joint in the intermediate shaft is a sound isolator. Ever since I added bushings to my steering 2.5 years ago I've had the flow sound. The trucks steers awesome though so I don't care about the sound.

User avatar
DamageWagon
Vendor
Vendor
Posts: 2145
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 am
Model Year: 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by DamageWagon » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:29 pm

Correct. I’ll work with it just fine. It does steer tighter.

NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by NickTF » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:56 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:21 pm
However much you can rotate the shaft at the box should be how much it moves at the steering wheel. Are you feeling a clunk when you turn the wheel that much?

I have play in my steering wheel of about 5 degrees maybe. I think that is just how much there’s going to be, because I have a new PSC box and the EMF bushing. More than that is probably from wear.

The boxes are adjustable but I have not found it to be any real improvement, and after adjusting my old box it was only tight for about a week. I think you can only adjust once, and only adjust 1/3 turn on the screw.

Note on the EMF bushing, I did mine 1-2 weeks ago and now that it is basically a rigid connection in that joint I now hear the power steering flow any time the steering wheel has any load on it (resting your hand on it or turning). The noise is minimal but I’m not sure the tiny improvement in feel was worth the small noise increase.
I can hear a pop and my buddy traced the noise by touching the steering brace and feeling it there. He didn't feel the noise or see anything else super obvious although my track bar does have some movement in frame side bushing (2015 oem bar with 62,000 miles on clock about 30,000 with 37s on the front). I removed the steering brace (DOR Brace) and the noise is still there albeit less (have to be driving now to get the noise, with brace on the noise would happen while sawing wheel back and forth with truck stationary). I have a clunking noise that's separate which I believe is the track bar but want to weed out everything cheaper first.

User avatar
DamageWagon
Vendor
Vendor
Posts: 2145
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 am
Model Year: 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by DamageWagon » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:58 pm

Make sure your trackbar bolts are TIGHT, both of them. Also check that your trackbar heim has no play and that the bushing play isn’t excessive. That clunk sounds like a loose trackbar bolt more than anything.

NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by NickTF » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:07 pm

210 ftlbs. Track bar OEM.

NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by NickTF » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:45 pm

Looked a bit closer looks like there is some minimal play in the steering shaft u joint. There is supposed to be absolutely none correct?

User avatar
DamageWagon
Vendor
Vendor
Posts: 2145
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 am
Model Year: 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by DamageWagon » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:47 pm

Should be zero play in the u-joint in the steering input shaft

NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by NickTF » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:24 pm

Any upgrade options for 2014+ intermediate steering shaft or just OEM?

User avatar
DamageWagon
Vendor
Vendor
Posts: 2145
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 am
Model Year: 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by DamageWagon » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:04 pm

To confirm, which joint is it? There is a joint under the dash that regularly gets play in the connection between the shaft and the u-joint housing, but not in the u-joint itself.

I am not aware of any upgrade shafts for your year, I think Mopar is the best option unless someone has a reference to an upgrade part?

NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by NickTF » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:13 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:04 pm
To confirm, which joint is it? There is a joint under the dash that regularly gets play in the connection between the shaft and the u-joint housing, but not in the u-joint itself.

I am not aware of any upgrade shafts for your year, I think Mopar is the best option unless someone has a reference to an upgrade part?
The joint in engine bay. See the link below for a pic of joint I noticed play in.

https://www.stockwiseauto.com/mopar-050 ... 1633f25721&

NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by NickTF » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:09 pm

Don suggested wrapping steering intermediate shaft with a bungee cord and tying it off to rule shaft out as noise. Shaft wasn’t source. Will jack truck up and look for play in wheel if none going to throw a thuren track bar at it and see.

User avatar
Bigdodge
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:18 pm

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by Bigdodge » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:46 pm

I believe there is a tsb for body mounts for 2015. It will cause a knocking sound

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by NickTF » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:51 pm

Bigdodge wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:46 pm
I believe there is a tsb for body mounts for 2015. It will cause a knocking sound

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
I performed this TSB about 3-4 weeks ago. Thanks though! :cheers:

User avatar
Bigdodge
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:18 pm

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by Bigdodge » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:15 am

Ah, it's probably u that I learned it from then lol. Carry on

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by NickTF » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:21 pm

Thuren track bar in no more clunk on compression.

NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by NickTF » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:22 pm

Still have clunk/pop when turning. If anyone has two minutes grab intermediate shaft of their steering at joint just behind steering box and let me know if you can feel any movement at all. See link several posts above for picture of intermediate shaft.

User avatar
Oilbrnr
50_Posts
50_Posts
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 7:26 pm
Model Year: 2016
Location: Flagstaff & Scottsdale, Arizona

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by Oilbrnr » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:17 pm

Hey (Nick?), yes, I got movement. Probably the cause of the feeling that I get in the wheel. I can defiantly feel a bit 'o slack in certain situations. It has not progressed that I can tell. 45k on the clock. Doesn't seem to be the U joint, more like the splines out of the gearbox.
2016 Thuren 3.0/2.5 and stabilizer, F/R tracks, Front springs, OEM/AirLift-Daystar rear.
1997 LX450 - locked

NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by NickTF » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:48 pm

Thanks!

User avatar
PWJouster
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 336
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:44 am
Model Year: 2018

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by PWJouster » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:34 am

Installed the EMF bushing and noticed the improvement in stiffness as well as road feedback to the steering wheel. Welcomed changes.

But i now have the Fluid rushing sound from the power steering system.
i asked EMF tech about it, and mentioned that i thought the rubber might be isolating, but they claimed ney.

the powersteering/hydroboost line has a liner in it that will work its way into the firewall side port. I have yet to check the line itself, but the videos i see on youtube sound similar and make it obvious that there is a liner that will create a hazard if swallowed by the system.

anyone ever dig into this?
about to make some changes into my steering system as i cant stand the lash/play in the wheel.
2018 Powerwagon-6.4 Hemi
Nanny kill switch and Locker Bypasses
Thuren Tuned King 3.0 & 2.5 Pintop Stage 3/2
17 Method NV-Toyo RT 35
Evo On-Demand Swaybar Disconnect
S&B Intake-Mufflex-Magnaflow/resonator delete
SPOD
On-Board air ARB CKMTA12
Baja design and Rigid Industries
Purple Cranium Spider dif guards
Pedal Commander

User avatar
DamageWagon
Vendor
Vendor
Posts: 2145
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 am
Model Year: 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by DamageWagon » Fri May 24, 2019 1:15 am

I got the same power steering noise from my EMF bushings. They are absolutely the cause. For the very very very minimal improvement I gained in steering tightness I wish that I had not installed them. Hearing the fluid flow that loud constantly is annoying sometimes.

The liner they’re talking about I believe only exists on Cummins trucks. It can pop loose, generally from off-road use, and is very easy to yank out of it breaks free. Removing it seems to have no ill effects as I’m told.

User avatar
Reloaderguy
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 2144
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:06 am
Model Year: 2016
Location: Central Oregon

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by Reloaderguy » Fri May 24, 2019 6:18 pm

It's not just the EMF bushing, any insert you install will make the same noise. I had air hose in the joint before the EMF bushings and it caused the same sound. My truck wandered all over the road before I installed the bushings.

User avatar
DamageWagon
Vendor
Vendor
Posts: 2145
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 am
Model Year: 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Steering Box Slop - 2015

Post by DamageWagon » Fri May 24, 2019 7:32 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:It's not just the EMF bushing, any insert you install will make the same noise. I had air hose in the joint before the EMF bushings and it caused the same sound. My truck wandered all over the road before I installed the bushings.
They aren’t very removable

Post Reply