Battery question

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JFordBronco
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Battery question

Post by JFordBronco » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:45 am

Cold weather folks...
My original battery in my 15 is getting noticeably weaker. What battery do y’all recommend for northern winters?
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machete-lc
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Re: Battery question

Post by machete-lc » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:12 am

I just replaced mine on my 15. Not sure if it will work out well but I got this Continental AGM battery at my local distributer: https://www.continentalbattery.com/products/485

It's numbers were really good and the price ($175) was excellent compared to similar AGM batteries.

Something I noticed that may effect your decision is that there is an easily removed spacer clip at the back of the battery. If removed you could put in a battery that is much longer than the 94R series. From what it looks like you could put in a 49 series battery which typically have much better CCA and reserve capacity. Here is the AGM 49 series from Continental: https://www.continentalbattery.com/products/487

It appears that the terminals are in the right place. I do not know for sure this will work but may be worth looking into. I would have done it myself but with the battery "blanket" cover I couldn't see that clip that helps our box fit the 94R series.
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Re: Battery question

Post by Ducky's Dad » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:20 pm

Part of the answer is to install the largest and heaviest battery that will physically fit the truck, even if you have to change the hold-downs. Weight means lead and lead is good. Generally, you will want an AGM, but flooded lead acid (FLA) will probably last longer while producing less power at lower cost. It's a series of tradeoffs. Avoid lithium for northern winters because the current generation does not like to be charged at low temps. Read the specs on what's available to you. I like Northstar, but there are lots of others. FullThrottle batteries by FullRiver are definitely worth looking at. I just bought batteries for my PW and I ordered V-Max, mostly because they also offer true deep cycle batteries that fit my truck, even though my starting battery is a dual purpose. In Group 31, V-max dual purpose (starting and deep cycle) have slightly better capacity than most of the other brands in that size. I don't know yet how mine will hold up but they have a good rep.

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Re: Battery question

Post by TwinStick » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:37 pm

Has anyone tried to or is running dual Optima Blue top batteries, positioned sideways, in stock location ? Just curious. I have seen them in Jeeps 4Runners & FJ Cruisers.
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: Battery question

Post by Ducky's Dad » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:59 pm

Has anyone tried to or is running dual Optima Blue top batteries, positioned sideways, in stock location ? Just curious. I have seen them in Jeeps 4Runners & FJ Cruisers.
I have a pair of Optima Blue dual purpose (same as the Yellows but with extra studs) as my house batteries in the PW. They are three years old this month and they are done. Won't hold a charge for more than a day. The pair of Yellows in my old GMC have been in there for 5 or 6 years and are doing just fine. Same chemistry, same construction (except for the extra studs), but totally different results.

Before I installed my first G31 Odyssey in the PW I looked into mounting a pair of 34s side by side in the stock location. Just couldn't make it work on my '05. Three new batteries going into the PW this weekend and none of them are Odyssey or Optima.

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Re: Battery question

Post by TwinStick » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:42 pm

:popcorn:
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: Battery question

Post by BoldAdventure » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:41 am

TwinStick wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:37 pm
Has anyone tried to or is running dual Optima Blue top batteries, positioned sideways, in stock location ? Just curious. I have seen them in Jeeps 4Runners & FJ Cruisers.
I'd love to see this two. Might have to talk with DamageWagon.
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Re: Battery question

Post by DamageWagon » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:21 pm

I have more and more come to really love a high quality single battery setup. From my experience, dual battery setups have the disadvantage that when one battery dies it kills the other one too. A really nice, big capacity AGM would be ideal for most users. Lead acid has minor perks in limited settings but if you drive a lot of gravel, washboard, or high speed, I’d stick with AGM to have a better internal construction more resilient to fatigue.

Optima batteries are total garbage, I’ve had three Yellowtops die in the last 2 years. One bulged, one wouldn’t hold charge, one was audibly boiling. There’s much better options than Optima.

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Re: Battery question

Post by Ducky's Dad » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:09 pm

From my experience, dual battery setups have the disadvantage that when one battery dies it kills the other one too.
Does not happen if they are properly isolated. Mine are always isolated when the truck is off, unless I set the switch to combine them. I only combine them when off if I want to charge all three simultaneously on shore power. When the truck is running, I can choose isolated or combined.

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Re: Battery question

Post by KevinABQ » Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:01 am

Ducky's Dad wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:09 pm
Does not happen if they are properly isolated. Mine are always isolated when the truck is off, unless I set the switch to combine them. I only combine them when off if I want to charge all three simultaneously on shore power. When the truck is running, I can choose isolated or combined.
How do you isolate them?
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Re: Battery question

Post by Reloaderguy » Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:48 am

Ducky's Dad wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:09 pm
From my experience, dual battery setups have the disadvantage that when one battery dies it kills the other one too.
Does not happen if they are properly isolated. Mine are always isolated when the truck is off, unless I set the switch to combine them. I only combine them when off if I want to charge all three simultaneously on shore power. When the truck is running, I can choose isolated or combined.
My charge relay isolates and charges my dual batteries automatically.
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Re: Battery question

Post by DamageWagon » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:15 am

In theory you’re correct. My personal experience having two isolated batteries fry each other disproved that for me. If your batteries are isolated, they still connect when charging, which is the entire time you’re driving. If you have a manual switch and leave them disconnected and only connect them under heavy load or cold starting, thats a different story but you still have to connect them occasionally to charge the secondary.

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Re: Battery question

Post by Ducky's Dad » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:03 am

If your batteries are isolated, they still connect when charging, which is the entire time you’re driving.
I use a Painless Performance solenoid isolator, controlled from a dash toggle, and a separate Blue Seas Systems rotary switch for my three batteries. That combination allows me to isolate or combine any variation of the three batteries into starting, charging, winching, running the fridge, etc. I just added a 350amp kill switch for the starting battery so that I can disconnect it from the ECU when the truck is parked for long periods. With the starting battery killed, I can still start and drive the truck with the house batteries if I set the rest of the switches correctly. Would take a thief a while to figure out the switch combination.

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Re: Battery question

Post by Reloaderguy » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:46 am

DamageWagon wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:15 am
In theory you’re correct. My personal experience having two isolated batteries fry each other disproved that for me. If your batteries are isolated, they still connect when charging, which is the entire time you’re driving. If you have a manual switch and leave them disconnected and only connect them under heavy load or cold starting, thats a different story but you still have to connect them occasionally to charge the secondary.
The charge relay regulates charging, it doesn't just connect the bank together. I don't know what to say about your battery failures other than something wasn't right with your set up; bad alternator, bad batteries, bad charge relay, or bad wiring. But what you describe, isn't how the ACR works.
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Re: Battery question

Post by Colibri » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:10 pm

I will second the use of bluesea systems automatic charging relay for isolated dual battery systems.
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Re: Battery question

Post by DamageWagon » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:02 pm

Colibri wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:10 pm
I will second the use of bluesea systems automatic charging relay for isolated dual battery systems.
That is the system I used when both batteries fried. When charging they are both connected. A single good battery has almost all the same positives with almost none of the downsides, particularly cost.

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Re: Battery question

Post by Ducky's Dad » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:20 pm

A single good battery has almost all the same positives with almost none of the downsides, particularly cost.
A single good battery can't run a fridge in the desert without solar, and solar costs about the same as a basic dual battery system. Solar does not give you any redundancy or backup for winching. When I did my dual battery system, I thought I'd be good for a long time, but then I got the fridge. Realized then I needed either a really big second battery or a third battery. Now that I have had three batteries for the last few years, I realize I need solar and have all the parts but no time yet to install. It just never ends.

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Re: Battery question

Post by DamageWagon » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:29 pm

We lived out of the truck for 10 weeks with a fridge and used the winch many times to move trees off trails. Single battery. Never needed redundancy, more capacity, or solar. The complexity of a dual battery system is a serious thing to consider.

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Re: Battery question

Post by Ducky's Dad » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:52 pm

We lived out of the truck for 10 weeks with a fridge
But not in conditions like this:


photo 3b.JPG

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Re: Battery question

Post by RustyPW » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:38 am

Ducky's Dad wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:52 pm
We lived out of the truck for 10 weeks with a fridge
But not in conditions like this:



photo 3b.JPG
That would deep fry my butt. :jawdrop:
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Re: Battery question

Post by trk4sale » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:17 am

This is what I have: 120 watt foldable solar panel on a frame that fits on my Trac Rac rack.
The frame breaks down and is stored in a length of 3' ABS pipe on the rack. The controller is removable and stored in a duffle with the cables and stuff.
Very low profile, wind proof, and helps keep the ARB fridge in the shade.
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Re: Battery question

Post by TwinStick » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:57 pm

Here is my experience: I have a Sears Die Hard Platinum Marine (the big ass one). It has been hooked to my underhood battery since new in 2008. Battery was also used for 2 years previous in my old 2004 Ram 2500. It is not isolated, it is hooked directly with 2/0 gauge welding cable with soldered on lugs. I have had no issues. Truck is on it's second underhood battery, yet still the same 2nd battery, hooked directly to the underhood battery.

Problem with AGM or gel cell batteries are that our charging systems do not, will not keep them at or above 13.6 volts. My truck also has a 270 amp alt that puts out 199 amps at idle. It charges at up to 14.6v while driving but when stopped & i check with a volt meter, it is 12.5-.8v . So, while battery technology has certainly gotten better, new vehicles simply can not keep them charged properly.

I think the way i run my system is the best & cheapest way to go. Underhood battery is the weak one, so it will go first & I can live with that. My winch works SO MUCH better with 2 batteries. No solenoids to fail, no switches to fail. Simple, easy peasy. I do have a 350 amp Anderson Power Pole quick disconnect on it with a handle. Just yank it & you are back to just the underhood battery.

This may not be the best way to go for anyone else, but it has worked for me thus far, like a champ. I also have a 2000/4000 watt HF inverter in the back of my truck. It also works SO MUCH better with 2 batteries.

We had 2 solar panels & a charge controller on our last camper. Controller failed, resulting in both batteries being overcharged & boiling the water out of them, even though i topped them off before winter storage. Both batteries were destroyed as a result, which is where i lost my trust in anything automatic with switches or sensors. KISS is an acronym for Keep it simple stupid, that we learned in the Army. More often than not, it seems to be the way to go.
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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